lambriar kennels

i've just come from a dog show where one of the oes participants asked me what kennel my dog came from...my dog was obtained for family pet and i am now thinking of showing her...i checked her paperwork and have found out that she comes from lambriar kennels....i've research and have found that this place is getting slandered because it is a puppy mill....i am distraught because now i am afraid to tell anyone; not sure if puppy mill or not...does any one have anything to say about this...i love my dog and she is in excellent health per my vet so...do i worry??
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I'm sorry I don't know anything about that particular kennel but just wanted to offer you my support. You didn't have the previous knowledge and your pup is now in a good home. Don't beat yourself up over it, you've provided one pup a happy home.

Good luck
Marianne
The word "puppy mill" is used a bit too much. I am not familiar with the breeder either, but it doesn't matter.
If you have papers, your dog is healthy and meets show standards and you want to invest the time and money, AND your dog is not spayed ... then you CAN and SHOULD show her. We need to keep all of the healthy OES in the breeding pool. If your dog is judged as of show quality that will enhance the breed even more. If you travel around enough to place in the big shows you will not only have PROVEN the worth of your dog but increased the value of any off spring she may have.

I wouldn't worry if she came from a puppy mill. What matters is if you are up to the show challenges and if your dog meets all of the criteria.

A lot of breeders classify a lot of other breeders as puppy mils, backyard breeders and other contemptious labels for reasons only known for sure by themselves. Showing a dog with proper documentation and conformaton is the ultimate show of support any dog breed can have ... and it really needs to be nurtured.
I have no time for it, but if you do ... go for it. Increasing the number of good breeding lines by responsible owners and breeders is needed to secure a well-rounded amount of genes in the OES's gene pool.
Just make sure to do your research and ask more questions about the specifics. There are links to show guide lines and resources ... just do a search here and at google or yahoo. I will never support indiscriminant breeding, so be a good owner and make sure you know what you are doing before breeding her. Make sure she's at least 2 years old and you have buyers lined up before you breed her. It is only fair to your dog and her pups, not to mention yourself.
And if you fear recriminations, just don't mention her immediate breeder, but buy a copy of her pedigree from wherever she is registered (AKC) and use one of her linage's bloodlines ---especially if there is a champion bloodline in her background. People do that with horses all of the time.
I have had a very similar experience with Drake. The breeder I got Drake from was the topic of many post on the OES list and here. I did not find the experience I had with my breeder to be the same as what others may have had. When we got Drake he was a very healthy, well socialized puppy. Even my Vet commented on how well Drake had been taken care. Even so I too have been a little timid about stating where I got Drake from because I would just rather avoid the confrontations. I wish you the best of luck and hope you are proud of your OES no matter what. I know I am. 8)
according to her paperwork there are no champions..i also read that the kennel "fudges" the paperwork; not sure in which manner, ie: health or breed line. But in looking at the dogs at the show my dog looks up to breed standard and as good as those dogs..so im not that worried..just when you sign them up for shows all that info is documented for registering- breeder name/kennel name... so i will take it slow...she is not spayed so..

thanks for all your support guys..i love my molly dog show or no dog show!!
I would recommend having someone who knows judging conformation give you some advice about whether Molly is show quality before you jump in! It's a lot of hard work, time and money to invest! The grooming alone would be enough to turn me away! :)

Do you know anyone that shows OES that may be able to give you some advice - but that won't turn their nose up??? Just be prepared to hear what they have to say! We all love our OES - no matter where they came from - but they all don't meet show standards! Even ones from reputable breeders - with champion lines!

In terms of the puppy mill - if it's discussed as a puppy mill that openly - it probably is (that's my experience anyway). But, that doesn't mean that you should be ashamed. Just chalk it up to not researching the breeder and thank your lucky stars that everything is okay with your dog! (That's what I do!) :)
In the UK The Kennel club list the breed standards on their internet site. They are at http://www.the-kennel-club.org.uk/ It's an interesting site with photo's all sorts of unusual breeds. Check it out if you get the chance. The OES is listed in the Pastoral group. I don't know if the AKC has a similar service.

If your dog is in good health, is of breed standard and you want to show her then go ahead. Don't be put off by what you think others may be saying. I'll wager they don't have the courage to speak up and if they do tell them what your experiance of the breeder was. Let your pup do the talking in the ring.

I would very much like to show if Phoebe...If only there were more hours in a day! Good luck whatever your decision.
Hello,

A very nice lady I have met at a dog show Allene Black of Gwynedd OES's. I think I spelled that right. Anyway, she has been very great about giving me great advice. Her email has recently changed to oesgwynedd@msn.com I wish you all the best. I have wanted to show, but with 2 young children I can't right now, but I hope that later in life I will be able to. Stormi and co.
stormi wrote:
A very nice lady I have met at a dog show Allene Black of Gwynedd OES's.


WOW What an introduction! :P I do remember you, and Stormi. I will be coming back to your neck of the woods this summer with Duncan and a New little girl "Delilah (or Donut)" get it..... Dunk 'n Donut.. okay bad joke my husband loves it. I really look forward to seeing you again.

First, what a great forum! Thank you Ron! Let me start out by saying I have been owned, showing and breeding (somewhat less in the years) since 1974. My very first OES came from a couple in Albuquerque NM after a well known breeder refused to sell me a puppy! (I didn't know who she was back then so that doesn't matter). I wanted an OES so bad and as most of you, I didn't want to 'wait' and 'do my homework'. I should have. This boy was such a horrible breeding with many many many health problems. However, he was MY BABY and went to classes in my backpack at UNM and we loved each other. My next 2 oes were showdogs bought from a VERY well known Breeder and BOTH ended up having severe Hip dysplasia and no apologies nor compensation back. I know have 3 champions in my home. 2 Imported from the U.K., and another I bred and finished from the Bred By Exhibitor Class myself! I am so vey proud of this boy. I have also put more titles on him and he is an International/Mexican/American Champion with a Canine Good Citizen. We are going to the Euro OES show in Switzerland in May and back to Mexico for his Latin American Championship and to Canada for the Canadian. I am not bragging here (well maybe a little) but to show you what YOU can do to.

I have read your posts and would like to make a few comments. Yes it is true that not all dogs that are BYB or Puppymill bred should not be shown. With that said, AHEMMMM if you intend to show, you MUST have thick skin and be willing to listen to a LOT of people tell you your dog is not of "quality" and you should buy from a reputible breeder.
Yes, you own the dog and have every right to show it. But it will be a very long row and hard to boot. You need someone to mentor you and show you the ropes so to speak. Grooming and trimming are the 2 key essential parts before you EVER get into the ring! And most people are not willing to help, unless you buy one of their dogs. I found this out when I came back into showing after a hiatus due to husbands profession at the time. I had imported my 2 from the UK and they "looked different". Didn't make them wrong. In fact Rosie is my 1st Champion. They came from a very impressive bloodline in the UK but no one liked her because a) she was different b) they didnt know WHO I was and c) I didn't buy her from them.

I will always, no, let me change that ALWAYS help newcomers. You may not like what I have to tell you about your dog saying that it is not 'show material' but I will NOT lie to you to get you to buy one of my pups. (I have one every 2 or 3 years maybe). I will assist you at a show if you really want to show. All you need do is ask me. I am in Colorado or I could put you in touch with someone in your area that perhaps would give you an honest opinion of your dog and not try to do the above to you.

Thanks for your time. And good luck!!
Ali
Hi Ali,i just ordered a pedigree on my Shaggy.He has Pelajilo,Banbury,Fezziwig and numberous more championship bloodlines.He is 3 yrs.old.Ofa certified.I live in Louisiana.Are there dog shows in my parts of the woods?Will you tell us any bloodlines in your sheepies?Thanks,Robin
Hi,

I have agreed with my new puppy's breeder to try and enter the show circuit with the new pup if he makes the 6 month cut.

She is completely encouraging me to pursue it as there are not a lot of young people showing the OES's currently. So much so, that she is connecting me to a person locally that shows OES's to help me with the grooming as I would always send my last dog to the groomers rather than do it myself. This breeder has had 2 of her dogs win best of breed in Westminster 2x's. She has also told me that people will poo poo me when I mention her kennel name. Apparently it is just the way of the "show world" as I understand from her.

