AIHA
I was hoping that there would be someone out there that would have some experience with this disease. My 6 year old son Aspen was recently diegnost with this and I'm afraid to feed him something that might hurt him and in the city were we live there hasn't been a great deal of cases he is on prednisone but are only 2 days into treatment and one day out of the hospital when he was small he had irretable bowel syndrome and the only food that agreed with him was nutro max rice and lamb, the doctors here want us to change that and our breeders say this is there first case.[/img][/b] |
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| Let me first say hello and weclcome,I have never heard of this before but I have just done some research, This is what I came up with. Hope it helps. We all need to learn about this. What kind of dogs it effects, some more than others?
so sorry that you are going through this. http://www.geocities.com/aihadogs/ |
| http://www.merckvetmanual.com/mvm/index ... /60205.htm
This also has some information. I'm so sorry for you, I hope you find something that can help. Also, do not hesitate to call a specialist at any vet school such as Michigan State or Colorado State. |
| This is such a hard call most of the sights have slightly conflicting opinions. Our emergency vet recommends the removal of the spleen.
Thank you for your research I'm willing to read anything that could help him. |
| Look in on the post often Aspen. There are many members that have info.
This is a slow night because of the Holiday. You will get more replays soon. I really feel for you. We lost our 6 month old OES on Nov. 2nd due to SAS. Its a heart condition. Most always fatal. I posted that in the medial section. I had never heard of it. Keep your hope up there. You never know what else is out there. |
| I'm so sorry to hear this... it is very common in OES unfortunately.
There is treatment though, a course of prednisone is usually the first step. Platelets need to be restored somehow, the prednisone will help with that. The dogs own immune system is destroying it's own red blood cells, prednisone suppresses the immune system, and gives the dogs bone marrow a chance to replenish. The disease is believed to first be genetic, or at least the predisposition to it is genetic, and then triggered by vaccines. I don't know why your vet wants you to change foods, and I'm not sure why they want to remove the spleen. That doesn't make sense unless there is a tumor in the spleen or something which would not have anything to do with the AIHA. To keep your dog healthy you need to watch closely for lethargy or any other unwell symptom, because it can and almost always will, reoccur. It can be kept in check, with occasional courses of prednisone, which should be at least 2 weeks in duration. If you don't feel comfortable with the recommendations your vet is making, by all means, get another opinion. This is your baby. Good luck, and please let us know how it goes  |
| I am so sorry to hear about your boy. Must be such an awful time for you at the moment.
Your vet recommends removal of the spleen due to AIHA affecting the Spleen and also can affect the liver. So that is maybe an option down the track. You have only just started on prednisone so wait and see if that settles his antibodies down in the system. Responses to corticosteroids are often good although some individuals have periodic relapses and a few fail to respond at all. There is some evidence that failure to respond to treatment is related to the characteristics of the anitbody involved. Having a pup that had irretable bowel syndrome, I can understand your reluctance to change the diet. BUT if your vet wants to try him on something else there must be a reason for it. You can start very very slowly the transition in the kibble, doing it over a period of a few weeks. Start with just a handful of the new kibble, adding it to what he is use too. If no reactions after 3 days, gradually increase the amount again, so on and so on till he is on the new food. If this does not work and it is affecting his bowel then speak to the vet again and also ask does he need this different kibble as part of his treatment? I hope all goes well for you and hugs to you and your boy at this stressful time. AHIA is common in many breeds although more common in bitches then dogs and is often not seen till they are young adults. |
| I'm so sorry to hear about your 6 month old that is so sad. I think that I'm going to trace his ckc records to see if any one knows if his ansestores had the same illness, I know his mom is in ontario and that her back ground was of Austrailian decent I plant on having him nudered when he is well enough because even though he has his championship I wouldn't want any of his puppys to suffer from this.
