The solution for the Gay Marriage issue
The Church can continue to sanctify (or not) marriages in any way they see fit. Two Guys? Ok. Two Girls? Yup. One man, one woman? Sure! Whatever floats your boat. Three women and one man? Yessiree Bob! No polygamy will be recognized by the Government, but then again, no polygamy will be prosecuted, either. As long as there's no fraud involved. If everybody knows what is going on, then everybody is happy. Ok, that's my radical plan. What do you think? |
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Wow Ron...thats what I think exactly..pretty scary that we actually think alike  I just think that if you want a marriage in a religious ceremony, that should be man and woman ....... |
| There is only one marriage sanctified by God, and that's between a man and a woman.
I feel so sorry for the future children of this world we live in. The more wrong we accept as right, the more confused they will become. How will future parents teach their children morals when we've left them with no morals to teach. jmpo |
| in the uk we now have civil union between same sexes it give the couple all the legal rights of a marrage (next of kin etc)
it is not a religious union and that is not availiable here but then not everyone get married in a religious ceremony any more so its not much different than a civil marrage one you can ever exchange rings i believe http://www.thepinkguide.co.uk it came into force in december here zoe and einy |
mouthypf wrote: There is only one marriage sanctified by God, and that's between a man and a woman.
jmpo But what about those individuals who don't happen to believe that? I don't like marriage, I don't believe in marriage--should I have the right to create a law forbidding the institution of marriage between anyone? IMO People need to understand and respect that not everyone shares their religious or moral beliefs and that's ok. Each person should have the right the conduct their lives in accordance with their own conscience, as long as they do no willful harm to others, and do not demand others conform to their beliefs. |
| Touchy subject Ron!
IMO, I do believe that a marriage should be between a man and woman and only between them. However, what I believe and what the next person believe may differ........I think that people will do what they will and as long as they are not forcing how they feel down my throat....I feel "numb" to a civil union of same sexes. Do I agree with it? NO. Do I have room to "cast Stones"? NO. We all have our own "crosses to bear" and as a Christian I know that it is not my responsability to judge. It is my responsability to love regardless of ones decisions, to inform and/or educate and leave the rest to God. I have friends who are gay......I love them so much!.....I do not agree with their lifestyles, they know how I feel, I know how they feel and we set our differences aside and just enjoy the time that we have together. I feel that if their is something that I do not agree with, I have two decisions. 1. Cram my beliefs and how I feel down their throats and make them turn away. 2. Set our differences aside, love unconditionally, inform and set example! I choose the later! |
| Oh, Ron. You've opened up a BIG can of worms. I completely agree with you. I feel that people should have the right to choose choose how they live their life. If you are a strong believer in religious teachings, then same sex marriage isn't right for you. However, it shouldn't make it wrong for someone else. Although we teach our children what we think is right or wrong, it doesn't mean that they will grow up thinking exactly like you. If children grow up with a lot of love, that is what matters and is important. |
| I don't like the term civil union. I was married last summer, not civil unioned. But I think that everyone should be treated equally and given the same consideration as others. So, that's when we need a PR department to come up with a better name for it! |
| DID YOU REALLY HAVE TO OPEN THIS CAN OF WORMS??????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????
????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????? Hey mouthy, what does the Bible say about smoking cigarettes?  |
Quote: There is only one marriage sanctified by God, and that's between a man and a woman.
I feel so sorry for the future children of this world we live in. The more wrong we accept as right, the more confused they will become. How will future parents teach their children morals when we've left them with no morals to teach. This is where I stand. I'd write more but I have a delicious pizza in my hand, and I know my reply would be lengthy ....but summed up to what you wrote in just a few sentences. /thumbs up |
rebecca wrote: Touchy subject Ron!
I have friends who are gay......I love them so much!.....I do not agree with their lifestyles, they know how I feel, I know how they feel and we set our differences aside and just enjoy the time that we have together. I feel that if their is something that I do not agree with, I have two decisions. 1. Cram my beliefs and how I feel down their throats and make them turn away. 2. Set our differences aside, love unconditionally, inform and set example! I choose the later!  I AGREE!!!!!!!!! |
| It wrong to marry the same sex no matter what anyone here says.
