Meal time suggestions
He is perfectly quiet and calm while I am making his food and then the second I put his bowl on the ground he goes NUTS. Has this weird high pitched bark that he only uses at this time (he really doesn't bark much in general) and he'll go from door to door in the kitchen (both are baby gated) and bark at the cats (is what we're guessing). He started this I think when we came back from our wedding and brought him home from the doggy day care. The cats most of the time aren't a realistic factor (usually they are out of sight upstairs) but even if they are downstairs they never come into the kitchen). He slides all over the kitchen floor running and tripping to get to each gate. This really worries me especially because of his hips and I'm afraid that he's going to knock them out of their sockets. The only thing that works at all is to be right there standing above him saying EAT and the second he starts to walk or run away we say EAT again and he'll start to eat. But it is a constant battle and very frustrating. Like I can't even go to the other side of the kitchen (not a big room) to get my breakfast together for work, so this whole10 minute feeding period is a giant waste of time for me in the morning (you know what I mean). |
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| I make Chumley sit and stay rather far away from her bowl while I am placing it and if she gets up before I say ok, I take it up and try again. If she keeps doing it, I take it away and try again in an hour. If she leaves her food before she has finished, I take it away. Chumley is a big girl and the occassional skipped meal won't kill her.
From what you are describing, my inclination would be to take it away from him when he gets antsy and see if he gets the message. But maybe I am heartless. I will be curious to see what others recommend. |
| Maybe wait to feed him until after you're done eating, then feed him and stay with him in the same room? |
| It sounds like it might be partly him being angry that he knows you're leaving soon. He's got the routine down and when the food comes down, he knows you'll be taking off so he acts out to both get your attention and keep you from leaving. I think our dummies are smarter than we give them credit for. Every morning before we leave, Clyde gets a bowl of ice cubes. We used to put them in his crate and as soon as he heard the machine, he knew we were leaving and would go upstairs. As he got older, he'd hear the noise and just go in the crate on his own. He finally figured out he was going in the crate no matter what and he'd get the ice cubes faster if he went!
Is it possible that he's just not hungry in morning too? Could you just feed him when you get home from work so it wouldn't be such a process in the morning? |
| Valerie--that's what we pretty much do right now. And, the fixing and waiting is not the problem, it's when the bowl hits the floor that he goes crazy.
This morning he was being so obnoxious that I did take his food away from him (yep, we've noticed he is filling out quite nicely so he won't be hurt by the occasional skipped meal either!  )
He does this for both meals. The morning one is pretty much a feed, poop, and leave situation, whereas the dinner one 99% of the time we're there for a long time. And he's equally crazy. Ron--we don't leave the room when he's fed. Occasionally we'll run up to some other part of the house to grab something, but the majority of the time we're just in there watching him eat. With his craziness we can't even go to the sink to wash off the spoon we used to mix his food, so I'm stuck standing there with this drippy spoon for however long it takes him to eat. On another note, I mentioned that I was having a really hard time getting Barney to come back inside in the mornings (especially the month my husband was away) and someone suggested giving him a treat when he is good and comes in (b/c he knew that coming in meant that I was leaving) and now he runs in happily and stands next to his closet that holds the treats! |
barney1 wrote: Valerie--that's what we pretty much do right now. And, the fixing and waiting is not the problem, it's when the bowl hits the floor that he goes crazy.
Got it. But I'd still take it away as soon as he started acting crazy. |
| My morning routine may be somewhat similar. Some mornings I may have a late schedule which gives me time to take each for a short training walk, and some grooming. If not eitherway, I eat a quick breakfast, then I give them each their morning bowl, a lesser amount than they get in the evening. They have about 15 min. to finish it, while I get ready for work; sometimes they are hungry in the morning, sometimes not. Either way when I'm ready for work, the bowls get put away and they get put outside, unless the weather is too warm. And I leave. No grand goodbys. What I do is none of their concern. Make a big deal of leaving and they play the separation anxiety game. If they don't eat in the morning they are usually very hungry in the evening. They still wait till I'm done eating.
Don't make a big deal of his antics. It only reinforces them. |
Have you tried mixing the bowl of Barney's food then stand and eat a cracker or something, then put it on the ground and leave him to it? If he runs over to you then you have to pick the bowl up and act as if he is finished. This was in the book "The Dog Listener" by Jan Fennel. Have I mentioned I love this book?  Probably 1000 times...LOL! I really think after a few times of not getting to finish, or even start his dinner, Barney will get it! 
I never stand by Gooch while he's eating, this apparently shows that I am the submissive one waiting for my turn to eat...or something to that effect. Maybe Barney goes so bananas because you show him that you are the alpha in other aspects and he's confused that you aren't eating first? Just a thought!