We did start to change the food before he crashed medi vegi if you put one kibble in the bowl full he wont touch the whole bowl, then we tried eukenuba fb vet and after the second day thats when he went to emergency. He just got back from the hospital and his count was at 21 which the doctor thinks is very positive because he resonded so soon. |
| All I know is that it is a problem with the red blood cells. They are being destroyed by the body. It is a breed predisposition in Poodles, OES, Irish setters and cocker spaniels. It is also about 4 times more common in females than males. Treatments include:
1. improving tissue oxygenation and managing immune responce. 2. Glucocorticoids: recommended dexamethasone at 1.1-0.22 mg/kg IV every 12 hours; prednisone or prednisolone at 1.1mg/kg by mouth every 12 hours as well 3. Cimetidine or misoprostol to prevent gastric ulceration from the cortisone 4. sucralfate to protect from gastric ulcerations 5. Danazol: a synthetic testosterone that works together with cortisone 6. Heparin to prevent thromboembolism or DIC Owners should know that the prognosis for the animal is guarded. Approximately 30-40% of all dogs will die despite aggressive therapy, relapses are commen. That is what I know about it from what I learned in school. Im sure there is a lot of good information on the web. Try checking out VIN.com or AAHA.com or NAVTA. The given websites by the other people have lots of info on them as well. Removal of the spleen may help, its worth it if it really helps, watch out for other problems after removing the spleen cause it an important organ. Because its an immune mediated problem, its really up to the body to decide if it wants to keep attacking itself or not. The pred will help with that and maybe then the bone marrow can catch up and make more redblood cells and the body hopefully will be busy doing something else and it wont notice the rise in RBC. The best of luck with everything. |
| Aspen that is very hopeful and good that the count is what it is in such a short time. Looks very positive for him with just the prednisone treatment.
Keep the same kibble that he is use too, as there is nothing worse then that & also him not eating on top of all that is happening with him. Stay positive I know that is hard but you are over the first hurdle as they say, and he is showing a good response to the drug therapy. |
| Thanks that was info in a nut shell his spleen is 3 times the size that it should be and he did originally have a fever but after 2 weeks it is down those are his only signs he was still eating he just wasn't exited to eat he skipped one meal. 12 lb weight loss. |
| Hi Aspen,
Welcome to the forum. My previous OES Shaggy was diagnosed with immune deficiency thrombocytopenia which after reading the literature is one form of the disease. Don't give up hope!! Shaggy was diagnosed at age 9 and she lived another 6 years until she passed away at the age of 15 1/2. Education is the key and I poured over medical books at the library. I just returned home and saw this post but will write more tomorrow. Just wanted to say hi and wanted to offer support. Best Wishes Marianne and the boys |
| Welcome Aspen. I have nothing to add but by support and welcome to the group. It is so difficult when our puppers are sick, this group is a great place for support and information. I hope you will keep us posted and come back often. |
| Hi Again to you and Aspen,
Okay here goes from what I remember of my experience with Shaggy. Please note this occurred 8 years ago and my memory may be a bit foggy in some areas. 8 years ago she was diagnosed and passed away March 2004 , aprox 6 1/2 years later. I first noticed lathargy in Shaggy which gave me the clue something was wrong. One day I arrived home to find her laying on the floor and saw blood in her mouth. I rushed her to the vet and that's how I discovered she had Immune Deficiency Thrombocytopenia. Unlike what the two articles above suggest, I did stick with the vet's office I had always dealt with. It wasn't a small vet's office but had three working vets and ironically the first person that saw me that day was a vet named "Barb" whom was doing her locum (locum is a practicum in vet language.) Barb immediately recognized what it was, perhaps due to her recent schooling. I was told this disease is touch and go for many dogs , sometimes it proves fatal, and other times a few dogs walk away from it. The vet told me it was very much like human leukemia or aids as the immune system starts attacking itself for reasons still unknown. For Shaggy this meant a three day stay at the hospital and a diagnosis of "she might not make it through the weekend". They gave her a host of drugs and a blood transfusion. Unlike people any dog can give your dog