King James bible Leviticus 18:22 Thou shalt not lie mankind, as with womankind: it is a abomination. Romams 1:26,27 For this cause God gave them up into vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature. And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseeemly, and receiving in themselves that recompense of their error which is meet. --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Society does not set the standards for Gods Law. Society says that any sex act is acceptable so long as nobody gets hurt, it is fooling itself. Sin is sin it hurts individuals, families, whole societies God made women for man. Thats in Genesis 1:27. as for smoking in the bible it is not there except to say your body is the temple of God. You are defiling it with smoking. |
| I guess I'll take Ron's role and play devils advocate............. if you aren't Christian (and I am) should you be bound by the laws set forth in the Bible?
As with other discussions on this forum religion, politics and as of recently apparently smoking  touch some pretty sensitive "hot spots" and I hope we can all keep that "sheepie love" thing going despite our differences of opinion and philosphy  |
| No. ...but if you're wanting something that constitutes a MAN and a WOMAN (Definition of marriage)... you should (have to follow the rules). I do believe people will do what they want to do, and I have nothing against that itself... but as long as they want the benefits that come along with marriage (taxes, etc) ...and I have a voice and/or a vote... I will not let things I don't believe in just happen. I do think one day it will happen, but I'll resort back to my first reply and quote what mouthypf wrote. |
| I have to say yes to that Ginny, God creatated the earth . Most beleave in God some way.
I also agree to theses are very touchey subjects. We are adults. I love all of you!! |
| I think it is illogical to use religious reasoning to apply to law, seeing as we have a binding separation of church and state. And there is absolutely no reason, other than religious or moral objections, that a marriage between two members of the same sex should not be legally recognized.
I also think it would be more detrimental to children to teach them to oppress their sexuality because some people think it is 'wrong' than to encourage them to enter loving, monogamous, and long term relationships with whoever it happens to be that they fall in love with (whether it be a member of the same sex or not). |
| IMO someone who falls in love w/ the same sex should be able too marry,and get the same benifits as a male/female couple.Who are any of us too judge?Who has the right too tell ANYONE who they can and can NOT marry?The bible ALWAYS gets thrown into a situation the conservitives dont beleive in.Talk about talkingout of both sides of your mouth.IF in fact this is against "Gods law" then let God,Buddaha,or whoever you beleive in take care of it.We people or just that PEOPLE we are NOT God and have No right too take away someones rights.Its crazy how everyone fels the need too get all steamed up because they are doing Gods work.Really?Who says you are?Who says what your saying isnt in fact the devils work w/ all he judgeing,and all the "quoeting from the bible". Someone said how sorry they felt for kids who grow up w/ gay parents.Really you do?Why is that?Is it because 2guys or 2ladies are having sex behind close doors?Or do you in some wild thoughts think they are having sex right in front of the kids,trying too convert them too be GOD forbid GAY?How judgemental of you.Do you know in ALL the gay couiples adoptions there hasnt been 1 reported case of abuse?that in fact gay couples in over 80% raise up standing,caring,and productive childern.What about ALL the male/female marriages where the abuse is.What about feeling sorry for all the kids who ARE being abused,and who ARE being neglected?Why not put your energy into helping these kids and getting help for them?You want too take the rights of a couple due too them being of smae sex,but I dont here any of these bible thumpers EVER stepping up helping truely abused childern.Isnt that what this is all about?You all worried aobut if we give gays rights of married people they WILL adopted kids and then what? Ill tell ya what needs too be done.All the bible thumpers in this country try truely fighting for our kids,stop trying too make people bend too your ways,and focus on whats really the issue.I was raised w/ a mom and dad,I was abused beyond if given the choice Id love too be raised by a gay couple,2people who love me and wanted me.However people who say gays are going too hell,youd better take a long hard look in the mirror,my God isnt judgemental,my God is loving and wants ALL of us happy and live side by side inpeace.Stop trying too shove your hollier than tho attitude on us.I should say I am a hetero,but have alot of gay friends and have been too a few cerimonies and they have just beautiful,AND I have also been interviewed for my friends adopting childern.Every gay couple I ahve known have been wonderful,loving parents.They dont push being gay onto their kids,they dont push their kids into anything they let them be kids,and teach them too love EVERYONE no matter what that person is.Too me,thats the RIGHT way too live our time on this earth,you love EVERYONE even tho you dont understand them,or agree w/ them you love them and make some sort of peace w/ it.Atleats thats how Im raiseing my kids,theres way too much hate already,and if 2people love one another then let them be.Dont be judgemental after all should I judge you? |
| But going back to Ron's original suggestion, a Cival Union is a legal partnership not a "Marriage". Doesn't that allow for preservation of the religious sanctity of Marriage for the Christian Community but also acknowledge that not all people are of the same belief without compromising your own moral/ethical/religious standards? |
Tasker's Mom wrote: ....DID YOU REALLY HAVE TO OPEN THIS CAN OF WORMS?????...........