My breeder has suggested attending some of the local shows (without my pup) to see what showing is all about.

Not only is it a lot of work if you really decide to make a go of it, but it also costs a lot of money travelling around and if your dog does well you should probably consider hiring a handler. Your reward from winning these shows is owning a champion. There is really no monetary gain this way unless you plan on breeding or maybe if you are winning the national shows.

I would say definitely jump right in and see if your dog makes the cut. And as the other people have spoken on your post, as long as your goal is to preserve the correct & healthy aspects of what an OES should be, then that is all that matters.

I am sorry you are hearing bad things about your breeder. Hopefully the breeder has the health & temperament of their dogs as a priority first and foremost whether they are labelled as a puppy mill or not.

Here is also a link to some specific traits of an OES showdog here in the US http://www.cruiserdog.com/judgel/

Good luck!
As one who knows Ali, she would be very helpful. I too was put off from exhibition because the first questions asked me was "Whose dogs do you have?" I realize that's show lingo, but to me it was a big TurnOff. I don't have the thick skin required for showing, but love to attend.

bb
I was really glad to find this topic, as showing my oes pup when she is older is all I can think about lately... it has been a plan since before her mother was even bred, and she was carefully selected from her litter with the advice of 2 of the breeders involved in her bloodlines. I am absolutely in love with her, and even if she is never shown or cannot ever be bred I don't care, first and foremost she is my baby girl.... but, it is a dream, and has been a long time, to show, and hopefully someday breed oes.
I have shown before, my great dane did very well in the show ring, despite the fact that she came from a 'new' breeder, and half of the people at the show liked the bloodlines she came from, half didn't. Dog shows are very political, and people at them can be very nasty, or absolutely wonderful and helpful and encouraging.
But as I said in another post, a great danes grooming needs are nothing compared to an oes, and I am sooo nervous about being able to learn how to groom Dancer for show. I had no problems grroming my first oes Micaela, she loved it, but she was never shown. I clipped her a couple of times a year, kept her well brushed and mat free when she was in full coat, and did her nails and ears etc, though she did not have as much hair in her ears as Dancer does. Grooming for show I think is going to take a LOT of learning and practice, and then there is the training involved to make sure she walks properly, matching my gait with hers, teaching her the 'stance' and not to sit or lay down in the ring, and teaching her to be calm when someone strange is running their hands all over, poking around looking at teeth etc.... I know that there is a lot of work, time, effort and money that goes into showing a dog, and especially an oes, but I am excited and looking forward to it. The breeder I got Dancer from has not shown her own dogs in a long time, she has been busy with her two legged family for some time, and lives enough of a drive away that it's not convenient to go see her often, so I am hoping I can get the help I'm going to need over the phone and the net, from experienced breeders who, like ali, are willing to help.
We're also lucky to have this site!
Lambriar Kennel is one of the largest suppliers of puppies to pet stores across the country. They are top producers for the Hunte Corporation which is the largest puppy broker.

You are very lucky that your dog is healthy. I am sure that he is lovely, but it is highly unlikely that he is show dog material.
In answer to the initial question, Lambriar is owed by the Hunte coropration (a.k.a. H&H): http://www.thehuntecorporation.com/details.aspx and is owned by Andrew Hunte.

Lambriar is a "broker" or a middleman between commercial dog breeders and pet stores. There are press reports that speculate Hunte buys upwards of 900 puppies each week at its facilities in Goodman and Elkland. It is said that most weeks Hunte has about 50 breeds available. After they receive puppies from the commercial breeders. Hunte says: "Besides at least two physical exams the animals are given any necessary vaccinations or medicines and are fed a diet intended to help them through the stressful days of confinement and shipment." Each of their dogs is registered with the AKC and is groomed. For the most part, Lambrier buys their puppies from mills

Lambrier is also a store for animal supplies: http://www.lambriarvet.com/

As for showing conformation, Ali's post was very sound-- showing has complicated politics. Have you also considered showing hour dog in obedience or agility? Hardly anyone cares about the dogs' lineage, just their ability to perform.

Best wishes in the show ring if you are so inclined.
my 2 cents:

puppy mills will continue to make dogs because they will continue to sell.

as long as you provide a happy home and good training for your dog, its not where he came from that matters, its how well he is behaved.

let them turn their noses up to your breeder, thats fine, it will just make your show victory that much more rewarding :-)

best of luck in getting best in show. 8) 8) 8) 8)
ed wrote:
my 2 cents:

puppy mills will continue to make dogs because they will continue to sell.

as long as you provide a happy home and good training for your dog, its not where he came from that matters, its how well he is behaved.

let them turn their noses up to your breeder, thats fine, it will just make your show victory that much more rewarding :-)

best of luck in getting best in show. 8) 8) 8) 8)



They wouldn't continue to sell if people refused to buy from them! Everyone can make a difference!

Research your breeder and ensure that they follow strict ethical guidelines and perform suggested health testing prior to breeding! It's the best chance you can give your dog!

Please realize that I'm not turning my nose up at puppy mill dogs - I have one who I love to death!!! - I'm turning my nose up at puppy MILLS!

National Geographic did a special about puppy mills - I wish everyone could have seen it - it was extremely eye opening!!!!

Kristen
It certainly matters where your dog came from. Responsible breeders do all the necessary medical testing to help produce a healthy litter and the first things is temperment. Breeders sit and go over the pedigree's of the potential sheepie parents. Proper breeding could eliminate some medical problems in the OES. Puppy mills do not do all that background checking and medical checking. They count on the money that they can make.
I have a boxer I got at the pet shop that came from Lambriar kennels in KSS. is that the same kennel you are refering too. I love my boxer and wish I could get another one from them. What info do you have on them, is it bad?
Hey! Let the shows began!!!!
i'm also wondering about lambriar kennels - i bought my schnauzer from a puppy store . They lied and told us he was from a breeder. I found out shortly after that he was from lambriar through a friend. He has a behavior problem when people (particularly men) come in my house. He is high strung when alot of people are around. We had to bring him to a trainer for his behavior. We also contemplated giving him to the schnauzer rescue, but we fell in love with him right away. I would love to get in touch with the breeder that is listed on my paperwork that sold him to lambriar who sold him to the puppy store. even though we would never think about getting rid of him because we have him 2yr. already, i would never go to another puppy store to buy a pet! I can see a definate difference between him and other dogs. We love him anyhow!
Lambriar Kennels is a puppy broker, they buy pups from breeders in kansas and MO etc lots of them from puppy mills, they have nothinh to do will breeding they just resell the pups to stores all over the US, the name of the breeder should also be on your papers.
Fritzi wrote:
In answer to the initial question, Lambriar is owed by the Hunte coropration (a.k.a. H&H): http://www.thehuntecorporation.com/details.aspx and is owned by Andrew Hunte.

Lambriar is a "broker" or a middleman between commercial dog breeders and pet stores. There are press reports that speculate Hunte buys upwards of 900 puppies each week at its facilities in Goodman and Elkland. It is said that most weeks Hunte has about 50 breeds available. After they receive puppies from the commercial breeders. Hunte says: "Besides at least two physical exams the animals are given any necessary vaccinations or medicines and are fed a diet intended to help them through the stressful days of confinement and shipment." Each of their dogs is registered with the AKC and is groomed. For the most part, Lambrier buys their puppies from mills

Lambrier is also a store for animal supplies: http://www.lambriarvet.com/

As for showing conformation, Ali's post was very sound-- showing has complicated politics. Have you also considered showing hour dog in obedience or agility? Hardly anyone cares about the dogs' lineage, just their ability to perform.

Best wishes in the show ring if you are so inclined.



To agree with sc Lambriar Kennels is a PUPPY BROKER .

Two Points:

Lambriar Animal Health Care www.lambriarvet.com is a seperate company owned by Doug Lambert.