a blood transfusion. Some vets have a list of volunteers that will do this but in my experience I would set up a few friends that can be on call for you with the okay from the vet. (I had another dog at the time) Blue ended up giving his sister a few transfusions over time and showed no ill effects but for a patch on his leg which was shaved. Shaggy made it through the weekend and was put on prednisone and chemo (in pill form). After a few weeks I had to question the quality of her life. Prednisone makes a dog really thirsty and bloated and she would lay there like a big lump looking very depressed. She was unable to go down the stairs and due to her excessive drinking and now having to eliminate every two hours I carried her down the stairs. It was heart wrenching to see my previous active dog turn into this and I constantly questioned the quality of her life. I know I repeated myself but am leading up to one of the tough decisions I made. Just before this happened, a friend had been diagnosed with cancer and was told there was no hope. There existed a controversial clinic in Mexico which dealt with alternative and holistic methods which wasn't funded or backed by our government. It supposedly had a good success rate for those deemed previous hopeless cases. He wanted to go there and friends had a fund drive to get him there for his last chance. Sadly he didn't get the chance as only one day after he arrived he passed. His widow brought home all the medicines she had been given and said perhaps Shaggy can use them. On a sidenote, interestingly enough how the clinic was started in the first place was by a doctor whose horse had an inoperable tumor. After noting the horse specifically ate a variety of plants and would look as if he was searching for them. The doctor started paying attention and apon the next visit the tumor had shrunk and eventually dissapeared. Now this can all be heresay and I can't say for sure if that really occurred but that was the arguement at that time. That animals will often seek out natural herbs to ease their afflictions if given the chance. I had a decision to make - should I try alternative methods or keep her on the prednisone and chemo? While I didn't use the medicines my friend gave me, I researched at the library. Now before I go further I should explain I'm not at all at health nut...far from it...I smoke, drink coffee and rarely eat a meal some days as I'm always on the go. I also don't want to give you wrong info or give you false hope as what I did with Shaggy was my own methods after discussing it with the vet due to what I found out in research. I poured over Gray's Anatomy Medical book and others at the library on Cancer (as this disease is very much like it). I read everything I could about it and all about immune boosters. I learned which ones were said to be successful in treating diseases like leukemia and learned for example that shark cartidge while tooted as a great immune booster is also a blood thinner so stay away from that, same with anything that contains garlic or onion as that too is a blood thinner. Shaggy's plalete count at that time was 10 (near death) while a dogs normal platelete count should be 175 if I remember correctly. I had nothing to lose, but saying that I realize I was taking a gamble but in her eyes I knew the life she was living was not a good one. I decided to try alternative methods boostered by the hundreds of letters I recieved from school children. You see, for 3 years Shaggy and I visited numerous schools and community centers educating children on dog behavior for the Humane Society. Shaggy was well known to many. She was not only my friend but my working partner and above all I loved her so much. I changed her diet first, now unlike Aspen whom has irritable bowel syndrome as a baby this might be difficult. Shaggy always was able to eat anything although I tried to be a good mom and feed her high quality dog food. I changed it after reading literature on what foods one should eat if they have cancer. I read there is something in chicken broth (like chicken soup) so the old wives tale about eating a bowl of chicken soup when you're not feeling well is based on some truth. Beta carotene veggies are tooted as excellent too as immune boosters when someone has cancer. I started making her chicken broth with a few bits of chicken and lots of beta carotene veggies such as sweet potatoes which have a high rate of vitamin C, carrots, and a few leafy greens like spinach. While that sounds time consuming it actually wasn't. It meant buying a few backs, legs, breast or whatever and boiling it in water and then retrieving it after a few mins to peel the meat off and then add cooked veggies. I was careful to make sure there contained no small bones