Global Warming: Real or not, is it good or bad?

"Global Warming".

The phrase has become nearly universally accepted as fact, that we humans are warming the temperature of the earth. Are we? I don't know for sure, most scientists seem to think so. But that's not important right now... at least not for the purposes of this discussion.

Global warming also has been nearly universally accepted as "a bad thing." Is it?

Did you know that we're in the middle of an Ice Age right now?
Did you know that we're inside a 10,000(give or take) year warming cycle inside of an Ice Age, and that we're nearing the end of that cycle?

The last warming period ended very abruptly - within 400 years the world went from a climate similar to our current climate into a deep freeze, with ice sheets (we're not talking snow, think glaciers: hundreds even thousands of feet thick) .

So if we DON'T cause global warming... will there be ice sheets as far south as Texas?

Will there be mass starvation, many species extinct... no crops...?

So couldn't global warming be protecting the lives of our descendants a few hundred or thousand years down the road?

The point being -- we just don't know what the long term ramifications of our actions will be.

Here's some interesting reading:
Quote:
Cooling. Though the time at which the Eemian interglacial ended is subject to some uncertainty (it was probably around 110,000 years ago), what does seem evident from the sediment records that cross this boundary is that it was a relatively sudden event and not a gradual slide into colder conditions taking many thousands of years. The recent high-resolution Atlantic sediment record of Adkins et al (1997) suggests that the move from interglacial to much colder-than-present glacial conditions occurred over a period of less than 400 years (with the limitations on the resolution of the sediment record leaving open the possibility that the change was in fact very much more rapid than this).

Following this initial cooling event, conditions often changed in sudden leaps and bounds followed by several thousand years of relatively stable climate or even a temporary reversal to warmth, but overall there was a decline. Northern forest zones retreated and fragmented as the summers and winters grew colder. Large ice sheets began to grow in the northern latitudes when the snow that fell in winter failed to melt, and instead piled up from one year to the next until it reached thousands of metres in thickness.

As the cold grew more severe, the Earth's climate also became drier because the global 'weather machine' that evaporates water from the oceans and drops it on the land operates less effectively at colder temperatures and when the polar sea ice is extensive. Even in areas that were not directly affected by the ice sheets, aridity began to cause forests to die and to give way to dry grassland, which requires less water to survive. Eventually, much of the grassland retreated to give way to deserts and semi-deserts, as global conditions reached a cold, dry low point around 70,000 years ago (this is called the Lower Pleniglacial). By this time, most of northern Europe and Canada were covered by thick ice sheets.
Source: http://www.esd.ornl.gov/projects/qen/nerc130k.html
[Note: After 11 years, the source material has been moved (or removed) from ornl.gov. Fortunately we have the "Wayback Machine!"
Click here for the original source material -Ed. 3/10/2017]

The REAL issue is then, are we putting ourselves in danger of creating a truly runaway greenhouse where temps get so high as to make the planet inhospitable, or are we destined for a return to an Ice Age which would make the planet inhospitable, or neither? How can we tell?

I am strongly in favor of fostering alternative energy sources anyway, I think we can generate lots and lots of energy from various forms of solar power, tidal power and wind power, and not have to burn as much fossil fuel.

Food for thought.
Respond to this topic here on forum.oes.org  
Long live life being good as long as I'm on the planet. ;)


I always wonder that too. Not about another iceage but definitely global warming.

Ever since I was a little girl and saw something on Seseme Street about "Clean Clear Water....Water-Water- Water" (sings to self) .......I preach and preach about not wasting water. I go bonkers when the water is left on while brushing our teeth. :P

Then again, I think with every improvement we make... there's bond to be some sort of side effect with most of them. Ex: One new device to save energy will cause an increase in radiation or cause species to hibernate later/wake up earlier thus screwing up their cycle and what they eat.