The Hunte Corporation does not own Lambriar Kennels but competes with them in this market.
Yes, Lambriar is a Puppy Broker. And not connected to Hunte Corp. I bought a puppy from a pet store at 3:00 pm and we had to take him to the emergency vet at 7:30 pm, same day.

It turns out that he had Giardia, Mange and Kennel Cough! The vet would not state for sure that he came this way from Lambriar. Just smiled when I made mention that the pet store could not hve given him all of this. The same was done by our own vet when we took him in on Monday. The bill for both vets., came to $240.00!

They say that all dogs are checked by vets before they come to the stores. I do not believe that for one second. The store says that they see their vet before selling them to make sure the dogs are fine. If so, then the vet would have known that our dog had all of these medical problems. And store could not have sold the dog until he was healed, so I do not believe that either!

A month and a half later, the same vet that was to have checked our baby, was found to have said he checked a dog our friend bought the day after she bought it and again four days later. Plus have given two different shots to the dog! Nice going. So the rule here is to not buy from a Pet Store at all. Find a breeder in your area or close to you. Go and Check out the dogs they have. Make sure the Sire and Dam are on the premises. They won't let you come to the house or do not have the Sire and Dam, DON'T BUY THE DOG!
Lambriar Kennel is a middle man but not all the puppies that they buy are AKC or Reg. they buy the cheapes puppy out of the litter. They do buy their puppies from backyard breeders. And Most all pet stores buy there puppies from backyard breeders.(puppy mills)
Lambriar Kennels is less than 40 miles from where I live and so I know some things that others would not. First, they are NOT a pully mill. They are a broker who buys puppies from breeders across the country and then sells them to pet stores everywhere. They have a wonderful facitly and the dogs are well cared for. My personal vet also works as there vet. They are fully checked and the guidlines for them to be sent to a pet store are strict. If they have anything physically wrong with them or their size is not right, they are offered back to the breeder or put on a list for locals looking for that breed. I personally have a Yellow lab that I got from there this past February. He came from a breeder in Iowa. He has a URI when he was supposed to go to a pet store, and by the time he was well, he was too big. The breeded would not take him back, and so I paid $32 for him. You do not get any papers and must agree to not sell, or breed the dog. What you are paying for is the shots and the microchip. Some people have mentioned that they have problems with dogs they have gotten from Lambriars, but that is only the fault of the breeder. You got your OES from a great "BROKER" and that is nothing to be ashamed of.
I paid way to much for our puppy. I had promised my daughter I would by her a Min Pin. After searching for breeders in our state, I found that our dog Chipper Doo was expensive but or favorite choice. He is now two and a half and housebroken and pure delight. He is and has always been extremly loyal, well behaved, obediant and perfect for us. He is a little taller than the requirements for showing, but one of the best dogs we have ever owned! I was sorry to hear that someone purchased a puppy and had to take it to the vet a couple of hours later, perhaps the pet store is to blame. I usually wouldn't buy from a pet store, however he was the puppy my daughters chose and we have been 100% in love with him for the years we have had him. I bought a Ragdoll cat some years back from one of the top breeders in the country and many of her relatives are showing and in Cat Fancy magezine, she was not a very well mannered cat, not friendly and difficult. So I guess my point is you can't always be guarranteed a good animal breeders or pet shops or backyards!Lambriar did us right as far as I am concerned! :D :P
I have to say that back in February of 2005 I purchased a Bichon Frise (female 9 weeks old)..I named her Penelope from a pet store called Animals & Things in Woodbridge, NJ. Her records show she was brokered through Lambriar and came from a breeder by the name of Donna Zieman in Luana, Iowa. Although I was not crazy about the pet store I purchased her from, it was love at first sight. I just love her to death. She has just turned 1 year old this November. When I got her she was well socialized and very acclaimated to human companionship. I almost got the impression within the first day or so of having her that she spent time as a pet in someone's home rather than in a kennel. She was even just about trained to the potty pads to my surprise. The first time I brought her around another dog (it was a female Pug) just like she did with people she just took to the dog and started to play. As a 1 year old dog now she takes to all people and animals the same way she did as a puppy, she's not aggressive whatsoever and you can take anything right out of her mouth. From what I understand this is characteristic of this breed but I'm sure I would have experienced something negative if the breeding was bad. She has a clean bill of health (except for an infection of the ulva a few months back from licking her private area too much). I had extensive x-rays and all taken because I was aware that bladder stones were common in this breed but everything came back clean. If anyone has any more info or feedback (positive or negative) about Lambriar or Donna Zieman (the breeder) I would greatly appreciate it. I've been considering purchasing another female bichon and would consider going through Lambriar because Penelope is such a joy but I'd like to figure out whether it is the right thing to do or whether I just got lucky.
i once briefly worked in a pet store selling dogs from lambriar.

1- lambriar is the company that buys the pups from breeders and sells them to the stores, if you check the certificate somewhere on there it should mention the breeder's name and location. i used to advise people to reference that person as the breeder and not lambriar due to negative connotations on lambriar.

2- since the breeders do the breeding and not lambriar, they are technically not a puppy mill. many still view them thusly and still hold grudges with pet stores for the 1980's selling of puppy mill dogs which has essentially been outlawed.

3- this is what information i was able to obtain, you can certainly draw your own conclusions and do your own research to satisfy any questions i may have left unanswered.
Ed:Thanks for taking the time to provide feedback. Do you remember there being many complaints or problems with regards to the pets brokered to the store through Lambriar?

I may contact the breeder, I have all her info. I love animals, but in the same respect I understand capitalism as well. Some websites warn against purchasing from breeders who do it for profit and to me that's an utterly ridiculous statement...if they do it in a humane way I really don't see a problem with it...for goodness sakes I was born, raised, and remain in the NYC Metropolitan Area...without the opportunity for profit no one would be motivated to do much of ANYTHING!

I'm not intereseted in a show dog, only another healthy pet and companion for my present Bichon. I was told by my vet prior to getting her spayed that I could possibly "show" her because she is registered & extremely close to the breed ideal in size, color (pure-white), etc. My neighbor went out and got a Bichon from a breeder somewhere in Pennsylvania and although he has a great personality, the poor little thing is extremely short for the breed (he's as wide as he is tall), is mostly apricot in color, is bow legged, and is almost impossible to housebreak. He has wallpapered the walls of her kitchen several times with his little tootsie rolls. I've read through many complaints on the internet about certain stores and breeders and some are valid but there are quite a few that appear to have taken on the responsibility of a pet and weren't ready for it...you can tell by the way their feedback was written and the story behind the purchase.

I guess I just want to figure out if Lambriar is selective about the breeders they deal with. There is always going to be the possibility that one or more of the puppies from a litter are going to be sickly (it's natural selection) no matter how fine the breeding...this is something people don't understand. But when overbreeding or inbreeding is taking place and the animals are not kept in humane surroundings I do have a problem with it and don't want to purchase from a place that is dong that......what I may do is contact the breeder directly and see if she would be open to me paying a visit to see the mother and also select my own puppy from the litter....I guess this will tell me immediately whether or not I want to deal with Lambriar and this specific breeder for my next Bichon.
lyruffo wrote:
I'm not intereseted in a show dog, only another healthy pet and companion for my present Bichon. I was told by my vet prior to getting her spayed that I could possibly "show" her because she is registered & extremely close to the breed ideal in size, color (pure-white), etc. My neighbor went out and got a Bichon from a breeder somewhere in Pennsylvania and although he has a great personality, the poor little thing is extremely short for the breed (he's as wide as he is tall), is mostly apricot in color, is bow legged, and is almost impossible to housebreak. He has wallpapered the walls of her kitchen several times with his little tootsie rolls. I've read through many complaints on the internet about certain stores and breeders and some are valid but there are quite a few that appear to have taken on the responsibility of a pet and weren't ready for it...you can tell by the way their feedback was written and the story behind the purchase.


