Advice please.
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| Start with a herding breed, not a lap dog. These guys need training from all members of the family from day one. Not Army drills, but the hierarchy in the family and the dog is not the top. Your son in law never interacted with the dog, didn't feed, brush, walk the dog. If there was any training, he wasn't the upright involved. As a result, the dog sees him as just another animal in the family who has no authority. Any breed will react this way, but especially a herding breed who expects a more structured life. So no, they aren't more snappy...just untrained......unless they come from a badly bred line where temperament was not a critical feature. That can be said of any dog breed. I'm not impressed with the trainer. So now I imagine he wants to get rid of the dog. Son in law takes over feeding the dog, beginning with "boot camp" for them both http://www.greatpyreneeslibrary.com The first three articles talks about retraining both parties.....actually all parties, daughter and eventually children are a must read. |
SheepieBoss wrote: Start with a herding breed, not a lap dog. These guys need training from all members of the family from day one. Not Army drills, but the hierarchy in the family and the dog is not the top. Your son in law never interacted with the dog, didn't feed, brush, walk the dog. If there was any training, he wasn't the upright involved. As a result, the dog sees him as just another animal in the family who has no authority. Any breed will react this way, but especially a herding breed who expects a more structured life. So no, they aren't more snappy...just untrained......unless they come from a badly bred line where temperament was not a critical feature. That can be said of any dog breed. I'm not impressed with the trainer. So now I imagine he wants to get rid of the dog. Son in law takes over feeding the dog, beginning with "boot camp" for them both http://www.greatpyreneeslibrary.com The first three articles talks about retraining both parties.....actually all parties, daughter and eventually children are a must read. ^^^This It has nothing to do with the breed, it has everything to do with the way they trained this dog. My OES is completely predictable, I can trust her around ALL children and my newborn son. It is completely their fault. The dog is in control. Your sil needs to be handling most of the re-training and they need to get a better trainer that is familiar with herding breeds. NO good trainer is going to blame the breed as a whole for a dogs behavior. It seems like a cop out so when the probably bad trainer fails them, the trainer can say it's just the breed. You said there seems to be no reason for the dog to be doing this. There is always a reason. Dogs don't just attack or growl. It's just a reason you don't see. Sorry if this sounds a bit harsh but it's the truth and because of your daughter and son in laws irresponsibility they are putting your grandchildren at risk. This should have been handled while your daughter was pregnant. Sheepdogs aren't dogs you can just get and do nothing with. They are herding dogs. You HAVE to be a strong leader because they think for themselves. As a new mom and a dog mom stuff like this angers me. It's absolutely ridiculous they let it get that bad. If the trainer was right and this breed is so unpredictable, this wouldn't happen on a daily basis. Disclaimer: My dog is trained. Has her CGC, CGCA, goes to training classes, does rally-o and was raised/socialized around children. I worked/trained with her every day for the last 3 1/2 yrs.   |
SheepieBoss wrote: So no, they aren't more snappy...just untrained......unless they come from a badly bred line where temperament was not a critical feature. That can be said of any dog breed. I'm not impressed with the trainer. Yeah, I'd definitely look for another trainer. She has decided the dog is "unpredictable and vicious," so at best she's already written him off, and at worst, she'll misinterpret and mishandle the behaviors she sees. It sounds like husband and dog need to work on their relationship, starting from the very basics. My husband and I "split" our responsibilities and our activities with Benson. I do agility, he does weightpull, I groom, he walks, and we both make sure we feed and treat in the same manner. She responds equally well to either of us. And, IMHO - get the dog off the bed! Clearly he feels possessive (and if he sleeps/naps with your daughter, there may be some protectiveness as well), so he needs to learn it is not his to control. Bed, sofa, armchairs - these belong to the uprights. Dog bed, dog blanket, crate - those are his (with the permission of the uprights). Good luck. I hope they find a workable solution. |
I've heard the unpredictable and vicious thing too. I tend to think that trainers who say that about herding dog breeds aren't well acquainted with herding dogs. I've heard the same thing about the rough Collie, which is commonly called a Lassie dog. Think about Lassie... always getting that silly Timmy out of trouble.  I tend to believe that dogs like this need a lot of structure, plenty of exercise, and they thrive with training. All of that is going to take a concerted effort with new babies involved.I don't see any problem with your son-in-law taking the dog to a back-to-basics class. I might choose a different trainer if you have more options, since it sounds like there might be a bias there. But really, obedience classes with the dog will help both your son-in-law and the dog, thus the whole family will benefit. As Grandma, perhaps you could offer to take dinner over for your daughter and her husband on class night. Or somehow make obedience class night less of a hassle rather than it adding more to their plates. In my experience, my husband did not enjoy coming home from work only to rush through dinner then rush to class. The weeks I remembered to start the crockpot early, made a huge difference in how obedience class went with my family. I wish your family good luck, and good training.  |
