Another opinion of Cesar Milan
Paul Owen. a highly respected and well-known dog trainer/behaviorist, wrote a book called " Dog Whisperer" a few years ago. He does not have a TV show, as far as I know. He has these comments about Cesar. Quote: Q: You indicate on your website that you are not affiliated with the National Geographic program, "The Dog Whisperer” which features Cesar Millan . I've never seen him use inappropriate or violent techniques with animals so why are you distancing yourself from him?
A: The methods demonstrated by Mr. Millan include the use of choke collars, jerking, hitting, pinning to the ground, etc. He has stated that any method is okay to use as long as it works. He uses physical punishment and “flooding” in order to suppress a dog's behavior. Physical punishment involves applying a physical aversive to reduce the probability of the behavior continuing. “Flooding” refers to physically forcing a dog into an overwhelming situation he or she is afraid of until the dog “shuts down” or the behavior is suppressed. Using negative methods with fearful or aggressive dogs is dangerous (as demonstrated on the program) and unnecessary. Most importantly, these methods are not the most effective in modifying problematic behaviors. And they are certainly not very easy on the dogs. Behavioral science has shown that suppressing behavior, especially through physical force or the threat of force, does nothing to bring confidence to a fearful dog or calm an aggressive dog, it only suppresses that behavior (out of fear) in that particular situation. Most of the physical-force methods demonstrated on this program are in contrast to the positive behavior modification programs used by professional trainers around the world, including the leading veterinary schools of behavior at University of Pennsylvania, Tufts University, Cornell, University of California at Davis, and many others. They have found negative training to be unsafe, unnecessary and ineffective in the long run. Thirty years ago I used most of the negative methods shown on the National Geographic program and became skilled in both positive and negative training. In the past 15 years, along with other professionals and the leading animal behavioral scientists at the institutions referenced above, I have abandoned negative training, finding it to be less effective and certainly not as kind as positive training. I believe positive training is easier and more effective with even the most aggressive or fearful dog, as well as being less stressful for the human. I recommend that you interview trainers and find out the methods he or she uses before hiring him or her. I further recommend getting referrals and watching the trainer in action. Only then can you can make an informed decision and choose for yourself the methods you will ultimately use. Source:http://www.dogwhispererdvd.com/faq-national_geographic_dog_whisperer.htm It is important for people to understand the impact, both short and long term, of what they do to their dogs in the name of "training" and "behavior modification". I personally have a philosopy, that pretty well means don't ever do anything to hurt or scare your dog. |
|
|
| This is one of the books I picked up last week. I've been using some of the techniques outlined in the book and I've seen great results with Barkley. I have not watched the TV show. One of the things I can say is that I read a lot of information, trying to be informed and learn what to do. Barkley was completely untrained when I got him. He had not been socialized with people. I found that some of the suggestions made by some of the training books and materials I read, made me feel like there was an adversarial role between me and Barkley--like I was trying to "force" him to do what I wanted him to do. I didn't like that at all! He didn't like it either. In this book I feel more like I'm showing Barkley, how behaving the way I want him do is rewarding for both him and me, and that he benefits from it. I think because he see's that, he's more inclined to work "with me" rather than "against me". It is no longer a contest of wills. The effects have been positive both in terms of his behavior, and the bond between us. I'm hoping the same training will produce similar effects with Sheba. |
| The first thing he mentions is that Cesar hits, jerks and pins the dogs but that's pretty contrary to Cesar's philosophy on his web site or anything that you ever see him do on his show. The most he ever does is touch the dogs and make a noise, kind of like "pssst" to get their attention. here's a direct quote from Cesar's site. He does get the dogs to submit by lying down but it's not what I'd call pinning them either.
Quote: Cesar Millan teaches that, in order to properly fulfill both our dogs and ourselves, we need to become our canine's calm, assertive pack leaders. A dog that doesn't trust its human to be a good pack leader becomes unbalanced and often exhibits unwanted or anti-social behaviors. Cesar does not "train" dogs in the sense of teaching them commands like "sit, stay, come, heel," - he rehabilitates unbalanced dogs and helps "re-train" their owners to better understand how to see the world through a dog's eyes. Cesar counsels people to calmly, assertively, and consistently give their dogs rules, boundaries and limitations to establish themselves as solid pack leaders and to help correct and control unwanted behavior. He doesn't believe in "quick fixes," even though changing some behaviors can appear to happen in a relatively short period of time. None of those changes will "stick," however, unless the human acts consistently with his/her dog every day to keep unwanted behaviors from returning. In Cesar's opinion, no one should ever hit or yell at a dog to correct unwanted behavior. |
| He does jerk the leash for correction. Is that wrong? |
wow, this thread was actually surprising to me. I'm definitely pro CM. IMO, his quick "jerk" doesn't harm the dog emotionally or physically in any way. The word itself just sounds bad. Another reason to check out the show.  It's his distract method to immediately steer the dog away from the negative behavior. No more than a dog would pull you if they were intent on leading in a walk (and he always uses the leash correctly...placed right behind the ears, which he explains why/and how).