Hey mouthy, what does the Bible say about smoking cigarettes? The Bible, God's Word, tells us that the body is the temple of God and to keep it holy. Smoking will not send you to hell, but it's not a good testimony for the Lord. All sin is mentioned in the Bible and the punishment for sin is death, but by the blood of Christ we are forgiven for our transgressions. That doesn't give us permission to continue in sin, or make the sin any less sinful, but the blood of Christ cleanses us through salvation, and He makes intersession before the Father on our behalf. But, there will come a judgement day. In the meantime, the farther we get from the Lord, the more evil we will see. But, it won't be seen as evil, because man keeps making laws opposite to the laws of God in order for it to be acceptable. Mans law is not acceptable to God, sin is not acceptable to God, but as long as we leave God out of it, all is acceptable. |
| Marriage is not just considered a religious union in the Christian faith. Please don't forget that there are people of different faiths on this site. Thanks |
mouthypf wrote: Tasker's Mom wrote: ....DID YOU REALLY HAVE TO OPEN THIS CAN OF WORMS?????........... Hey mouthy, what does the Bible say about smoking cigarettes? The Bible, God's Word, tells us that the body is the temple of God and to keep it holy. Smoking will not send you to hell, but it's not a good testimony for the Lord. All sin is mentioned in the Bible and the punishment for sin is death, but by the blood of Christ we are forgiven for our transgressions. That doesn't give us permission to continue in sin, or make the sin any less sinful, but the blood of Christ cleanses us through salvation, and He makes intersession before the Father on our behalf. But, there will come a judgement day. In the meantime, the farther we get from the Lord, the more evil we will see. But, it won't be seen as evil, because man keeps making laws opposite to the laws of God in order for it to be acceptable. Mans law is not acceptable to God, sin is not acceptable to God, but as long as we leave God out of it, all is acceptable. So then I'm confused........if smoking is bad and gay marriage is bad why are support one (smoking in public) and condeming another? Is that selective religion? I'm not being sarcatic. I just get confused when people use the Bible selectively. |
| How do you guys copy what some one wrote?? I have tried but not able to.
HELP |
OES Mommy wrote: How do you guys copy what some one wrote?? I have tried but not able to. Go to the post you want to quote, click quote, then type your response below.HELP |
OES Mommy wrote: How do you guys copy what some one wrote?? I have tried but not able to.
HELP Click on the little quote button in that person's message. |
Annie's Mom wrote: Marriage is not just considered a religious union in the Christian faith. Please don't forget that there are people of different faiths on this site. Thanks
Absolutely, but not all religions are quite as judgemental" as others. |
Thanks Guys  neve saw that lol  |
| doesn't Christianity say that it is God's job to judge and not ours? |
| Wow!
I guess, I feel the same way....maybe! I was asked by one of my gay friends to be his "Best Woman" a few years ago......as much as I adore him, I am Christian, I accept him for who he is, but I cannot stand up in front of God and say that I support a marriage that I believe is incorrect. I told him this and he understood.....ended up they broke up a few months later......anyhow, as I said before, I am not one to judge! It is not my place. I just love them through it........and for the record, I am a proud "Bible Thumper", I actually studied for many years to be a youth pastor, however, I know to let go and let GOD, "judge not least yea be judged". Additionally, my son refers to my friend as "Uncle Daniel", there is no perverse look in his eyes or anysuch way about him that would make me doubt that Micah, my boy, is 100% safe with Daniel. If you are a person of faith and feel that the children of this world are going to be corrupted, please ask yourself if you are contributing to the corruption by not teaching the little ones to love and accept. They too are not the one to judge! |
rebecca wrote: Wow!