glad to be of help. Lambriar markets their dogs as "companion animals" while many do have champion bloodlines (very far removed) they do not have much chance for a future in shows. however, they are generally well mannered (so long as they don't go too long in those kennels) and deal well with other dogs and people. from my experience they make fine pets but generally cost more than breeder-direct dealings. ex: i got jack for X dollars. the store i worked at offered for my employee discount, a price that was over 2 times that price (X). also with most breeders you can choose which traits you want in your dog as opposed to selecting from what's in the store. the only downside is many times you cannot play with a dog from a breeder before buying since most are a far distance away.
comming from a person that ha worked in "the pet company", i do know for a fact the lambriar and hunte kennels are 2 major companies that deal with puppy mill puppies...i thank god that ur dog is great in health and everything. when i first started working at the pet company, it was during the holiday season, and we had puppies comming in like crazy...puppies from hunte and lambriar were puppies that seemed too small to be taken away from their mother and were "passing away" from parvo and hyperglocimia {sugar attack}, in 3 weeks i had 13 to 15 puppies "pass away on me. as a new kennel manager, i felt that it was my duty to say something to our general manager...of course, they thought nothing and told me, "it happens". i went online to do research on the breeders. it seems that these breeders get their puppies from puppy mills. i was discussed and shocked when i found this out. { due to the fact that i've had animals all my life and would never think of someone caging these animals up in their own fecal mater and urine. so needless to say, i resigned from my postion at the pet company and contacted the authorities.. unfortantly, nothing was done and the pet company is still open for business. so in the near future, please do not buy from this company or any other pet store, it is better and cheaper in the long run to go to a rescue or a breeder. stop puppy mills throught the u.s.
I know this is post is old, but I wanted to mention I worked for Lambriar Kennels and found them to be very competent brokers. I didn't much like the owner cuz she was kinda mean, but the workers and vets and everyone else is very caring. I only saw good things when I worked there.
:lol: Be happy with your dog, that is the moust importan thing! :lol:
You are going to live with him 365 days in the year, the shows are just a few days in the year! :lol:
I currently have owned a pet store for 8 years. I sell puppies and my reputation is impeccable. Ask me any questions about puppies, the mills out west or anything and I will tell you the honest answer. There is so much the general public does not know, trust me. Would you believe that there are people that actually think that microchipping is like Lojack. They think that you can locate a lost puppy with a transponder???!?!?!?!

In any event, check out [deleted website addy]
LAMBRIAR KENNELS ISN'T A BREEDING KENNEL, PERSAY --- IT IS A BROKER THAT MARKETS DOGS TO INDIVIDUALS, BUT MOSTLY TO IN THE MALL TYPE PET STORES. IT'S A MONEY MAKING MACHINE THAT "PROUDLY BOAST" OF BEING THE LARGEST MARKETER OF PUREBRED DOGS IN THE WORLD. I KNOW THIS BECAUSE I RESCUED A RAT TERRIER THAT WAS TRACED BACK TO THERE --- HE WAS PURCHASED AT PETLAND AND HORRIBLY ABUSED BY HIS PRIOR OWNER.

SO YOU SAY THAT'S THE FAULT OF THE OWNER NOT A PUPPY MILL, RIGHT? NO, PUPPY MILLS ARE JUST OUT TO MAKE A DOLLAR, NO REPUTABLE BREEDER WOULD DUMP A LITTER AT A PET STORE FOR THE HIGHEST BIDDER -- THEY WOULD MEET AND TALK TO WHOEVER WAS ADOPTING THEIR PUPPIES AND SECURE THEM GOOD HOMES.

CHECK OUT http://imom.org/voices/ -- IT'S A SITE WITH INFORMATION ABOUT PUPPY MILLS AND BROKERS. IF BY CHANCE YOUR BABY IS HEALTHY WITH NO HEREDITARY OR CONGENITAL PROBLEMS YOU ARE VERY LUCKY --- IF BY CHANCE THE PUPPY FOUND A GOOD LOVING HOME WHERE HE'LL BE CARED FOR AND TREATED WELL THEN THAT'S EVEN LUCKIER STILL. THESE PLACES NEED TO BE STOPPED.
I have a two year old Golden Retriever that came from Lambriar. He is absolutely perfect. :-) He has the gentlest disposition and is just a joy. I verifed his bloodlines from the pedigree papers that came with him and they were valid. I wouldn't worry too much if I were you and besides wherever your dog came from he needed love and found it with you.

Kelly
As I am a big supporter of rescue organizations I have more than a few problems with obtaining a pet through "puppy mills". This type of backyard breeding should NOT be supported in any form. Which this means purchasing a pet from them. This just allows them to continue to cycle of animal cruelty. I suggest that if you have never done research on puppy mills, that you take a little time and find out what type of conditions these animals are living in. Also, the majority of the time the animals you see in the pet stores in the malls or shops are a result from puppy mills. Just take a little time and do the research on where your dog is coming from even though papers are included its the first step in breaking the cycyle!
I have had several dogs "brokered" by Lambriar. For the most part, I can say that I have never had a problem with any of them. I have had 5 or 6 dogs over the past 30 years from pet shops that got their puppies from Lambriar. I have even back-tracked and traced the original breeders and found them to be, for the most part, decent people who take good care of their dogs. I have not found any instances of these puppies coming from puppy mills, although I am SURE that many do. I cannot imagine any of their dogs being show quality, though.
Our Rough-coated Collie was purchased from Shake-A-Paw Pet Store in New Jersey. The pet store purchased the pup from Lambriar Kennels in KS who obtained the pup from Mike Geosling, the breeder from Green, MO. Our collie pup came with papers and lineage. He is AKC registered. Everyone says he's the most beautiful collie they've ever seen. His temperment is sweet and gentle. He is very friendly and affectionate with everyone, so much so, he has become a certified therapy dog and visits nursing homes, etc. He is also very intelligent. We are very pleased and have no complaints about Lambriar Kennels. As long as Lambriar Kennels get their puppies from reputable breeders, there should not be a problem. Just make sure the puppy you purchase has papers and the pup's parents are registered with the AKC.
I still maintain that petstores, puppy mills and brokers are the worst places to buy dogs from. The handfull of positive responses are not enough backing to even make that choice a vaild one. Congratulations to the few people who did not have a problem with the pups they got from these locations but they should have played the lottery with the money they spent because the chances of winning that were better than the chances of getting a good dog out of the millions of horrible animals coming out of these places.

Please visit http://www.njcapsa.org/ for more info. There are graphic pics on this site. If you just read the articles in the NJ Pet Store and News Room sections they are prett much okay. Shake-A-Paw pet store is one of the stores with the worst record and most complaints.
Megan wrote:
Our collie pup came with papers and lineage. He is AKC registered. Just make sure the puppy you purchase has papers and the pup's parents are registered with the AKC.



Actually, being AKC registered doesn't mean very much.
Hi, I have purchased a couple Poms and a couple Bichons directly from Donna Zieman. Her kennels are clean and her puppies and their parents are very well cared for. When you go into look a a pet you wish to buy, she will show you all of her puppies, tell you about their temperment etc. Her puppies are very friendly. When you purchase the puppy she will take you into her house let you watch her bathe your pet and watch her do the paper work, if you have any question she will answer them. Donna is a very nice lady, I would not hesitate to purchase more pets from her. :D :D :D


lyruffo wrote:
I have to say that back in February of 2005 I purchased a Bichon Frise (female 9 weeks old)..I named her Penelope from a pet store called Animals & Things in Woodbridge, NJ. Her records show she was brokered through Lambriar and came from a breeder by the name of Donna Zieman in Luana, Iowa. Although I was not crazy about the pet store I purchased her from, it was love at first sight. I just love her to death. She has just turned 1 year old this November. When I got her she was well socialized and very acclaimated to human companionship. I almost got the impression within the first day or so of having her that she spent time as a pet in someone's home rather than in a kennel. She was even just about trained to the potty pads to my surprise. The first time I brought her around another dog (it was a female Pug) just like she did with people she just took to the dog and started to play. As a 1 year old dog now she takes to all people and animals the same way she did as a puppy, she's not aggressive whatsoever and you can take anything right out of her mouth. From what I understand this is characteristic of this breed but I'm sure I would have experienced something negative if the breeding was bad. She has a clean bill of health (except for an infection of the ulva a few months back from licking her private area too much). I had extensive x-rays and all taken because I was aware that bladder stones were common in this breed but everything came back clean. If anyone has any more info or feedback (positive or negative) about Lambriar or Donna Zieman (the breeder) I would greatly appreciate it. I've been considering purchasing another female bichon and would consider going through Lambriar because Penelope is such a joy but I'd like to figure out whether it is the right thing to do or whether I just got lucky.
Not that this post is a good thing but it does make me feel a little bit better about SamSun. I got SamSun from a pet store. I had never heard of puppy mills until a few days ago when there was something on the news about them. I thought I was doing a good thing by purchasing SamSun from a pet store. Now I worry all the time that something bad might happen to him or his health will not be good when he gets older. I love SamSun so very much. Just posting this message makes me tear up. SamSun came from Kibbe Kennels in Kansas. I always wondered why I could never find much information about them on the internet.
I use a website called [no advertising for puppies for sale over the web]. This is a very helpful site, you can get info about breeder, location etc. , profiles of the pets, Pictures, State by State kennels, Kennels by name, Kennels by breed of dog. etc... almost anything you might need. Give it a check see what you think. This may help people in the future. Good luck.