He also uses his hands to mimic "biting" the dog. In the last episode he went over specifically that it should be just the fingertips pressing a little on the dog. Not a lot of anything that owuld be classified as harmful (wouldn't even be enough to hold the dog down w/your hand). |
Cesar Millan is my hero. You need to watch the show before you make any rash judgements. He I'm sure has saved many a dog from being put to sleep needlessly.I think his training methods make sense. He usually always starts out with making sure the dogs are excercized well and sometimes that in itself solves many of the problems. Not excercised by just out in the yard but by walking them on a leash. I've never seen him on the show that I would consider cruel or inhumane quite the contrary.  |
| I should watch it before passing judgement, but there are only so many hours in a day. I take the opinion of those that I already know and trust for all kinds of things, when I don't have the time to do it myself.
But from I undertand he did an "alpha roll" on a dobe last week, and does use leash corrections. Yes, these are both old-fashioned and not positive at all. And as for "the claw", when does intimidation have a postive affect on anyone? I am not a dog, and I don't want to communicate to a dog as if I am. I don't sniff thier butts when greeting them, so why would I attempt to grasp one like a dog would? I am not saying that he doesn't have some good ideas, and concepts, but he still has some very old-school methods. I am just suggesting that people be open-minded when watching a show that makes tons of money and sells lots of DVD's. Educate yourselves, because what you see is not always what goes on behind the scenes. On another forum it was said that he starves his own dogs to make them submissive to him.... I am playing Devils Advocate here, but for a reason. To get people to think and search and get informed. |
| I have never seen Cesar's show, read his book, nor have I read the Paul Owens book. I would ask this: since it would not be in Paul Owens best interest to promote anyone other than himself why would it suprise anyone that he would say negative things? Are they not in competition with each other to some degree? |
| On the contrary. The trainers/behaviorists who follow the same methods actually support each other all the time, and make acknowledgements in each others books, and recognise their achievements.
For example, if you look at the many books by Ian Dunbar (the man who started the positive trend and clicker training), Karen Pryor, Pam Reid, Patricia McConnell, Jean Donaldson, etc. they support each other and actually use theories that each have some up with. What trainers do not like is to be associated with the likes of someone who does not use thier same methods, or the same training theory. And by be associated by having the same "title" per se would be scary if they are not delivering the same kind of message. |
| That would make sense if they are both calling themselves "The Dog Whisperer".
I have not seen either tv shows, or read their books. But watching CM on Oprah did have a powerful impact...he was with her dogs (the cocker spaniels), they HATE other dogs and in no time they were okay with his dogs being around. Celebrities like to endorse what they believe in, and the fact that Jada and Will Smith love his work with their Rotti's...makes you think he's great. I agree it is alot to do to find out the right info, and weed through the lashing of others...to further their own gains. We need to do what we feel is the right method, in the humaneest way possible to achieve the results we want. Maybe we need to take a piece from one guy and another from someone else. I wish we had National Geographic, I love watching all dog stuff. We don;t even get "Good Dog" anymore...but they haven't had anything new for years, but I loved Stanley Corens method. He's a Canadian in Vancouver BC. |
bestdogsx4 wrote: I have never seen Cesar's show, read his book, nor have I read the Paul Owens book. I would ask this: since it would not be in Paul Owens best interest to promote anyone other than himself why would it suprise anyone that he would say negative things? Are they not in competition with each other to some degree?
I thought the same thing about this Holly. Though normally I would think they'd build off each there's information, it would seem that there would be some sour grapes over the "more successful" Dog Whisperer. |
Bosley's mom wrote: I am playing Devils Advocate here, but for a reason. To get people to think and search and get informed.