I believe in conserving, but I also live life hoping something Greater Above will take care of me when all hell breaks loose down here. ;)
More commentary:
Quote:
When the sun gets dimmer, the Earth gets cooler; when the sun gets brighter, the Earth gets hotter. So important is the sun in climate change that half of the 1.5° F temperature increase since 1850 is directly attributable to changes in the sun. According to NASA scientists David Lind and Judith Lean, only one-quarter of a degree can be ascribed to other causes, such as greenhouse gases, through which human activities can theoretically exert some influence.

The correlation between major changes in the Earth's temperature and changes in solar radiance is quite compelling. A perfect example is the Little Ice Age that lasted from 1650 to 1850. Temperatures in this era fell to as much as 2° F below today's temperature, causing the glaciers to advance, the canals in Venice to freeze and major crop failures. Interestingly, this dramatic cooling happened in a period when the sun's radiance had fallen to exceptionally low levels. Between 1645 and 1715, the sun was in a stage that scientists refer to as the Maunder Minimum. In this minimum, the sun has few sunspots and low magnetism which automatically indicates a lower radiance level. When the sun began to emerge from the minimum, radiance increased and by 1850 the temperature had warmed up enough for the Little Ice Age to end.

The Maunder Minimum is not an isolated event: it is a cyclical phenomenon that typically appears for 70 years following 200-300 years of warming. With only a few exceptions, whenever there is a solar minimum, the Earth gets colder. For example, Europe in the 13th and 15th Centuries experienced significantly lower temperatures and in both cases the cold spells coincided with a minimum. Similar correlations were found in the 9th Century and again in the 7th Century. Since 8700 B.C., there have been at least ten major cold periods similar to the Little Ice Age. Nine of those ten cold spells coincided with Maunder Minima.
Source: http://www.nationalcenter.org/NPA203.html
All interesting thoughts, Ron...
I'm with you with holding back the all-out exclamation that global warming is here, that we caused it and that we are all going to destroy the earth in 10 years.
I know we have added a lot of pollutants to the environment and have taken away many trees and things like that, but is this global warming or a warming trend brought on naturally by the earth and we are just here to notice it (and have scientific resources to try and calculate things about it).
Now, I'm a California girl and to some that might make me fruity or nutty :roll: but I think that California is getting many things right out there...we are taught from birth :wink: to save water (like Jo said, turn it off while you brush your teeth), etc. and I think growing up in the CA environment you just have a natural awareness of conservation.
One of my biggest concerns is the growth of San Diego county (and everywhere, really) because even in the past 10 years or so, you wouldn't be able to recognize some areas because of the amount of construction added to the area. The pretty hills are gone--well, the hills are there, but they are covered in town homes...
I don't know what to think about all this--it is so complex and there are so many angles and aspects...
Oh boy Ron, you've touched on one of my favorite subjects! I wish I had time right now to reply, but I don't... soon though! LOL
I'm a meterologist, so I've had class after class after class that has discussed this. My take - the Earth is dynamic and self-sufficient. We're just in a warming trend at the moment. Things will adjust when it needs to.
I keep coming back to this wishing I had time to really get into my thoughts on the matter.
I'll make a couple of brief comments though. For one, the earth goes through cycles every 10,000 years or so, and these things have happened before, when there was no pollution from humans etc, so why would people think it won't happen again? I do not think it is soley humans destroying the environment causing "global warming", though we may be accelerating the process somewhat. It is simply more distressing because it is our lives at stake now. The neandrathals probably didn't realize that homo erectus was evolving, did not realize that they were to become extinct, and that a new form of human was to continue. We are still continuing along the evolutionary path. What will anthropologists think of what they find from our current time and way of life, digging up our lives 30,000 years from now?
Although I find some scientific explanations of things interesting, I find the best explanation of these current events to be found in the book of Revelations.

Whichever you believe, if tree loss is a part of global warming, after all the destruction we've just had within just the last couple months, rebuilding will take an enormous amount of lumber, etc.....

With all the rising costs of supplies, the lack of supplies, and everything else involved, I think the term "global warming" may end up describing more than just the temperature of the globe. I will pray for peace and perfect weather. :wink:
Is it real? Is it not? Human made? Natural cycles? Bit of both?

We still don't know, and we still aren't allowed to ask the right questions.

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