I guess, I feel the same way....maybe! I was asked by one of my gay friends to be his "Best Woman" a few years ago......as much as I adore him, I am Christian, I accept him for who he is, but I cannot stand up in front of God and say that I support a marriage that I believe is incorrect. Would you have chosen to do the same if he wasn't gay and you really disliked his chosen female bride? |
Lil Walty wrote: doesn't Christianity say that it is God's job to judge and not ours?
I don't feel that has anything to do with having the right to vote for or speak against what we are taught is wrong ...........or when asked, express what we believe ......or when an opportunity is brought up to express your opinion... give your honest answer. Just because one believes that gays shouldn't marry OR just believe they shouldn't be given the same rights as a married couple (man and woman) ...does not mean they hate gays. |
| Yes!
I was asked by my brother to do the same for his upcoming wedding (to a woman) and I declined, as I do not agree with the marriage! When you are the Bestman/Maiden of Honer, you are standing before God and family and friends and saying that you support whole hartedly the marriage that is taking place. If I do not agree, I am not going to pretend that I do! I am honest with myself and others! |
Tasker's Mom wrote: ........So then I'm confused........if smoking is bad and gay marriage is bad why are support one (smoking in public) and condeming another? Is that selective religion? I'm not being sarcatic. I just get confused when people use the Bible selectively.
I agree, it is confusing, but I think its more like selective government. Wrong is wrong, regardless. What makes it selective is people. God's law NEVER changes, mans law does. It changes to accomadate the sins of man. Therefore, whatever sin you're participating in is what you'll be more apt to accept as law. |
Annie's Mom wrote: Marriage is not just considered a religious union in the Christian faith. Please don't forget that there are people of different faiths on this site. Thanks
I respect all faiths! I am voicing my opinion according to my own faith....please do not take me as not accepting, my 5 closest friends are Agnostic, Jewish, Baptist, Atheist and Christian.......I have no quams, just an opinion. |
Joahaeyo wrote: Lil Walty wrote: doesn't Christianity say that it is God's job to judge and not ours? I don't feel that has anything to do with having the right to vote for or speak against what we are taught is wrong ...........or when asked, express what we believe ......or when an opportunity is brought up to express your opinion... give your honest answer. Just because one believes that gays shouldn't marry OR just believe they shouldn't be given the same rights as a married couple (man and woman) ...does not mean they hate gays. by that logic, the white people that owned slaves and refused to give them their rights were not being judgmental because they didn't hate black people, they just didn't want them to have the same rights. i think it is very scary that people would attempt to take away rights from someone just because they don't agree with what they are doing. it is absolutely your right to disagree with them, or to think it is morally wrong. but it is another thing to vote in such a way that would deprive them of rights. |
Well there is one thing about these topics... nothing is ever achieved since no one will change their sides on this by the end of it, so we will just have to agree to disagree.  |
rebecca wrote: Yes!
I was asked by my brother to do the same for his upcoming wedding (to a woman) and I declined, as I do not agree with the marriage! When you are the Bestman/Maiden of Honer, you are standing before God and family and friends and saying that you support whole hartedly the marriage that is taking place. If I do not agree, I am not going to pretend that I do! I am honest with myself and others! I wish I could be strong like you & drop out of my sister-in-law's wedding which is in June. However, I'm doing it out of respect and support for her. If he makes her happy, then I should be there for her despite what I think of him. |
| I have a bit different reason for being perhaps a little more accepting of "Gay" couples.