Colleen and The Gooch=>I understand Barney...Mommy hates when "act up" too!  |
Sir Gucci's Mom wrote: Have I mentioned I love this book?
Probably 1000 times...LOL! Wha? Never heard of it. SIKE!
I agree she has some very humane ideas for exhibiting dominance through nonchalant, neutral behavior. Works for me, but I think I lucked into getting a pretty submissive dog. |
| Perhaps downplay mealtime. I do just as Valerie does; I find that if I fill Zora's bowl without her in the room, she will eat when she likes. Should I fill it with her nearby, she seems to find the food to be play. I have also noticed that she will eat in small sessions, perhaps 2-4 minutes at a time, never eating the entire meal (full body on the ground, hugging the bowl). She then leaves the area to play and returns--eating in small increments (perhaps she is French?). |
| Okay. Next phase in the saga.
But first--I'm not sure that I make meal time 'an event.' As far as I can tell, it is pretty straightforward. Just feed and stand back. So yesterday was the first day that I took away Barney's food when he wasn't eating it and just running around like a madman instead (my husband fed him last night and said he was ravenous, which could be a good thing so he will just concentrate on that) and so this morning I thought that I would try to be more assertive before giving him his food. We used to make him sit before he got to eat, but that started getting difficult when my husband was gone that month and he really started running around like crazy instead of waiting for the food (he used to sit by where his food bowl goes and would wait until the bowl was placed on the ground and we would say sit, he'd sit, then we'd let him eat). But that was before all the crazy dog antics. Since I am running late most mornings (my fault, I know) I didn't really have time for his antics and just started putting the bowl down. So this morning I made up his breakfast and then decided to wash off the spoon first (instead of after placing the bowl on the ground) and he started going crazy at this point (instead of bowl on ground point). So once he realized it wasn't on the ground yet he stopped. Then, I picked up the bowl and Barney came over and I said sit. He didn't sit. I repeated this several times. No sitting. He actually backed up a few steps. So then I went to grab his collar so he could at least see me (he was somewhat behind the island) and then he started peeing. Any thoughts? |
| I feel for you! Getting Bailey to sit when he doesn't want to is a battle of wills. It just takes a lot of time and a lot of patience, both of which are in short supply in the mornings! He also has a tendency to look away ("la la la la, I can't hear you"). He's not allowed out the door until he sits, so if he won't sit I just walk away. Eventually he sits - usually right in front of the door so I can't open it, LOL! Then I have to make him move and sit again. But I have no experience with the peeing thing - when Bailey pees in a house it's unrelated to any command or discipline, he's just gotta go. |
| I have no idea why he would do that and this is just a random thought, but have you tried putting the food down when he's outside (if your yard is fenced) and then it's just "there" when he comes in to find it?
I guess that sort of goes against the whole asserting yourself as the alpha thinking, though. Not sure if it'd work or not.  |
| Carl does the "going crazy" thing too but he does it when we are getting ready to go somewhere with the dogs. I have no idea how it stated but I think it's because it's pretty exciting and he's showing that excitement. I haven't been able to really break it yet. I have gotten him calmer by ignoring him. I also found that slowing down helps. Like you, when we're in a rush it really amps up his behavior. If I just wander around while getting things together, not run in a mad rush, telling them to hurry and willing them to be good, it really helps.
I've also tried to be assertive and tell him to settle and sit and stay but he gets a very sorry, sad look on his face like he's done something terribly wrong. (No peeing though.) Part of it could be because the routine was interrupted. She makes the food, I run like mad then I eat. This time you really got in his face and he had no idea what to do so he was submissive and peed. It may be helpful to calmly and quietly remove him from the situation, lead him to another room, when he goes crazy. |
| I'm a no authority, I can assure you, but I'll try! The only thing I would do is change his meal time. Perhaps feed him first thing in the morning when you're having a coffee or something, so you're nearby and there's no rushing around. Maybe he associated his meal with something he doesn't like (ie. he knows you're leaving soon) and changing the routine might calm him. The thing I struggle with is that the simple things I do that I don't think about have such a huge impact on the hairy one...! My money's on seperation anxiety and that the pup's trying to prolong you staying...I know Harry's sneaky that way. It's scary that I really have to think about things to ensure my dog doesn't outsmart me!!! Best of luck |
barney1 wrote: Okay. Next phase in the saga. But first--I'm not sure that I make meal time 'an event.' As far as I can tell, it is pretty straightforward. Just feed and stand back. I'm not sure but from your earlier messages, it sounded like you were standing back but telling him to eat. If he doesn't want to eat -- or if he runs around -- why not just pick his food up and try again at the next mealtime? I guess I think with a couple skipped meals, he would get the idea. barney1 wrote: he used to sit by where his food bowl goes and would wait until the bowl was placed on the ground and we would say sit, he'd sit, then we'd let him eat. I make Chumley sit several feet from her food bowl so I can place it and move out of the way before she is released. The first few times, I had her on a leash so I could restrain her and take away the food bowl if she started too soon. barney1 wrote: So once he realized it wasn't on the ground yet he stopped. Then, I picked up the bowl and Barney came over and I said sit. He didn't sit. I repeated this several times. No sitting. I would stop there and try again at the next mealtime. barney1 wrote: He actually backed up a few steps. So then I went to grab his collar so he could at least see me (he was somewhat behind the island) and then he started peeing.