I think it is absurd to raise objections to prompt other people to get informed when you haven't taken the time yourself to watch the show and see what it is about. Although I often appreciate your sage input, in this area, you are the one that needs to be better informed. The "bite" is not at all intimidating. It is not a grasp, but a quick and painless touch that redirects the dogs attention. I don't have time to respond to all the other inaccuracies in your description of Cesar's method. If you have something else that works for you great. But you are not doing anyone a service by mischaracterizing Cesar's approach. |
| I would have more opinion on the show itself, if I watched it, but I don't think I get it up where I am. But just because I don't watch a TV show doesn't mean that I cannot provide a valid opinion on the methods that I am told are used. I have never been to a puppy mill, nor seen one on TV, yet I know that I feel very strongerly about them, and educate people on them, even though I have not personally seen one. But I have seen the results.
I only watch about 2/3 hours of TV a week, so that is not where I get my information from. TV is very biased and scripted, we all know that. And it brings in lots of money. Some people don't watch TV at all. I don't really have comments on the show, itself, but concerns about some of the methods that I hear that he uses. Many methods are standard methods, used by many trainers, and choke collors, leash corrections and "flooding" are not modern positive mthods. If he does not use these, great. If he does not agree with hanging a feisty Jingo up off the ground by its collor when trying to make him submit, great. If he does not do "alpha rolls" great. But I have heard and read otherwise from people who have watched the show....Either way he is not a magician, and he is not a qualified behaviorist. I am just trying to let people know that there is a lot of information out there, and to make sure that any training techniques that are chosen to use are well-thought out and researched. People should really understand what they are doing to their dogs, and understand the impact both positive and negative of thier actions. |
| I am a huge fan of Cesar. I have watched his show, and repeatedly
on ONDemand. I think his "jerking" of the leash is more to get the attention of the dog just slightly before the dog is beginning the undesired behavior. I have never seen him hurt a dog, never. The neck touch he does is not painful, he is not digging in or pinching, there again getting the dogs attention and placing himself above the dog in dominance. He has had some instances where a dog has tried very hard to bite him and he has held the dog away and firmly, but not to the point of hurting- IMO. He has been bloody on more than one show, one where a small dog refused to allow grooming around the face. I don't know if anyone else noticed, but by the end of the show he had bandaids on just about every finger. He was forceful in that case, but I still don't think he was hurting the dog. And in the end the dog was much more accepting and the woman was clipping his face herself. Getting the dogs attention or a slight surprise of change in direction is NOT wrong in dog training. I think some may percieve these actions to be more than they really are. They may look, from a distance, harsher than they are. I have never seen a dog cower from Cesar, or really fear him. I have seen just about every one submit though. I think there is a big difference! Shellie |
| I kind of see this as like the spanking/non-spanking issue in child raising. Some people are for it, some against it. You don't have to always be bubbles and roses in life to achieve a positive result. But, as a wise old Big Hair band from the 80s said, "Every rose has its thorns." |
| Nicole,
On every topic there is good advice (some from you) and often links to other sites are provided. Many of these issues we need to "think" about are topics covered in medical, behavior, etc. Just as there is not one type of dog neither is there one type of trainer. |
Bosley's mom wrote: just because I don't watch a TV show doesn't mean that I cannot provide a valid opinion on the methods that I am told are used.
Of course you can have an opinion on the methods that you are told are used. It is interesting to discuss all sorts of hypotheticals and different approaches. But I don't think what you have been told is an accurate or fair characterization of what Cesar demonstrates on his show. If you watched the show, you would know that. |
| Cesar Millan is the worst thing that has happened to dogs. EVER!!No formal training, no classes in college. Simply calls himself an expert .He disgusts me. Working on a campaign to get him kicked off The National Geographics Channel. |
| Jason, certainly everyone is entitled to their own opinion.