SamSun's Mom wrote:
Not that this post is a good thing but it does make me feel a little bit better about SamSun. I got SamSun from a pet store. I had never heard of puppy mills until a few days ago when there was something on the news about them. I thought I was doing a good thing by purchasing SamSun from a pet store. Now I worry all the time that something bad might happen to him or his health will not be good when he gets older. I love SamSun so very much. Just posting this message makes me tear up. SamSun came from Kibbe Kennels in Kansas. I always wondered why I could never find much information about them on the internet.
Lambriars rule!!!!!!!! For those whom assume its a puppy mill well I must say you are wrong & those puppies are so well taken care of they get better treatment than a human. They have beautiful puppies & purchasing a puppy is no regret...
IluvNeoMastiffs wrote:
Lambriars rule!!!!!!!! For those whom assume its a puppy mill well I must say you are wrong & those puppies are so well taken care of they get better treatment than a human. They have beautiful puppies & purchasing a puppy is no regret...


Consider yourself one of the lucky ones...
Am I crazy are there a lot of guests piping up about how great this kennel is and then we don't hear anything else from them. Suspicion to me, like someone googles from that company and saw people talking about it and then go into the forum and start "a this place is great campaign."

maybe it is just me....
No, I don't think it's just you. I have noticed the same pattern.
Yes i am just a guest on your forum & I do apologize for just popping up but I do know alot about Lambriars from experience. Lambriar's is a very good place, when I said those pups get better treatment than a human, thats because they do. I feel bad for those who think negative upon Lambriars they just don't have a clue, but everyone is entitled to there own opinion, but they shouldn't judge a place when they have no idea what its even about.....
I worked at Lambriars, and my Parents still work there. And I just want to say that while it is considered a 'puppy brooker', Lambriars is very responsible with the dogs that they recieve. The dog breeders that they buy the puppies from, may not be the best in the world, but the fact of the matter is that Lambriars is atleast buying the puppies, and selling then to pet stores, so that they might be able to find a good home.

While they are at Lambriars, they are VERY well taken care of. I worked personally wth every dog that came threw the doors, sense I was the 'puppy bather' My job was to bathe the puppies, and give them human contact and love, before they were taken to the pet stores. Everyone who workes there loves animals, and every chance they get, they take the puppies out of their kennels, and play with them or pet them. If it wasn't for Lambriars, alot of people out there, wouldn't have the dogs that they love so much right now.

Lambriars is NOT a puppy mill. They people who run the place, are caring and loving, and would do everything they can, to make sure that these puppies, are well taken care of, and go to a good pet store.
Ali, thank-you so much for your reply. I too was ridiculed when other oes owners asked where where my dog came from, and I told them. Actually I was at an oes rescue function and myself , husband and my dog were put down soo bad I went back to the room and cried :( Here we traveled all that ways, to spend money at their dog rescue only to be put down :!: The breeder I got my dog from was very thorough in checking my husband and I out, she interviewed us several times over the phone, befor letting us know we could purchase the pup. I also purchased my second oes from her. I had purchased a oes several years ago from an AKC breeder referal, and OESCA refered, what a joke, he was the meanest most agressive dog I have ever had. After that oes function I mentioned earlier, I found a gentleman on this forum who has a littermate to my Murphy, he went out to their home checked them out and told me what wonderful people they were, how much they truly loved this breed, and what great care they give their dogs. If these big name breeders are only breeding. for the betterment of the breed, how come they charge so much? They have to be making alot of money. My dogs are beautiful, well behaved, and yes i have showed one when he was a pup and he did very well. My trainer can't get over what great temperaments they have, and so easy to teach. I fully understand about puppymills, and think its just horrendous the conditions these poor dogs are brought into this world in. The point I am trying to make is, people should not be so quick to judge you or your dog by where it came from :evil: :evil: It is cruel and very hurtful. thank-you again for posting.
Gemini wrote:
Lambriars is very responsible with the dogs that they recieve. The dog breeders that they buy the puppies from, may not be the best in the world, but the fact of the matter is that Lambriars is atleast buying the puppies, and selling then to pet stores, so that they might be able to find a good home.

If it wasn't for Lambriars, alot of people out there, wouldn't have the dogs that they love so much right now.

Lambriars is NOT a puppy mill. They people who run the place, are caring and loving, and would do everything they can, to make sure that these puppies, are well taken care of, and go to a good pet store.


This is a total contradiction. They know the breeders are not great, but they continue to support them by keeping them in business by purchaisng thier pups...Why? To continue to make money or cource.

They sell them to pet stores to ensure they get a good home? They have no idea who buys the pups, so they cannot care at all where they end up. The pet stores sell pups to the person who wallks in with the dollars. Lambriars doens't care who that is.

And if it wasn't for puppy brokers then there would be so many dogs in rescue. Thanks to brokers like Lambriars who continue to saturate the market with helpless puppies with many health problems, and to the pet stores who make money off the backs for the mill dogs.

Give me a break.
Bosley's mom wrote:
The pet stores sell pups to the person who wallks in with the dollars. Lambriars doens't care who that is.


You don't even have to "walk in with the dollars.. you can buy them on a payment plan"....
After reading all the posts (four pages) it appears most folks are missing the point of the original question:
If you want to show your oes - like the shoe manufacturer elequently states "Just Do It!".
As the owner/caretaker/guardian of a whole lot of sheepies over the years, we've had some that came from 'mills', some from well known breeders and some rescued. We have finished several to their championships as well as CD and CDX ratings (dating myself). But every single one of them has been well cared for and loved. Please do not mix the universal dislike of puppy mill operators with the puppies themselves and their new owners .
Yes, the show ring is filled with negativity and politics - especially from the so-called 'big names' - but take the whole show circuit with a large grain of salt. Remember always that the champion's owner (and/or handler) regards the animal as a means to an end - the betterment of the breed and a closet full of ribbons and silver.
Their sheepies may have better conformation than yours (according to the show judge on that particular day) but it does not make your sheepie is any less loved and wanted.
Sorry, I'll get off my soapbox now.
Cheers
Amen, I agree :cheer:
Show circuit aside, if folks breed their dogs but don't show them, there is no proof that they are good conformation wise...

So if that is OK with the breeder, then that very least they need to do is test the dogs for genetic defects....That is the biggest problem....Untested dogs throwing out puppies with heart-breaking defects....Very sad...
Is it really that there's no 'proof' or just that there's no certification? I'm not trying to be difficult and I agree that indiscriminate breeders do immense harm.

I do understand the need to ensure that no genetic defects are passed along, and also that the breed is maintained and strengthened. Is showing, with all the good and bad, the only way to ensure that this happens?
tgir wrote:
I do understand the need to ensure that no genetic defects are passed along, and also that the breed is maintained and strengthened. Is showing, with all the good and bad, the only way to ensure that this happens?