Any thoughts? To me, that sounds like he was scared and the peeing was submissive to show you he doesn't know what you want him to do. I'm not sure why he would need to see you if he can hear your voice. I really do wish you the best of luck. Sounds like mealtime has gotten frustrating for both of you.  |
I don't have any more advice...just lots of sympathy!  I hope tonights supper goes better!
Colleen and The Gooch |
| I agree--I think this might have something to do with separation anxiety. I do feed him, poop him and then leave, but I pretty much have to. I don't have a lot of time in the morning and so I can't just hang around for any length of time. I'd love to, but I'm late every morning to work as it is.
He also does the crazy thing on weekend mornings where we are both just hanging around and it doesn't seem to have any effect on his craziness. Quote: I'm not sure but from your earlier messages, it sounded like you were standing back but telling him to eat. If he doesn't want to eat -- or if he runs around -- why not just pick his food up and try again at the next mealtime? I guess I think with a couple skipped meals, he would get the idea. Valerie, before all this crazy started, I would feed him and then go about gathering my breakfast to take to work. Now, if I step away from him he starts to run around, so each time I say EAT he goes back to his bowl and at least takes a few bites before trying to go crazy again, then I say EAT, etc. I guess as of yesterday I have started the taking away of his food. Hopefully we'll see if that works. Quote: To me, that sounds like he was scared and the peeing was submissive to show you he doesn't know what you want him to do. I'm not sure why he would need to see you if he can hear your voice. I guess he doesn't need to see me, but I wanted to see him so that I could show him I was serious that he needed to come over and eat? Or something to that extent? I think it was like a 'look at me I'm talking' idea for me, so I wanted him to make sure he was paying attention to what I was telling him. And I didn't grab at him in an agressive way at all--just took a step towards him and gently put my hand on his collar--didn't even pull him or anything, and then he started peeing. Quote: I have no idea why he would do that and this is just a random thought, but have you tried putting the food down when he's outside (if your yard is fenced) and then it's just "there" when he comes in to find it?
Tammy-I might try this. The only thing is that we try to feed him in one feel swoop and then let him outside. Otherwise he pees and comes inside and eats and then is filled up and then needs to go out sometime during the day (which we aren't there to let him out) and then we have a mess on our hands. Like the day that I wrote that I was so proud of Barney for telling me he needed to go out and I let him out, well, he came back in and ate the rest of his breakfast, and then of course didn't need to go out again 15 minutes later when I usually take him out before leaving for work and then came home after work to find some presents (and I could also tell that he had tried to eat the evidence-yuck!) All good suggestions, I will try some of them. If anyone else has suggestions (or these same people!) please keep 'em coming! |
| So my husband had already fed Barney by the time I got home from work yesterday and said all went smoothly. He said he ate like a madman (since he had no breakfast)...
So this morning, I set out to try again. I mixed the food and washed off the spoon and put it in the dishwasher--slightly more calm than usual (no skidding across the floor and slamming into things). So then I go over and pick up his bowl from the counter and say tell Barney to come over and sit. He just looks at me, and I repeat this several times (all in a VERY calm voice) and his back side is dipping, but not sitting. I didn't want to reach over and grab his collar in fear of pee, so I set the bowl on the ground (thinking maybe me holding it was confusing him) and he started to run around so I picked it up and he stopped running. Then I set it back down and said sit, which he did and then I said Eat, which he did. He tried once during his breakfast after that to chase the cat, but I was right there to say, very calmly, no. So hopefully this is the start to a calmer, more organized mealtime. Also, maybe he was happy because he went over to see his girlfriend last night (a nice golden lab--3 years old--she runs circles around him!) |
| Lol.....Barney is also playing the field too Glad things went better this morning..... |
| Yeah! Glad things went better for you today, Steph! |
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