I am curious as to what has led you to this conclusion. As for not being formally trained - well... I have seen many people formally trained and with degrees who are totally incapable of doing work in their own field. Life experience is often more valuable than a degree! I don't feel it is fair to write off anyone for this reason. (After all, not many of us are able to claim degrees in parenting, and I think that is one of the most important jobs there is.) Shellie |
| the big issue i have with cesar isn't his methods, for some pups, if it works, run with it. the issue i have is this: your dog has an established dominance with you, the hierarchy is there, whether he is at the top or you are, he knows it. when cesar walks in, the first thing he does is disrupt that, placing himself immediately at the top. with no information to the contrary, the dog will have to accept that cesar is king. when he leaves, i bet 9 times out of 10, the dog resists accepting the owner as the alpha, and will be a pisser again shortly. to market your success on the simple fact that a dog will accept a NEW person as dominant is wrong, because it gives the impression that the same actions will lead to someone with an established hierarchy breaking that in as few tries as he does. that is a lie, and therefore crooked. ergo, i don't like cesar. |
jason wrote: Cesar Millan is the worst thing that has happened to dogs. EVER!!No formal training, no classes in college. Simply calls himself an expert .He disgusts me. Working on a campaign to get him kicked off The National Geographics Channel.
for clarification, my only objection to him is his business practice. what exactly is the reason for this intense dislike? is it about the college classes? my friend flunked out of highschool and is a mechanic. he can fix things i don't know exist. i would not call him any less of an expert than anyone else just because of his lack of degrees. Bill Gates failed out of harvard, would you say he's not a master businessman? basically: why do you feel the need to take away someone's success via downtalk and 'campaign's against them? smells like jealousy. perhaps you can take a college class on good manners? |
Quote: Cesar Millan is the worst thing that has happened to dogs .I hardly think so. Calm, subtle communication and at least trying to read the dog's behavior is a big plus. The bad thing I see is how people take it as the absolute truth and follow one person's way like a cult. The worst things that happened to dogs is when people starting treating them like little robots, and using ill-learned training to force them to obey by using pain and intimidation. Quote: No formal training, no classes in college. Simply calls himself an expert . I agree 100% with this. Practice and knowledge based on theory developed as a result of good solid research is definitely required when it comes to animal behavior. Not just someone's "I tried it this way and it worked." I would always look for credentials when dealing with a "professional". Quote: Working on a campaign to get him kicked off The National Geographics Channel.
This does sound quite vendictive, but aside from that I agree with the endeavor. Dog training and behavior modification is not something that should be done on TV, because so many people will mis-interprete methods and results. The lack of follow-up concerns me, too, because people need to train their dogs, then have somewhere to turn when they run into a problem or a brick wall. Otherwise the dog suffers when it is misunderstood. |
Ed wrote: the big issue i have with cesar isn't his methods, for some pups, if it works, run with it. the issue i have is this: your dog has an established dominance with you, the hierarchy is there, whether he is at the top or you are, he knows it. when cesar walks in, the first thing he does is disrupt that, placing himself immediately at the top. with no information to the contrary, the dog will have to accept that cesar is king. when he leaves, i bet 9 times out of 10, the dog resists accepting the owner as the alpha, and will be a pisser again shortly. to market your success on the simple fact that a dog will accept a NEW person as dominant is wrong, because it gives the impression that the same actions will lead to someone with an established hierarchy breaking that in as few tries as he does. that is a lie, and therefore crooked. ergo, i don't like cesar. I think, in the interest of time, and to make Cesar look pretty incredible, they don't show you the parts where he transitions the owners over into taking the dominant role. I either read or saw an interview (I can't remember which now but I'll try to find it) where it said just that. They only have that hour so they get to the point and don't show everything. Some of those people almost seem incapable of tying their shoes so I imagine the process of getting them to understand the concept of being the pack leader takes some serious time. Quote: Cesar Millan is the worst thing that has happened to dogs. EVER!!No formal training, no classes in college. Simply calls himself an expert .He disgusts me. Working on a campaign to get him kicked off The National Geographics Channel.
Wow, get a grip. All learning does not come in form of higher education. You can draw from life experiences to educate others about things without having to take a college class to do so. Dog training isn't an exact science, or brain surgery for that matter. Cesar has methods that work for some people. No one's forcing you to do listen to him. Channel your disgust and campaigning into something that will actually benefit people, like digging ditches or helping old ladies across the street. Or here's something even easier: change the channel. |
| Jason (or whoever you "really" are... since I think posting anonymous is a terrible feature/option when used to flame)
I'm pretty sure he didn't call himself an expert, but the label was put/given to him. He didn't get a show on National Geographic (somethign which is very hard to do and a goal for many guys who work with animals that you see on tv right now strive for) because he just some Joe who knew how to do train a dog to do a few tricks. He got the job because he's got talent. He had proven on a smaller scale to enough people that he was an EXPERT in his field. Talent that surpasses the hundreds of others who have tried and failed to be just like him. |
Joahaeyo wrote: Jason (or whoever you "really" are... since I think posting anonymous is a terrible feature/option when used to flame)
I'm pretty sure he didn't call himself an expert, but the label was put/given to him. He didn't get a show on National Geographic (somethign which is very hard to do and a goal for many guys who work with animals that you see on tv right now strive for) because he just some Joe who knew how to do train a dog to do a few tricks. He got the job because he's got talent. He had proven on a smaller scale to enough people that he was an EXPERT in his field. Talent that surpasses the hundreds of others who have tried and failed to be just like him. yeah, and you smell bad jason. |
ahhh, Ed. Missed you!  |
Joahaeyo wrote: He got the job because he's got talent. He had proven on a smaller scale to enough people that he was an EXPERT in his field. Talent that surpasses the hundreds of others who have tried and failed to be just like him.