in the food. It took only mins to prepare. I then gave her a series of three pills which are holistic and considered immune boosters. I honestly don't remember at this time what two of them were but one was Profavanol. Now interestingly enough this is made from grape seed extract and one of the post on this site mentions that grapes and raisons are dangerous to dogs. This is why it's very important you discuss this with a holistic practinioner or your vet first. One of my children was born with a birth defect and had low immune system and I (after researching on the net) had discussed with his Pediatrician ,giving my son Prafavonol when he was younger. She read all the reports and was very enthusiastic about this immune booster and gave me her okay. I also used it with Shaggy. Barb the locum student was amazing and would often call me up at home asking how Shaggy was doing. When it came time to bring her back in for blood work - her blood platlete count had gone from 10 , (remember near death) and dogs regular count was 175...Shaggy's had jumped to 200! The vet said it's like a miracle and whatever you've done ..don't stop. So that's my story, Shaggy lived another 6 years after diagnosis and passed away at the age of 15 1/2. There were times when I would see she was declining and would give her some medicines which would boost her immune system, as I didn't keep her on them for life but did continue to give her that diet and that of people food for the rest of her life. The vet said whatever works keep doing. To just do a visual check I would press on her gums like the vet showed me to check her. Pressing on the gums will make them turn white for a brief instance and then they return to the healthy pink. With dogs that have this disease the gums may be slow to turn back to pink or may remain white which indicates very low platlate count. It was then I would used medicines to boost her immune system. Now again a word of caution as it worked for me but was not based on published work other than what I read myself and did with her. In some ways I used Shaggy as a guinea pig as I took a risk but the alternative was her dying and I was willing to try anything to make her live but at the price where she would enjoy her life. Shaggy bounced back but I was always careful that she not injure herself as with this disease she could bleed to death. It meant not even allowing other dogs on our walks to go near her should they accidently nip her or rough house too much. Her bones were fragile too as once taking her to the groomer they dislocated her hips by making her jump off the grooming table even tho I had asked that she not be placed up there. It meant I always had to find some kind understanding soul that would groom her while she either sat or laid down on the floor. She raced around the yard, bounced and enjoyed her walks. If you hadn't known about her condition she looked like she was the same dog previously and above all she loved her life. With her passing, while so difficult, I accepted it as I felt I was given a reprieve. I had done all my crying 6 years before and felt each day with her was a blessing. When her time came to take that final visit to the vet I felt some solace in knowning I had done everything humanely possible for her. I pray for Aspen and you and I just wanted to share my experience I had with Shaggy regarding this. Please be careful before trying anything new and discuss it with some. Now some doctors/vets may not be as open to holistic alternatives as others. Get various opinions, read as much as you can about the disease or leukemia and although I don't even have to tell you this- shower Aspen with lots of love. Best wishes to you Marianne |
| I wish I had some brilliant advice but I am a brand new mom myself to a 12 week old baby OES. Just wanted to say that my heart goes out to you and I wish your pup a speedy, happy resolution. The people on this board are so amazingly kind and generous with sharing their experiences and knowledge so that should be a comfort of some sort to you. |
| Hi Aspen.
I lost my rescue oes last may with AIHA .His illness came on that fast i had lost him within 3 days.He is posted on the rainbow bridge under My little Dylan. I used http://www.cloudnet.com/~jdickson/ to read up on the disease .It is a very good website that has stories about dogs with the disease .It shows dogs with AIHA can lead a long and very happy life they just need a bit more looking after than most. Julianne & Mitch |
| Hello everyone we are sad to say that Aspen developed a bleed from the Prednisone and had to have 2 plasma transfusion along with about 6 new drugs but he is fighting hard to live with a pcv of 15. |
 I hope you get better soon Aspen.
Daisy and the boys |
| We're pulling for you!