| Thank you. You had stated what I had tended to think and we did say when they first had Dougal. He is Sprockets litter brother so we got them at the same time. Daughter has always been around sheepys and used to "walk" one on them when he "met" her from playschool. That shows how well behaved they can be with training. She remembers that time and asks how we managed ok and she can't. It is like you say-her husband should had "put his foot down" at the start. He would over excite him and then wonder why Dougal would always leap at him and no else. He was allowed on the bed and husband was "scared" to get him off 'cos he growled-instant time to be firm,not allow the growling and teach that it is not the behaviour they wanted. Daughter found it funny but did tell him he must be firm and not let him get away with bad behaviour-not leave it all to her. She did the training,grooming and walking-feeding to. He works long days and weekends so she thought she was being helpful by doing it all. We trained them together when round each other's house and they were so good so I am amazed that he has got so scared but then he has been attacked by a couple of free roaming dogs on their walks. She had her twins at 27 weeks and then was in hospital for 3 weeks, then back and forth daily to hospital-husband didn't seem to think she needed to see and be with the tiny scraps of life every day. We had Dougal for his "maternity" stay-he was fine with us. Then he went home and Daughter still going to hospital and husband did lunch feed and let out-didn't think he wanted a walk. Sorry to "go on" I just wanted to tell the whole story-there have been rights and wrongs on both sides and to many "disturbances" in Dougals life. But for him to now start-I guess he has showed us in little ways that now made sense of what he was doing and none of us realised. I do feel partly to blame as being the longest term sheepy mum. In my defence I have been in hospital for a while and lots has happened while I was away. Thank you for "listening" to me.xx |
| You shouldn't feel partly to blame. Not your dog, not your responsibility. |
| Hope your daughter and twins are doing well. Sounds like you have been going through a lot and trying to take care of everything. Just being a Mother, that is what Moms do, try to fix everything with love. I am sure you are concerned for the twins safety. There are a lot of very experienced board members on here who can help you. Take a breath. I would make the bedroom off limits to Dougal until you get advice from the members. Sounds like your son in law may have been stressed out with the babies being born early and about Mom. Just wasn't thinking. We had a preemie in our family and it is very stressful for all involved. Hopefully things will settle down and son in law can be more active in Dougals training and he will turn out to be a great dog. Good luck. People on this board really care about the sheepies and their owners and try to help any way they can. I don't have their experience, but I can always listen and send you a hug.  Hope you are feeling better as well. |
| Thank you. It does help by just writing it all down. Yes, was a very stressful time. The twins were "hard fought for "over a good 3 yrs. So to be born to early and both ventilated. Both twins are doing very m |
| Sorry, I hadn't realised that the laptop had decided to "wander Off"" and not type my email !! Should have said that both twins are doing very well thank you.xx |
Our Maggie the coonhound is a rescue girl, and was afraid of everything at first. As she regained confidence (through hard work), she of course went the other extreme. She would lay in bed in the evening with my husband for a little while (our dogs do not share our bed - we have 6  , So only our cat shares the bed).She is his dog, and she came to see him as her savior! He goes to bed early, as he gets up really early - and I'm more of a night owl. I came into bed one night, and she lunged and growled at me as I reached to turn on my bedside lamp! Luckily Todd took action RIGHT away, and she got scruffed and thrown off the bed, in fact out of the bedroom. She lost all bedroom privileges for many months. It totally paid off though, as she learned her behavior never was good, and she doesn't hold a grudge or anything. Dogs live in a clear cut, black and white world. Ever since that time (about 6 years ago), she has been a sweet love bug still, and when we say move, she does it and she's happy.  Prompt and swift action is what is needed in a situation like this - and sadly this dog of your daughters has learned she growls and it makes the humans back down. Bad situation, as the dog learned she is the boss. Think about it - if a child got sassy like that, would you take that from a kid?? I doubt it. Because of the way dogs learn (swift corrections, and then they are over it), it's different than with humans. You can't sit a dog down and explain "you were bad and please don't do that again"  She should have been taken down several pegs the instant and very first time she even tried this. There are some situations where you can't be "nice guy" - and this was one of them. Some behaviors are just not ever acceptable! And that is how dogs work with each other. The boss is swift and to us can look excessive in the actions - but the guilty dog learns and respects the other. |
| Any news on your daughters dog and their plan of action? |
| They are now going to a class on Wednesday evenings so both can go if want to. Daughter wanted to see what like and what they do etc but Dougal did run to the buggy and her legs when got the opportunity to so may be best if she doesn't go but then husband not like to go and can't be strict etc which is why this all started but he won't listen (and is never wrong) anyway, they had Dougal just sit and watch and try to get used to other dogs-he barked a lot but stopped by the time the class ended. The other people were told to "give Dougal a wide berth as he has issues". See how the weeks go and how he is at home, husband is doing most of the "dog work" when he can around work. As for the twins-the boy who came home on oxygen is now officially ok and all the oxygen cylinders and machines etc can be taken away. (along with the "blue badge" so have to pay to park). I told her about the great comments I received on here so that was helpful as they made sense to her. Thank you. I will keep you updated but may forget so you will have to remind me!!xx |
| Any updates on how Dougal is doing? How are the twins doing also? |
| Hello. Sorry, haven't even looked at "the boards" for weeks now. All is very well thank you. The twins are doing great, Chloe has 2 teeth and Scott 1. They are both attempting to crawl and go backwards. They roll around to get where they want to. As for Dougal-he is a totally different dog. They put him on Burns food and husband takes him training weekly-they both enjoy it. Dougal does as they both say tho daughter does still shout to much at him. The twins can grab his tail or "give" him toys and Dougal just lays there with them just like my dogs did with my babies. He wont let anyone apart from family out of the door with a twin-he blocks the way but no growls, barks or anything-he just sits or lays in the way. If one of us goes anywhere near his tail he jumps up and "glares" at us but the twins can do what they want. We are teaching them to be gentle with dougal etc. So all is very well indeed thank you. And great to be back reading about my bestest type of dog. Sprocket is sitting on chair next to me "helping with a wet tongue.xx |
| That is wonderful news. Glad things are working out for everyone. |
| That's wonderful! |
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