Well that, and the fact that one of his earliest clients was Jada Pinkett Smith (Will Smith's wife) who, after having a lot of success working with him on their 2 Rotties, began highly recommending him to all her celebrity friends. She even sprung for an intensive English tutor for him for a year. It's seldom what you know, it's who you know. |
ahhh.. didn't know that. that's very interesting though. and i agree that something like that can definitely help push you through the door!  |
| It is often who you know and not what you know...Exactly.
And what is to say that celebrities or thier wives know any more about who to hire for help than anyone else? Many celebrities get their dogs over the internet from places like Wizard of Claws,and we all know where those dogs come from. I tried to find something about this campaign to the National Geographic Channel and found this: In Pat Miller's review of Cesar's Way in the May/June issue of Bark, Dr. Nicolas Dodman, director of the Animal Behavior Clinic at Tufts University's Cummings School of Veterinary Medicine, is quoted saying, "My college thinks it [Cesar's television show] is a travesty. We've written to National Geographic Channel and told them they have put dog training back 20 years." Both Pat Miller and Dr Dodman are highly respected well-known professionals in animal behavior. I have books by both of them. |
| Then again, that same school of veterinary medicine has provided me with extremely substandard care, in my opinion, in two out of two tries. |
| Wow, Ron. I completely overlooked that it was Tuft's.
Bosley's mom wrote: In Pat Miller's review of Cesar's Way in the May/June issue of Bark, Dr. Nicolas Dodman, director of the Animal Behavior Clinic at Tufts University's Cummings School of Veterinary Medicine, is quoted saying, "My college thinks it [Cesar's television show] is a travesty. We've written to National Geographic Channel and told them they have put dog training back 20 years."
Wow, that's spoken like a true academic. No faculty member could ever be wrong with all the education that they have. That sounds like a typical response of someone who's own methods have been threatened by something else that may possible work-- or methods that haven't been published in a journal to boost someone's dossier count. Probably important to point out that Cesar never calls himself a trainer anyway. |
Wow Jill, you know Cesar? Tell us all about him  Did he help you with one of your dogs? |
No, I'm afraid not. We're just having a torrid affair. Don't tell anyone.  |
LMAO!! Darcy turned in to Cesar!!  |
| <center>Shameless Plug Time!</center>
NEW!!! Cesar Millan's first year on the National Geographic Channel as The Dog Whisperer. The whole first year is in this DVD set, and the Amazon price is very good compared to the National Geographic Channel's price! (They get $69.99+S&H online, amazon is about $20 less plus it probably qualifies for free shipping!) Dog Whisperer With Cesar Millan - The Complete First Season (2004) DVD Box Set 
I believe this DVD set is due to be released TODAY! Update: It was released and has been a bit hit! Other Cesar Milan DVDs: Cesar Millan's DVDs Dog Whisperer With Cesar Millan - The Complete First Season (2004) DVD Box Set Dog Whisperer With Cesar Millan - Aggression (2004) Dog Whisperer with Cesar Millan - Volume 1 (2004) Dog Whisperer with Cesar Millan - Volume 2 (2004) Dog Whisperer with Cesar Millan - Stories from Cesar's Way (2004) |
Alright, Jill....give it up...I've been browsing all the threads this a.m. to get the scoop on your new avatar. What's the story??  |
Cesar and I have decided to run away together. That's all there is to it.
 |
ButtersStotch wrote: Cesar and I have decided to run away together. That's all there is to it.
Run over to my house, my dogs need all the help they can get |
| Oooh, Jill's taken a Latin lover! |
ButtersStotch wrote: Cesar and I have decided to run away together. That's all there is to it. Is he a calm, assertive leader?