I was married for 17 years to a Bible thumping pillar of the Church "Christian" man. For all those years I belonged to the same Church, went every sunday, raised my children in the church, tithed, believed and did everything "by The Book". Well, the "Christian" man wasn't quite so Christian Mon-Sat as he had every one believe on Sunday. I won't go into the details but there wasn't a sin he didn't commit (including being physically abusive because the Bible said it was ok). When I left him he decided that rather than face the Church and admit he had done anything wrong he would "get there first" with his story. He told everyone at our church that I was a lesbian and had left him for another woman!!!!!!!!!!!!!! He was a Decon, Chairman of the Finance Committee, a Lay leader and a Eucharistic Minister. I decided that rather than embroil our church in the intimate details of our failed marriage I would keep my mouth shut, ignorantly assuming that truth would win out and that the people who knew me would never believe such absurd stories. Well, guess what, I was wrong. It was a titillating story that grew wings and flew. Not only did people BELIEVE it but I was asked to leave the church, I was removed from my position as a District Youth Leader, people I had known for 20 years turned their back on me. My children, in Middle school at the time, lost friends and I almost lost them. It was crazy. All because a group of Bible spouting "Christians" decided to be judge and jury. It's been over 10 years, there are still people who continue to believe the "gossip" despite the fact that I have been in a long term committed relationship with A MAN for many many years. I still occasionally get "the look" in the grocery store. Now I can laugh about it but believe me it took a long time. I have experience to a small extent the terrible prejudice and judgement that Gay people experience every moment of their entire lives and have decided to leave it to God to pass judgement. So when ever someone starts to quote Bible verses excuse me if I get a bit defensive. I consider myself a Christian but I worry a whole lot more about whether my personal actions are kind and caring, and whether I am treating those around me with compassion than whether they follow the letter of the Old Testament Law, which by the way as Christians we are "New Testament People" and should not be quoting Old Testament Law. So there ya have it, my life story  A tale wothy of something Marianne would write |
Joahaeyo wrote: Well there is one thing about these topics... nothing is ever achieved since no one will change their sides on this by the end of it, so we will just have to agree to disagree.
Sometimes it's a good dialog to have, not to change another persons opinion but to find out more about a person, how they think what makes them "tick". If you look at it that way then it's a positive thing. |
| Wow, Ginny! That is an awful thing to have happened to you, but look how far you've come. You have Magnum PI |
Tasker's Mom wrote: I consider myself a Christian but I worry a whole lot more about whether my personal actions are kind and caring, and whether I am treating those around me with compassion than whether they follow the letter of the Old Testament Law
I agree! Which has been my point......I am sorry for what you have been through. I was the daughter of a man like your ex and my mom went through a horrible life with him. My brother once told me (shortly before he died) "I can go out on that lake, sit in the silence and in awe of my surroundings and be closer to God in that moment than what the majority of the people in the church are in every moment they spend "worshiping". Unfortunatly, I believe in what he said. |
| Ginny I think your last two posts were wonderful. It speaks volume of your character that you came out of that mess learning something positive, instead of being angry and bitter. I definitely admire you for that.
And I also agree that dialogue is a good way to get to know people. I also think the ability to engage in open discourse is one of the most important freedoms we have, that we should enjoy to the fullest. also- i tend to get very heated on issues that i am passionate about. i respect everyones opinions, and i apologize if i come across as harsh sometimes! |
Annie's Mom wrote: I wish I could be strong like you & drop out of my sister-in-law's wedding which is in June. However, I'm doing it out of respect and support for her. If he makes her happy, then I should be there for her despite what I think of him.