Bosley's Mom's point about showing, was regarding conformation, which means if the physical structure for the standard is correct. Ie., if an OES' legs are too long they physically would not be able to do their herding tasks properly which is why the OES are in existence in the first place. Or if their coat is too soft it wouldn't help the dog in inclimate weather out in the fields. I am comfortable commenting that a lot of the backyard/commercial/puppy mill breeders pay no attention to what the dog was originally bred for. Conformation is more important than most people think. If nobody paid attention to it, we would have sheepdogs out there looking more like Afghan hounds.

I also agree with Bosley's Mom that these "other" breeders really should step up to the plate & do the right thing. Here is a whole list of health issues that can occur with our breed that should not be taken lightly: http://www.oeshealth.org/

And Loried, I'm sorry that you feel the cost that ethical breeders are charging for their dogs is too much, but I assure you, none of the breeders I know from the OESCA are getting rich from breeding their dogs. You really have no idea the costs involved from showing a dog to its championship to hip xrays & other certs, stud fees, etc. Personally, I would rather pay more money up front for a dog, then worry about having to pay for a hip replacement, cancer treatment or having to put my dog down at an early age down the road. I know there aren't guarantees that your dog will be perfectly healthy, but certainly these breeders are doing everything they can. Also the OESCA is a very strict organization and they have no qualms about suspending or kicking someone out. So it's not just pay the money and then you have credentials, which is kind of how I personally view the AKC.

And Loried I'm sorry that you felt ridiculed by people from a rescue group when you mentioned where your dog was from. I think my gut reaction would be to ask why they felt that way? If they are that familiar with that broker, I am sure they have seen plenty of dogs end up in shelters from that place. I am glad your dogs are sweet & healthy but you are truly fortunate, as you can see by all the heartache on this thread. I can only hope that Lambriar, Hunte Corporation & many other of the commercial brokers that sell puppies to pet stores will eventually feel the pressure to regulate the breeders they are buying from.

I know people's feeling buying puppies in pet stores is "oh, they need a home too" but the bottom line is, by buying puppies this way, condones these unethical breeders to keep breeding sick puppies.
Verveup, My breeders dogs had all the certs. This person at the rescue function failed to ask this, and also ask about my dogs pedigree which is also impressive. This person should have done their homework before cutting me or my dogs down. I also found out I am not the only one that was talked to like that, there were many others. That is the point I was trying to make. No dog can ever be guaranteed perfect health, but you can make sure your dog has a good start by checking out the breeder, seing if the dogs have all the certs, and talk to other people who have purchased dogs from them, which I had done all that.
loried wrote:
Verveup, My breeders dogs had all the certs. This person at the rescue function failed to ask this, and also ask about my dogs pedigree which is also impressive. This person should have done their homework before cutting me or my dogs down. I also found out I am not the only one that was talked to like that, there were many others. That is the point I was trying to make. No dog can ever be guaranteed perfect health, but you can make sure your dog has a good start by checking out the breeder, seing if the dogs have all the certs, and talk to other people who have purchased dogs from them, which I had done all that.


Okay, I thought their negativity towards you was because of getting your dogs through Lambriar? I guess I'm a little lost about your connection to them. In the dog world, especially with certain kennels, there is a ton of trash talk which really stinks.
Quote:
Bosley's Mom's point about showing, was regarding conformation, which means if the physical structure for the standard is correct. Ie., if an OES' legs are too long they physically would not be able to do their herding tasks properly which is why the OES are in existence in the first place. Or if their coat is too soft it wouldn't help the dog in inclimate weather out in the fields. I am comfortable commenting that a lot of the backyard/commercial/puppy mill breeders pay no attention to what the dog was originally bred for. Conformation is more important than most people think. If nobody paid attention to it, we would have sheepdogs out there looking more like Afghan hounds.


I understand quite well what conformation is, why it is important, etc. I agree that it is very important, as is temperment, health, etc. I also agree that many breeders who do not show do not particularly care about conformation (and sometimes, health, temperment, etc.). I understand and agree that showing your dog and purchasing only from dogs who are shown is one way---perhaps the best way--to ensure that your dog is of the proper health, conformation, temperment, etc. My question is if it was the only way. It's an honest question.
I live just a few miles from Lambriar Kennels and it is not actually a breading kennel they are more like Brokers. They purchase the puppies from kennels and (puppy mills) around the country and deliver them to pet stores and other kennels around the nation. I have a cousin and a sister-in-law and one of my son'g girl friends who work there and they take very good care of their puppies and check them over carefully for deformities and birth defects. I was even offered a free puppy one time because it had hip dysplagia and they wanted a good home for it.
:x
We bought a Golden Retriever Pup from this Store Incredible Pets in Sandy Utah.
After he started to grow, we noticed he was walking funny and hopping weird.
We took him to see Dr. Anderson at S E Valley Vet.
We found at 6 months old he has hip dysphasia, and the start of osteoporosis.
The dog is kennel mill dog sold by MARY WEILER, and Sold to a Broker by the name of LAMBRIAR. They are both out of Missouri. And are in cahoots with one another.
Our dog will have to have surgery and be put on pain meds.
We found out he is not a Golden, and is sold by a breeder with no moral values. They bred the dog’s sister+brother.. Father+Daughter, and so forth.
They pop out dogs and sell them all over the states to people who are naive.
Incredible pets told us he was a PURE BRED, which he is NOT. Our doctor said he looks more like a golden doodle... which is a MUT.
Incredible pets also said he was papered, and we would have breeding rights. BIG LIE....
He is registered through some crap ACA.. Which is not recognized at all. Since he is not AKC registered he is not breed able. He has SERIOUS problems. He also has twitching and his left side of his face hangs lower then the right.
All this inbreeding has caused him to have all these problems, and will not live without major surgery, and he will have to be on pain meds for the REST OF HIS LIFE.
We paid 800.00 for this dog!! WHO IS A MUT!
We went to talk to the store manager today, and she was not there. SO we are going back in tomorrow.
I will post what the KELLY person decides to do about all this.
ABOUSELTYLY UNACCEPTABLE!
How can you sell a dog for THAT MUCH MONEY, and have him be a mutt, and you don’t even have a CLEAN BILL OF HEALTH!
I don't understand how this store can buy from such an IREPRUTABULE BREEDER!!
I really hope they will do the right thing, and take the dog and put him down.
The sad thing is, this dog was beginning to be such a BIG part of our family. My husband is DEVISTATED. My kids were crying when we found out from the doctor that the most humane thing to do would be to put him down.
How can people take animals and breed them this way!! It is inhumane! They should have to honestly PAY for this.
Incredible Pets did an awful job here. I hope Kelly will do the right thing.
As I said before I will post here tomorrow to let you know what I find out.
All I can say is, if you are buying a dog from them, MAKE SURE you find out if the dog is AKC registered, and get the PAPERS BEFORE you BUY the dog.
Or you could run into this situation here.

I am VERY disappointed in INCREDIBLE PETS.. More like DECEVING PETS.

I hope this helps someone out there.

Sincerely,

Stefanie
Is there a lengthy health guarantee from the pet store?

If not, after 6+ months you're going to have an uphill battle in getting a refund, but if you're going to try, your vet needs to write a letter saying this animal was unfit for sale. Then you'll probably have to file in Small Claims Court if they don't just give you the money back. Of course, you'd also be condemning your pet to be put to sleep.

Maybe you should look at your $800 loss as a moderately inexpensive lesson in not buying dogs from pet stores. You could try contacting the various rescues in your area and see if they can help you out and try to help you place the dog with a new family, perhaps one that could afford to pay for the surgeries if they'll even be helpful?

A quality-bred dog that has the proper genetic lines and medical tests is going to cost around $1500 or more, but the extra money is probably well worth it in reduced veterinary costs down the road.

I wish you good luck.
Stefanie , I am so sorry to read what you are going through.
As Ron has mentioned please try and contact a rescue group and see if they can find a family that may be able to help your dog.
I am sure as you said he is now a part of your family and It would be so devastating to put him down if someone was able and willing to help him.
If your Vet writes a letter about the dogs health and a rescue group can also put something in writing after they take your puppy you can go and file a suit in small claims court to get your money back.The name of the pet store would get such bad publicly .The best part is your puppy would not be just given back to the people who sold him and don't care anything about him . He will have a chance at life..