Exercise, discipline and reward? |
| There are many rewards... |
 |
| I've always wanted a Latin Lover....should've posted that on the recent "dream" thread |
bestdogsx4 wrote: ButtersStotch wrote: Cesar and I have decided to run away together. That's all there is to it. Run over to my house, my dogs need all the help they can get |
Stacy wrote: I've always wanted a Latin Lover....should've posted that on the recent "dream" thread
The rumors are true. |
Beaureguard's Mom wrote: Stacy wrote: I've always wanted a Latin Lover....should've posted that on the recent "dream" thread The rumors are true. Ah, I think we need details |
| OMG!!!!!!! I checked the thread today thinking there must be some new scoop on the situation since the thread had grown so since I last read it. HOW YOU DIGRESS!!!!!!!!!!!! It didn't even "click" with me who it was in Jill's Avatar...................... GOD OLD AGE IS TERRIBLE!!!! I gotta spend more time reading!!!! |
bestdogsx4 wrote: Beaureguard's Mom wrote: Stacy wrote: I've always wanted a Latin Lover....should've posted that on the recent "dream" thread The rumors are true. Ah, I think we need details Holly, you know a well-bred southern-belle would never kiss and tell!  |
Beaureguard's Mom wrote: bestdogsx4 wrote: Beaureguard's Mom wrote: Stacy wrote: I've always wanted a Latin Lover....should've posted that on the recent "dream" thread The rumors are true. Ah, I think we need details Holly, you know a well-bred southern-belle would never kiss and tell! I think that says it all... |
It says nothing  |
| Holly....just for you, I'll see if I can find pictures. |
 Thanks Tammy, I figured if I sounded pathetic enough...... |
| If you want, I can just make up a story about Tammy and post it. I promise to make it extra interesting. |
 |
| Okay! You tell yours and then I'll tell mine and we'll see how they compare! |
ButtersStotch wrote: Wow, Ron. I completely overlooked that it was Tuft's.
Bosley's mom wrote: In Pat Miller's review of Cesar's Way in the May/June issue of Bark, Dr. Nicolas Dodman, director of the Animal Behavior Clinic at Tufts University's Cummings School of Veterinary Medicine, is quoted saying, "My college thinks it [Cesar's television show] is a travesty. We've written to National Geographic Channel and told them they have put dog training back 20 years." Wow, that's spoken like a true academic. No faculty member could ever be wrong with all the education that they have. That sounds like a typical response of someone who's own methods have been threatened by something else that may possible work-- or methods that haven't been published in a journal to boost someone's dossier count. Probably important to point out that Cesar never calls himself a trainer anyway. Here is the entire article to read with this quote in it: http://www.chicagotribune.com/entertain ... genews-utl |
ButtersStotch wrote: Cesar and I have decided to run away together. That's all there is to it.
[ Where? To court??? Looks like he needs an experienced public relations consultant ! |
| We don't need PR where we're going. |
ButtersStotch wrote: We don't need PR where we're going.
You're right! Just a legal consultant when word gets back to his home |
| I think it'll be hilarious when someone googles him and this thread comes up! |
| Poor James He's such a nice guy I hope he can move on with his life In fairness you should leave the dogs with him Jill |
|
Maybe someone should email Cesar the link! |
bestdogsx4 wrote: Poor James
He's such a nice guy I hope he can move on with his life In fairness you should leave the dogs with him Jill No one's leaving anyone. Cesar will be joining my pack. Of course, I'll be the pack leader. |
barney1 wrote: I think it'll be hilarious when someone googles him and this thread comes up!
Lol. That is funny. What a homewrecker I'll be if it's his wife. Shhh, don't tell anyone... |
ButtersStotch wrote: No one's leaving anyone. Cesar will be joining my pack. Of course, I'll be the pack leader. So I guess that would make you the alpha bitch then, huh |
bestdogsx4 wrote: ButtersStotch wrote: No one's leaving anyone. Cesar will be joining my pack. Of course, I'll be the pack leader. So I guess that would make you the alpha bitch then, huh As always. |
bestdogsx4 wrote: ButtersStotch wrote: No one's leaving anyone. Cesar will be joining my pack. Of course, I'll be the pack leader. So I guess that would make you the alpha bitch then, huh Spitting soda all over the computer!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! |
Tasker's Mom wrote: 8O
Maybe someone should email Cesar the link! and the way this story is going........... Oprah ! |
| Nahhhhhhhhhhhh, I think this is one for DR PHIL!!!! |
Tasker's Mom wrote: Nahhhhhhhhhhhh, I think this is one for DR PHIL!!!!