I will be attending the wedding (in the congregation) out of respect of my brother.......however, I will not be standing up for them at the alter. I love my brother and really, I don't mind the girl, I just feel that the relationship is wrong (and everyone else that knows my brother feels the same way!) I am getting off of this subject as it is leading to another ZsaZsa, type of thing! |
Annie's Mom wrote: Wow, Ginny! That is an awful thing to have happened to you, but look how far you've come. You have Magnum PI
Good things come to those who wait 
Book of Ginny 3:22 |
| Still can;t quote LOL so I copy and paste
Ginny I think your last two posts were wonderful. It speaks volume of your character that you came out of that mess learning something positive, instead of being angry and bitter. I definitely admire you for that. And I also agree that dialogue is a good way to get to know people. I also think the ability to engage in open discourse is one of the most important freedoms we have, that we should enjoy to the fullest. also- i tend to get very heated on issues that i am passionate about. i respect everyones opinions, and i apologize if i come across as harsh sometimes This is how I feel to. I apologize too. This is a touchey subjuect. Ginny your ex will have to stand infront of God for his judgement. I am sure you know this. His "reward" will come then. My hat is off to you for hanging in there. That must of be a awfull thing to go through. |
| I love how this post turned all sweet! Everyone apologizing for potentially harsh tones used, etc.! |
OES Mommy wrote: Still can;t quote LOL so I copy and paste
Ginny I think your last two posts were wonderful. It speaks volume of your character that you came out of that mess learning something positive, instead of being angry and bitter. I definitely admire you for that. All you have to do is to click on my camera and see the pictures of my BEEEEUTIFUL children, my handsome hunk of a Man, my ADORABLE puppies, and the GORGEOUS three acres I call home to know I have nothing to be bitter about. Except maybe the fact that there is still snow on my deck
TO QUOTE.... Go to the post that you want to QUOTE, put the arrow on "Quote", it should take you directly to the post a reply screen with the "quote" there. Spcae down below the quote to type your message. Once you get the hang of that you can try editing the quote 
I'm trying to figure out how to include MORE THAN ONE quote in a post, haven't got that one down yet!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! |
| ALSO to QUOTE: Make sure you go to the 'QUOTE' you want BEFORE you hit 'post reply' because then it won't be there.
So basically, you read something that you want to quote and you hit the 'quote' button in that particular post and then it automatically takes you to the 'post reply' section, with the entire post you wanted included... |
barney1 wrote: ALSO to QUOTE: Make sure you go to the 'QUOTE' you want BEFORE you hit 'post reply' because then it won't be there.
So basically, you read something that you want to quote and you hit the 'quote' button in that particular post and then it automatically takes you to the 'post reply' section, with the entire post you wanted included... Hope this works |
yay!!!!! You quoted!!  |
| SO whattaya think?
Get rid of "Civil Marriage" and replace it with "Civil Union" defined as a "partnership between two adults", and leave marriage and its definitions up to the religious institutions (church, temple, mosque, pretty lake..) ? I'll start a poll on it! |
OES Mommy wrote: barney1 wrote: ALSO to QUOTE: Make sure you go to the 'QUOTE' you want BEFORE you hit 'post reply' because then it won't be there. So basically, you read something that you want to quote and you hit the 'quote' button in that particular post and then it automatically takes you to the 'post reply' section, with the entire post you wanted included... Hope this works WOOOOOHOOOOO Sweet smell of success!!!! |
| uhmmmmmm...........after all these post still no answer!!LOL!!I feel that w/ the progression of times and the many many lifestyles out here,that why not have both?Why not hav the option to choose?I strongly beleive like it or not one day gay marriage will be accepted and legal,and I for one will support that act.there is way too much hatred and judgeing that goes on already.I think its wonderful when and if 2ppl are in love,Why do i care if they are both males or both females??Why should I care? IF it is truely a sin against God then isnt it the gays who will pay?and NOT the hetero's?People who marry the oppisite sex are doing the "right"thing in Gods eye,and as long as they ask for forgiveness for their sins they will be allowed into heaven and eternity of happiness.So why not live your life on earth loving everyone?Why make such an ordeal if your neighbors down the street are "living in sin" due too them both being female/male?If your doing it all right then relax,if you truely beleive "gays" are wonderful people and since it seems everyone on here has a wonderful couple of gays they know and would trust a gay couple w/ their kids,so what some are saying is that "gays"make wonderful parents,and "gays" make wonderful friends,but due too the bible they can not get married.OK this makes no sence too me.Seems too me that if all this is true,then why not let them get married?They are great people,great w/ kids,and live life just like us hetero's do.Could it be the conservitives use the bible too hide behind their fears?Could it be some people just are truely judgemental,and hide within the bible?What about all the people who dont even beleive in God?They still have a marriage of sorts,and they still get the bennifits of marriage. IMO it isnt that "GODS law"its the fear of the what if's.Gays pay taxes,live life just like me and YOU and they live under GODS law.So is it that conservivitves are just worried about all the gays getting married?Are they fearing for their souls?I highly doubt that,I strongly feel it is ALL control,and God forbid gays have the same rights has the holier than tho conservitives. Love IS Love.....Im still wondering,too the person who says my heart goes out too the childern of gays.What about your heart going out too the abused childern of heteros?What about trying too save these kids who are abused,and keep your pitty for the childern who are loved by their parents who happened too be the same sex?JMHO |
Ron wrote: Three women and one man? Yessiree Bob! No polygamy will be recognized by the Government, but then again, no polygamy will be prosecuted, either. As long as there's no fraud involved. If everybody knows what is going on, then everybody is happy.