I am sure someone on this forum can help find a rescue to help........

Antoinette
If you get no satisfaction, I'd file a claim in your local small claims court... if for nothing else than the misrepresentation of the breed and fraud. Also file a complaint with the Better Business Bureau. Nothing will actually be done but at least they will be on record as having had a complaint.

Just to forewarn you, the only thing that AKC means is that-
1. Yes, it's a dog.
2. It's supposed to be of a specific breed.

I COULD have AKC registered my special needs Old English Sheepdog had wanted to. http://oesusa.com/Cleft-Palate-Puppy/cl ... -puppy.htm Her littermates were all registered. So please... don't be fooled into believing that AKC is a stamp of approval or quality. Ask the important questions and get proof of pre-testing of the parents and grandparents for conditions known to occur in the breed you love so much.

As Ron mentioned, a rescue might be willing to take this dog and provide the surgery he requires if he has a chance at a decent life. I adopted an OES over 1 1/2 years ago that was poorly breed... she came to us at 10 months of age with bad hips- http://oesusa.com/Page30.htm She's done pretty well despite the problem. Before you make any decisions about his future, please talk to a Golden Retriever rescue or get a second opinion.

I know you feel betrayed and cheated. The greed of mill and commercial breeders that purposely pump out puppies destined to suffer makes most of us sick.
The AKC does press charges for unethical breeding practices, neglect, etc., so if in fact a puppy was AKC registered, you can file a complaint with them.

Here are a bunch of people that were brought up on charges just for July:
http://www.akc.org/pdfs/about/secretary_page/0707.pdf
My question is...why in the world would anyone even consider buying a puppy from a broker instead of a reputable breeder recommended from the National Club's registry????? Whether they take good care of their puppies, breed them or just "broker" them, WHY????

Yes, people get decent puppies once and a while from these pet stores, brokers or whatever you want to call them. BUT the majority have or develop all sorts of medical problems and are not treated with the best of care during the early and crucial stages of their lives...their "breeding stock" are bred over and over and over pumping out litter after litter...

Continuing to buy from these "brokers" is contributing to animal abuse in my opinion. Why do people do it???? Boggles my mind...
I understand the naivite in buying from a pet store--and the immense tug at the heart strings when you see adorable looking puppies sitting folornly in their cages. I always want to take them home, so I never go into the stores......

Re: Stephanie's poor dog. Even more important than whether or not the dog was AKC eligible, or the dollars paid is the fact that this poor animal has serious, life long health problems because of the poor breeding program and total lack of ethics of his breeder. Unfortunately, it is those of us who buy from such brokers that keep the unethical breeders in business. No matter how hard a lesson for Stephanie--or how expensive!, that really does pale in comparison to the difficulties of this poor dog.

Please do consider contacting a rescue for Goldens. I am sorry for what you are going through....
I was reading all these posts about buying from petstores. I have worked at a petstore for 3 years now and I guarantee the puppies get better care there than most breeders ever would give them. I do say most. Even if you do go buy from a reputable breeder you may still have hereditary or congenital problems that is always a risk when buying a purebred dog. I had a boxer that both grandparents and parents had there hips and knees checked thru OFA and she still ended up with hip dysplasia. It always has to start somewhere. Yes I was responsible enough to have her spayed and not breed her, which is what a reputable breeder does. and to say someone only breeds there dog for money (i.e. puppy mills) I don't know too many people that breed for any other reason. There are responsible ways of doing it but if they weren't breeding for money they would give the puppies away for free to anyone that wants them. I am sick an tired of everyone assuming that all pet stores only sell puppies from back yard breeders and puppy mills. And to say only buy a puppy that is AKC registered it crap too. My husbands champion beagle is registered thru the NKC and is the best hunting dog in this area. AKC doesn't require any pictures of the parents only requires DNA testing on the males if they are used for breeding three or more times per year. SO HOW CAN YOU SAY THEY ARE BETTER THAN ANYONE ELSE!!!!!!!
Hi confused,

It might be nice if your pet stores were to simply require breed specific health certifications and DNA testing from the breeders. Then most of the issues people have would be eliminated.

But it's too expensive for the market they are targetting. But then who said buying a dog should be so cheap?

Why not tell your potential customers who can barely afford to charge a dog to go to the pound and save their credit card space for the vet bills they also won't be able to afford. Not all of your customers, just the ones you sell to that can't afford the dog, but don't realize it yet.

Those are frequently the dogs we see in rescue.
Lambriar is one of the top brokers for puppy mills. Since Hunte Corporation has been established, Lambriar has been pushed to 2.
Unfortunately, they purchase from puppy mills.
I have not read through all these postings... but I have read enough to see that it has been well established that Lambriar's is NOT a puppy mill but a broker. In my opinion there really is not much difference because they are both causing undue hardship to dogs and potential owners alike.
I live in a town very close to Lambriar's. I have worked around dogs and animal health care professionals for a long time. For the most part Lambriar's does not have a good reputation.
True.. they are NOT doing the breeding but they are buying low quality puppies to make money by reselling them to pet stores!! A large amount of the puppies that come to them are sick and dying. This is the breeders fault.
True... Lambriars DOES give medications and does do a certain amount of work trying to make them better. But if they die... they die. ( You would be surprised at how many puppies don't make it.) Sometimes they get them better just long enough for them to be sold to the pet store and then they get sick once they are with the store or the new owner.
Also ... being AKC registered is NOT a big deal. Having registration papers simply tells you who that puppy's parents are, (if they are not fraudulent that is). All registration papers are good for is a birth certificate AND IF you are a reputable breeder they are invaluable.
Breeding should only be done by those who are seeking to improve a certain breed of dog. That is done by careful research of certian lines and constant checking on possible health issues that any certain breed may have.
How do you know if you have a quality dog? Show it or have a professional show it for you. Yes... there can be a lot of dog show "politics" going on in the background... but if you truly have a quality dog of breedable standards... you can still make it in the dog show circuit.
Any dog of any breed of any quality can be a sweet, wonderful, delightful companion for it's owner. High quality or low quality or mixed breed can turn out agressive or laid back.
BUT... in general... your show kennels will take better care to see that temperament, breed standard and health will all click together. A puppy mill breeder, (whom Lambriar's buys from), only cares that "I have a female and here is a male.. they are the same breed... let's make puppies and breed them." Believe me. The bottom line is money.
One lady, ( who by the way is a very, very nice lady with a nice family and nice home ), told me how her puppy business had put her son through college and allowed her to get him a fancy car.
I am not against anyone making money. But not when it comes to the expense of a puppy's life and the devastation of emotions it can cause a family who has been unfortunate enough to get a sick puppy from a pet store that got it from a broker that got it from a puppy mill. There really is no good outcome.
Yes... Lambriar's will sell "unsellable" puppies to those in the local area. But if a dog cannot be sold and the breeder will not take it back... well... use you imagination as to what becomes of the dog.
Sometimes things do turn out alright. (Although owners are not required to have the dog spayed or neutered and some people think they need to breed a dog to recoup their expenses) But the dog will get a nice home. So what if it is not of the greatest quality. Bad bite. Reoccuring skin problem. Eye problem. Bone problems. Some problems are minor for those of us who love our pets no matter what. And yes... sometimes health issues still arise in the show dog or pet quality dog you got from the show kennel. But you do reduce your risk of health issues by going to someone who is more dedicated to improving the standard of any given breed.
And best yet... the dog will actually look like it is supposed to. Around here you can't tell the Silky Terriers apart for the Yorkshire Terriers. Golden Retrievers are HUGE and their coats are more a red color than golden. Plus you have some curly coats which is a big no no.
Most of the dogs in this area are all way oversized for the breed standard. I know a Bichon that is 4 inches over standard. I think all of this comes directly from puppy mills, brokers (like Lambriars) and pet stores. They are all guilty.
So it is up to the individual to decide if they want to continue to support something like this by continuing to buy from pet stores and uncaring breeders and brokers. Maybe we should all go out and hit the animal shelters in search of a new companion animal. Unless of course the dog show fever has hit you. Then go to a show and talk with the breeders right there.
Just wanted to put my two cents in on this subject...