Good luck! |
| Oh poor Aspen.... I hope he pulls through. |
| Just so you know, my parents dog had a count of 17 and he made it and is doing wonderfully now..... |
Keeping fingers, toes and paws crossed from us all, hoping Aspen will be OK.  |
| Hello Aspen is sending all of the specialist going crazy they can't make a %100 diagnoses he had a biopsy and one of the people looking at it say that its cancer and the other says it isn't. One lab on the blood tests says that it is either Lymphoma or luekimia so they ran another test today and his pcv went from 11-15 today and the other vet says that that is impossible if his bone marrow is not making platlets because of the cancer so I guess it is a never ending struggle to get the propper diagnosis and try to help him. After spending $6600.00 we are no closer to the diagnosis and very broke. |
| What about a vet school? Are there any close by?
They are often willing to take difficult cases so their students can get the experience - and they usually have the best of everything available. Removal of the spleen is often done for humans with ITP (low platlet count with an unknown cause) because the spleen is involved in the function of the immune system (and ITP is thought to be an immune-based disease ... maybe). It is sometimes successful. Oral chemotherapy is also used to disrupt the patient's over-active immune system (it shouldn't fight its own body). |
| I'm so sorry I have a boy with cancer that took some time to diagnose so I know that helpless feeling. Michigan State and Colorado both have great vet schools and maybe they can help. I hope Aspen recovers quickly. |
| I'am very sad to report that we have decided to put Aspen to sleep, unfortunately they finally diagnosed a form of Lymphoma that attacks the bone marrow and intestines and gave us the option of doing a week long dosing of chemo therapy that would be very painful and only gave him a 50-50 chance of survival and a long term chance at 6 months that he would probably suffer though alot of it, now that he wont eat and cant walk we feel its time to stop being selfish and let him go he is so sad he just stares off at nothing all day. |
| I'm so sad to hear this news. My thoughts are with you during this extemely difficult time. It's so hard, even when you know it's the most merciful thing to do. |
| I am so sorry to hear about Aspen. My heart goes out to you and your family. I'm sitting at my desk for the second time today with tears in my eyes.
Sheepie Hugs and Kisses from Bunkie. |
| Im so sorry to hear about Aspen...My thoughts are with you |
| I'm so sorry to hear this, it's all so very sad.
You've done more than most people could possibly do for Aspen, and you know that you've made the right choice. Our community is with you and here to support you in your tough decisions. |
| I'm so sorry about Aspen, it's so difficult when nothing else can be done. Sheepie hugs from all of us. |
| I'm so sorry to hear about Aspen.... it is the hardest, but ultimately the kindest decision you could have made. |
| Blessings to you and Aspen, very sorry to hear the news. Thinking of you both |
| so sorry to hear the news about aspen. thinking of you at this sad time we are all here for you. |
| Same here. I'm so saddened by your news about sweet Aspen. My thoughts are with you. |
| Thank you all for all of the info, Aspen died peacefully at 3:45 pm with his first dad (the breeder) present who really felt that it was time to end his suffering. I'll never forget the feeling of killing my son my best friend my furry baby. he trusted us un till the last moment of his life. |
| Please don't think you killed him, you released him from his pain. It was the right thing to do even though your heart is breaking |
| Euthanasia is the final gift you give a precious pet to end their suffering in a kind way... when living is too painful or too difficult. Instead of making him suffer 'til the end, you freed Aspen from a body that was failing him. Please know that what you did, you did out of kindness and it truly was a gift. I know you hurt and I am so sorry. Hugs to you. |
| thank you for the kind words his eyes did tell us that he wanted to go and he just went to the back of the breaders van to a blanket that he uses when he is forced to put one of his own pups down and rested as if to say he was ready for the next stage we didn't take him inside he died on my lap with out taking notice that his pain was over. |
| owww my heart is breaking |
| Me, too. |
| I'm so sorry. |
| So sorry to hear about Aspen
My thoughts are with you at this time. |
| My sincere sympathy to you. Please don't feel guilty: you loved him and did your best. I lost Bentley in May having looked after him for 14 months and still feel his loss in spite of Willoughby,my little sugar plum. Hugs from both of us. |
| So sorry to hear about Aspen.
please don't feel guilty. you did what was right and ended his suffering. As you said, the look in his eye said he was ready to go on and you allowed him to do that. |
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