Ron, I'm totally with your plan except for the polygamy part. Since moving to Arizona I've been horrified by the investigative reports on polygamous communities in the Southwest. In every case, women are disrespected and abused. I know that having a harem of babes is a fantasy for men, but in reality women become possessions in communities where polygamy is supported. And if a man considers his wives a possession, then his daughters are too - and those daughters are given away at young ages to their father's friends, business associates and spiritual leaders. Take out the polygamy plank and I will happily support the manifesto. |
| How about 3 men per woman? |
| |
Ron wrote: How about 3 men per woman?
LOL! I can barely clean up after 1! |
Annie's Mom wrote: Marriage is not just considered a religious union in the Christian faith. Please don't forget that there are people of different faiths on this site. Thanks
Thanks for bringing this up, Stacy. A new member of our forum has a link to a lovely web site celebrating their same-sex marriage. I feel embarrassed for them that this subject is even being discussed here. Same goes for religion, politics, etc. |
| All you have to do is to click on my camera and see my handsome hunk of a Man.
Wow! You can say that again! Handsome X 10!!! |
| I can't relate to this |
| I am very much a Christian, but I also don't think it's in my place to judge them. If they're happy, in love, then it's not my place to say it's wrong. They can take it up with their creator whenever they pass away. For them to be able to get married wouldn't lessen my marriage any. It wouldn't effect my life in anyway, so sure...let them.
I just know how much I love my husband, and how much I went through with my family to marry him. Before him, I dated a son of a guy who ran a multi-million dollar company. He was all set to take it over one day. My ex was trying to get me back, and my parents told me that I would regret it if I married Jason. They were actually mad at me, and to this day they still think I made the wrong decision. Sure, I would of had a comfortable life, but I cared for him, but I didn't LOVE him like I did Jason. We've been married, broke, and happy for 7 years now...lol I don't regret it for a second. He has given me a great life and two of the most wonderful sons a mother could ask for. I would have liked for certain things to be different (like our daughter not passing away, the miscarriage, his long deployments), but those are just the trails of life. If they have even 1/2 the love that I have for my husband for their partner, I can not in my heart say that it is wrong. It may be wrong in the Bible, but so is murder, adultry, abuse, stealing, lying...we're not taking away people who have been convicted of those things rights to marry. For those of us who believe, we have a very forgiving God. All it takes is believing his son died for us and to have him in our hearts, and we're forgiven of our sins. In my mind, I don't think my God is so cruel to send someone to Hell just over choosing someone of the same sex to love. There's a lot worse things people do out there. |
Maggie McGee IV wrote: A new member of our forum has a link to a lovely web site celebrating their same-sex marriage. I brought the subject up because I have thought that there is another approach that hasn't been discussed. In fact, I have had this idea for a couple of years now and I haven't seen this solution offered anywhere else, though I must admit that I don't follow the issue closely or intensely. Perhaps by discussing it we can make the situation better. It was not my intent to make anyone feel uncomfortable or unwelcome here; in fact I suspect that particular member is particularly accustomed to having these issues discussed, while the people made to feel uncomfortable are those who are opposed to same-sex marriages or unions of any type at any time on religious grounding. For everyone made uncomfortable, and I know that some are, I apologize from the bottom of my heart.