I purchased my cocker back in the 70's from a pet store. Probably from Lambriar.. Aanie, was 6 months old and I just couldn't not buy her, she looked so pitiful in that small cage. She had many problems, from severe allergies that I had to give her daily shots for, to behaviour problems. We loved her, she was my babe before I had babies. She died at 7 from continuous epileptic seizures.

I did not learn my lesson cuz the next dog, in the eighties, a bloodhound, Tinkerbell, was purchased from a different pet store. Again, she was 8 months old, on SALE and gosh...those eyes looking at me from that small cage...I had to "rescue" her...Again, lots and lots of problems. She died at 5 from cancer. My opinion.....

I finally learned..I had become part of the problem by patronizing and "supporting" these stores.... I have never been in a pet store that "sells" animals since. Because we all know that the only reason they exist is because of the huge profit that can be made off these poor animals.

.
Lambriar, Inc./Pedigree Certificate
Pet Purchased at Petland
My sheltie died of a congenital disease/ she was 7 years old. She had half a life thanks to this mill.
I purchased my english bulldog from the american kennel club on rt. 17 in paramus new jersey. he was 9 weeks old. his paperwork said he was whelped at Lambriar Kennels. Since I have owned my son he has had nothing but health problems. I paid $3500 for him. I had him for two weeks and the problems started. He had worms and he had demodex mange. Here is where the health problems and cost started increasing on a monthly basis. Then two weeks after that he held up his back leg and didn't put it down for a couple of hours then i rush him back to the vet and what do you know, luxating petula. I called the american kennel club and explain to them what has been going on they tell me, bring him back and pick out another puppy. I said I wouldn't take another puppy from you if you gave the puppy to me free. Now I contact Lambriar Kennels and I do have to say that they said that they would reimburse the akc and that they will reimburse me. Which never happened.
At the age of 9 months, my dog was diagnosed with pulmonic stenosis a heart problem that would keep getting worse and he probably wouldn't make it past 5 years of age. He was also diagnosed with hip dysplasia and arthritis had already set in. He also struggles with some skin issues.
My baby is now 6 1/2 years old. He struggles everyday. But I am so glad that I walked into that store that day and he chose me because if anyone else bought him he probably would not be here today.
You are better off adopting a pet from your local shelter.
I hope my story sheds some light on something.
princesstara818@aol.com wrote:
I purchased my english bulldog from the american kennel club on rt. 17 in paramus new jersey. <snip> I called the american kennel club and explain to them what has been going on they tell me, bring him back and pick out another puppy. I said I wouldn't take another puppy from you if you gave the puppy to me free. Now I contact Lambriar Kennels and I do have to say that they said that they would reimburse the akc and that they will reimburse me. Which never happened. .


I'm really sorry about your dog. That's not an unusal story under the circumstances, unfortunately. What is unusual is that there is a pet store apparently called the "American Kennel Club"? I'm really surprised.

The AKC (American Kennel Club) we all know more generally is a not-for-profit dog registry, not a store. You can't buy dogs from them. I would think they hold some kind of rights to that name and would be rather upset to hear about a store using it.

I really am very sorry about your dog. The breed itself is known for many health problems, but it seems like your boy has experienced just about all of them. More reputable breeders would be screening to minimize the risk of these health probems cropping up. Thank you for reminding us not to buy from pet stores.

Kristine
I too was fooled. I bought a puppy from Denise at Puppy Palace in La Crescenta California. My previous dog died and I was heartbroken.
The dog had dermodex diagnosed 6months later and kidney failure.
Only after I bought the dog did I realize that the dog came from Lambriar Kennels and the paperwork also had a mom and pop breeder which I called however, this was before I found out the problems with the dog. The woman was nice and bred dogs for extra money. Denise told me she personally new the breeder of my dog and had bought dogs from the breeder before. Never did she explain about Lambriar. Lambriar is a puppy broker that buy cheap dogs and sells to pet stores to make a profit. The truck the dogs and have various weekly routes throughout the US. Puppy look cute but wait a few months and you will see all the problems.
In fact there is a very nice pet store by my house which I did not buy from. When I was walking past the pet store, I went in and spoke with the owner. I asked her if she would explain what a puppy mill was and where she got her puppies. She told me straight up that she buys her dogs from Lambriar and that they are of the highest quality. I wasn't sure if she really believed it or was straight up lying. She makes a fortune.
Anywhere from 1300 up for a dog.
Next time I buy a dog (if I do...I am still dealing with the aftereffects of what happened)...I will go directly to a breeder. I will see the parents. I will visit the home. Don't buy over the internet and have your puppy shipped. Go to the breeder, investigate.
By the way, I just watched a special on tv..Oprah Winfree. Lisa Ling (from the View) did a indepth report on puppy mills, rescues...I don't think the audience had a dry eye...neither did Oprah.

Please, Please don't buy from Pet Store. Stamp out Lambriar and dealers just like them.
annastrait51@hotmail.com wrote:
Lambriar, Inc./Pedigree Certificate
Pet Purchased at Petland
My sheltie died of a congenital disease/ she was 7 years old. She had half a life thanks to this mill.


I´m very sorry about this :(
You people that write on this forum are pathetic human beings. It does matter where a pup comes from!
You try living your life in a cage 24 hours a day, 7 days a week, living and sleeping in the same place you urinate and defecate and have all the dogs in the cages above your cage urinate and defecate on you and eat and drink water when it's supplied and then tell me it doesn't matter if a pup comes from a puppy mill.
These places are horrific and they all need to be shut down once and for all. It's long overdue. Lambrier gets their dogs from puppy mills. What part dont' you get.
Any of you that believe a puppy mill is okay, needs to live in one and then tell me their okay. And you don't truly love dogs if you believe their okay...
sherry.bezanson@verani.com
:cry:
Anonymous wrote:
You people that write on this forum are pathetic human beings. It does matter where a pup comes from!
You try living your life in a cage 24 hours a day, 7 days a week, living and sleeping in the same place you urinate and defecate and have all the dogs in the cages above your cage urinate and defecate on you and eat and drink water when it's supplied and then tell me it doesn't matter if a pup comes from a puppy mill.
These places are horrific and they all need to be shut down once and for all. It's long overdue. Lambrier gets their dogs from puppy mills. What part dont' you get.
Any of you that believe a puppy mill is okay, needs to live in one and then tell me their okay. And you don't truly love dogs if you believe their okay...
sherry.bezanson@verani.com
:cry:


Ms. Bezanson, You've CLEARLY missed the point here. There is not one single member of this group who would ever, EVER advocate support of any puppy mill. Anybody who has posted any kind of support of Lambriar's or any other broker/mill is, like you, not a member of this forum, but someone who happened upon this post and threw in their 0.02 worth. While you're more than welcome to your opinion, I think it's incredibly rude for you to rant that people here are pathetic human beings, when you have no idea who we are whatsoever. This group is incredibly dedicated to saving the lives of these dogs as well as shutting down any puppy mills and back yard breeders as possible.
Another example of why the general public hates animal activists.

We all can learn something from this post, though. How successful would that post have been if this WERE a pro-puppy mill site? I think that if you want to educate, you can't turn off, scare off or run off the students.

What would have been a better approach for this person to take? Do you think it might have been better for her to ask questions?
Oh definitely no one want to listen to a zealot - on either side of the aisle.

Funny the issue of puppy mills came up at kennel club last night because breed referral has no legitimate sources for small dog breeders. esp yorkies, maltese etc. the concensus was that not enough breeding by reputable breeders is really one piece of the puzzle.
Yes it is a puppy mill.One of the largest.Need to close them down.
Need to know: papers mean nothing.These mills and breeders lie through their teeth.Beware!!! USDA needs to do something about these mills and they simply don't.Not enough inspectors and a lot of them close their eyes anyway.There are 10,000 puppy mills in this country need and we need to close them all.Wake up America! The cruelty is everywhere.
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