May as well toss in Judge Judy |
| I wonder if Oprah, Dr. Phil and Judge Judy would do a panel eval of the situation???? |
| LMAO |
| News flash-----
ButtersStotch was just seen leaving Taco Bell and heading for the border......... for a book signing
Thats why we haven't heard from her |
I just heard she was in Kalamazoo working at Burger King with Elvis! Could it be they split already That would be so sad if it's true  |
Tasker's Mom wrote: Spitting soda all over the computer!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! You need to stop drinking soda when you read this forum! |
Ron wrote: Tasker's Mom wrote: Spitting soda all over the computer!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! You need to stop drinking soda when you read this forum!Well, at least it's always diet so it doesn't leave the keys TOO STICKEY |
Tasker's Mom wrote: Ron wrote: Tasker's Mom wrote: Spitting soda all over the computer!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! You need to stop drinking soda when you read this forum!Well, at least it's always diet so it doesn't leave the keys TOO STICKEY It would only be an emergency if it were Geritol!
Enjoy your diet soda!!!!!!!!! |
| |
| GOOD LORD, I wouldn't take such a risk with my GERITOL, I need it too badly!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! |
bestdogsx4 wrote: I just heard she was in Kalamazoo working at Burger King with Elvis! Could it be they split already
That would be so sad if it's true Um, no. I'm pregnant with Elvis's baby but Cesar and I are still together. Let's watch the rumors here, ladies-- and Ron. |
Tasker's Mom wrote: GOOD LORD, I wouldn't take such a risk with my GERITOL, I need it too badly!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
And a one, and a two ... |
| What's wrong with Lawrence Welk? |
Thanks for clarifing that one, Ron. I didn't "get" Zahra's reference!  |
| I have read Paul Owens' book and attended his class. He ACKNOWLEDGES AND RECOMMENDS the work and advice of other dog trainers and behoviorist experts in both his writings and during the course of his teaching/training work. So when he criticizes the methods of a trainer or distances himself from this one in particular, it is not a matter of self aggrandizement, but the professional opinion of a highly expert and qualified individual. |
Bosley's mom wrote: I haven't watched the show, but have viewed his website and read both positive and negative comments about Cesar on various sites and forums.. Here most people seem to think postively about him and his methods. I, being a positive trainer, have decided to take the opposing stance, to even up the sides, so to speak. You have too watch the show to judge him and remember that they are dogs not humans. Paul Owen. a highly respected and well-known dog trainer/behaviorist, wrote a book called " Dog Whisperer" a few years ago. He does not have a TV show, as far as I know. He has these comments about Cesar. Quote: Q: You indicate on your website that you are not affiliated with the National Geographic program, "The Dog Whisperer” which features Cesar Millan . I've never seen him use inappropriate or violent techniques with animals so why are you distancing yourself from him? A: The methods demonstrated by Mr. Millan include the use of choke collars, jerking, hitting, pinning to the ground, etc. He has stated that any method is okay to use as long as it works. He uses physical punishment and “flooding” in order to suppress a dog's behavior. Physical punishment involves applying a physical aversive to reduce the probability of the behavior continuing. “Flooding” refers to physically forcing a dog into an overwhelming situation he or she is afraid of until the dog “shuts down” or the behavior is suppressed. Using negative methods with fearful or aggressive dogs is dangerous (as demonstrated on the program) and unnecessary. Most importantly, these methods are not the most effective in modifying problematic behaviors. And they are certainly not very easy on the dogs. Behavioral science has shown that suppressing behavior, especially through physical force or the threat of force, does nothing to bring confidence to a fearful dog or calm an aggressive dog, it only suppresses that behavior (out of fear) in that particular situation. Most of the physical-force methods demonstrated on this program are in contrast to the positive behavior modification programs used by professional trainers around the world, including the leading veterinary schools of behavior at University of Pennsylvania, Tufts University, Cornell, University of California at Davis, and many others. They have found negative training to be unsafe, unnecessary and ineffective in the long run. Thirty years ago I used most of the negative methods shown on the National Geographic program and became skilled in both positive and negative training. In the past 15 years, along with other professionals and the leading animal behavioral scientists at the institutions referenced above, I have abandoned negative training, finding it to be less effective and certainly not as kind as positive training. I believe positive training is easier and more effective with even the most aggressive or fearful dog, as well as being less stressful for the human. I recommend that you interview trainers and find out the methods he or she uses before hiring him or her. I further recommend getting referrals and watching the trainer in action. Only then can you can make an informed decision and choose for yourself the methods you will ultimately use. Source:http://www.dogwhispererdvd.com/faq-national_geographic_dog_whisperer.htm It is important for people to understand the impact, both short and long term, of what they do to their dogs in the name of "training" and "behavior modification". I personally have a philosopy, that pretty well means don't ever do anything to hurt or scare your dog. |