I feel embarrassed for them that this subject is even being discussed here. Same goes for religion, politics, etc.This section is about discussing things that should cause people to think, to challenge their current thinking on issues and try to come to grips with complex issues. Try to take a look at things from a perspective that's a little different than we're hearing and seeing on TV, or reading in the newspaper, or talking about with our close circle of friends. I think this forum is a particularly interesting place to do this. We are a group of people that gets along really really well, very much like a family. These relationships and our ground rule of respect for one another may allow people to read "unsettling" information and explore different lines of thoughts in a non-threatening environment. I find it fun to explore issues in ways I haven't seen them before. Within the community of sheepdog owners I think there is a large percentage of what some might call "non-traditional" relationships. I love all of our members, you all are very special to me, like family. That's non-traditional too, isn't it? |
| I think most people in "non-traditional" relationships of any type are generally very willing to talk about it. I am in a "non-traditional" relationship to a lesser extent. Doug and I have lived together for many years, hope to for many more but are not "married".
Acceptance comes through understanding and understanding comes through dialoge which can't happen if you simply pretend those difficult issue don't exist. You don't have to agree or embrace another persons choices to accept and respect them as an idividual but aceptance cnnot come without figuring out what makes them tick. So I'm not at all embarrassed that we discuss difficult issues, in a kind, thoughtful and respectful way. |
Maggie McGee IV wrote: Annie's Mom wrote: Marriage is not just considered a religious union in the Christian faith. Please don't forget that there are people of different faiths on this site. Thanks Thanks for bringing this up, Stacy. A new member of our forum has a link to a lovely web site celebrating their same-sex marriage. I feel embarrassed for them that this subject is even being discussed here. Same goes for religion, politics, etc.Ditto. I really hope that this forum stays away from religious & political topics which can cause such heated debates. I have very strong opinions on this topic, and I'm thoroughly biting my big fat liberal tongue right now. |
Quote: I have very strong opinions on this topic, and I'm thoroughly biting my big fat liberal tongue right now.
I don't have strong opinions on the subject itself, but I do have strong opinions on the actual discussion of it. That is what I am biting my tongue about. |
| In Norway we now have a new law between same sexes it give the couple all the legal rights to marrage |
Ron wrote: .......For everyone made uncomfortable, and I know that some are, I apologize from the bottom of my heart..........
I don't feel like anyone should be uncomfortable or offended. We all know we're different when we click the mouse to enter the site. It's been mentioned elsewhere that if people don't like something they can change it. How do we know people's opinions unless we discuss the issues? When I was a child, I went to church with mom and dad. I sat there and listened to the sermons and teachings, but only when I was older and "READ" the book myself, did I question the validity of the pastor. I came across things he said that weren't quite right, according to "my" newly found revelation of the Word. Upon discussing these things with others, I found they also disagreed with some of the teachings. If we just sit back and watch, someone else makes our decisions for us. Are they making the right ones? Knowledge is power and there is strength in numbers. But, if we're all happy little followers, asking no questions, it only takes the words and strength of one, such as Hitler to rule with a mighty hand. JMPO You owe me no apology Ron, and I hope I haven't offended anyone by my words as well. If I did, I also apologize. |
| i think it is incredibly important to create open discourse on controversial topics. if we were worried about offending people all the time there would have been no women's lib movement or civil rights movements.
discourse is good! heated discourse that challenges people is even better! |
| I agree with the two above statements, but where I differ is... this is a dog board. Even with open general discussions, I would have to agree that this type of topic doesn't really fit in. That's what other forums are for, imo. I mean I'm not offended that these topics are here and don't care overall, but I did have a wide-eyed moment when I say the topic title and can understand where others are coming from. |
Lil Walty wrote: i think it is incredibly important to create open discourse on controversial topics. if we were worried about offending people all the time there would have been no women's lib movement or civil rights movements. No wonder you're in law school! You'll make an excellent attorney.
discourse is good! heated discourse that challenges people is even better! I'm on the fence as to whether the topic is appropriate or not. Since most members didn't chime in with their opinions, I'm led to believe that others don't want to discuss this topic on the sheepie forum. This forum seems to be a way for most to get away from their every day stresses and differences and ease their mind with doggie stories. Being very liberal minded, I'm not easily offended, so this topic doesn't bother me. |
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