| i am an educated, informed applied animal behavorist. do some research, Paul Owens wrote his book "dog whisperer" before cesar milan was created. the only sour grapes that exist between behavior professionals is when someone is harming animals mentally, emotionally, and or physically. those of you that think that cesar's methods do not harm animals need some education in the filed of behavioral sciences before you can make such a claim. how can you all have any opinion and make any statements regarding the effects of behavior modification methods without any education? you wouldn't tell a surgeon how and why to perform your surgery, and you wouldn't let your plumber perform your surgery, so please leave behavior modification to those of us with a complete formal education in behavioral sciences and stop defending and admiring a made for t.v character when none of you have any scientific background or evidence to back up your arguments. "because it works" is not a valid argument, anorexia works to loose weight so why aren't doctors recommending that the 7.8 million obese people in this country subscribe to anorexia? silly me, when i need to shed some pounds i go to a nutritionist and a personal trainer- you know, people with an education on how to do it correctly without harming my body. think, people, THINK, don't simply follow and swallow what one person is spoon feeding you- THINK!:!: i find it absurd that so many uneducated people have formed an opinion, voice it as a fact ("cesar's ways do not harm dogs") and stand by it, all the while with a closed mind because you all shut the door after you were convinced that cesar's way is the only way and anyone that says otherwise is just jealous or has "sour grapes". you people sound just as idiotic as those kids on day time talk shows that simply repeat "not ugh, you're just jealous" as their defense. remember, a mind is a terrible thing to waste...good luck in life sheeple.....by the way i can safely arrive at the conclusion of the lack of education because no one with an education in behavioral sciences agrees with cesar's methods. that would be as ridiculous as me trying to tell you that i know for a fact that 2 plus 2 really does equal 5 and you're just jealous of the money that my teacher who taught me to add makes. |
| Do you have an opinion on man-made global warming? Are you a geoclimatologist?
Do you have an opinion on government? Are you a polisci major? Do you have an opinion on taxes? Are you an economist? Do you have an opinion on cosmetic surgery? Are you an MD? Do you have an opinion on grammar? Does your keyboard have a "Shift" key or an "Enter" key? |
| Oddly, this "guest" poster seems familiar. (or maybe it's just me.)
Quite a reaction anyway. I have lots of opinions, and very limited formal training. That doesn't mean I can't do lots of things very well. Lighten up dynodogs -it's just a discussion, it's just a forum and we are just people, and we just have opinions. Maybe you're just having a bad day. It happens Shellie |
Ron wrote: Do you have an opinion on grammar? Does your keyboard have a "Shift" key or an "Enter" key?
Especially that one!
(chill pill, dynodogs) |
| I HATE when people write one big paragraph with no breaks. I never want to read it and have to force myself. Then again, I prefer writing in all lowercase and using a lot of ...'s, and I know that annoys people too! |
| caesar millan knows what he is doing and he never uses physical force at all. you're a damn fool. |
| Well THAT'S hardly polite! Coming into someone else's home and calling them names- shame on you! I f he knows what he's doing, why have dogs died under his care, and their owners sued him for cruelty? AND he settled out of court- if he wasn't being maligned, why would he settle? http://www.legalparamount.com/dog-whisp ... t/2009/11/ |
| I agree that it was rude of that poster to come here and say that, but... Just because he settled doesn't make him or his people guilty of anything. That is a very short sighted statement .IMHO Sometimes you do things just to get to the other side. I totally understand that someone can ruin your reputation even if you haven't done anything wrong. Think about it. Especially with Cesar's popularity, people see dollar signs over a hang nail. Shellie |
Didn't find exactly what you're looking for? Search again here:
Custom Search
|
|
| |
|
|
|
|
|