Is an OES right for me?
My first post here  I currently have a 9 month old Bernese Mountain Dog. I've always intended to add a second dog once Maggie reaches 2 years+. I'm currently looking at a few different breeds, as I like to be very prepared in advance  My main desire in a dog is that they are not a breed that is constantly on the go. I love border collies, but not sure I could live with one! Bernese are known for being boisterous pups, but on the whole grow into pretty chilled out dogs (assuming they've been given enough mental and physical stimulation). So, really I am looking for a dog that would compliment Maggie in this respect. I ruled out OES the first time around as I understood them to need a lot of exercise, however I've met a few owners recently who has said that an hour off lead a day is about enough. With that in mind my questions are.... 1. How much exercise do you find they need to be calm in the house? 2. Are they a 'busy' breed? 3. Do they bark a lot? (Berner's are not suppose to be a very barky breed, but Maggie didn't get the memo) 4. What have you found the cons to be? 5. Do you clip them? (I have always understood them to be a double coated breed, and that you should not clip such a coat, but nevertheless I see a lot clipped, so wondered if this was the norm?). 6. Do they have any 'quirks'? 7. Have you experience many problems related to their herding instinct? 8. What would you describe their energy levels as? (ie high, medium, or low?) Thank you in advance anyone who takes the time to read all of that! |
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| 1. How much exercise do you find they need to be calm in the house? The younger they are the more exercise they need, along with LOTS of mental stimulation. My OES is 3 and she really didn't start calming til 6 months ago. That being said she can run and play all day long if I let her. When she is in the house, she is calm and sweet. That happened only because of training. She was a terror between 7mo-1 1/2 yrs. She tends to kind of get antsy when my husband doesn't do their daily 1/2hr of rough housing, no matter how much exercise she gets. They like their routines. 2. Are they a 'busy' breed? I'm not sure what you mean by this but they are pushy. They like to get what they want. They do like to entertain and be entertained. They are velcro to the max, you will never have an unsupervised potty break or shower. They want to be with you 24/7. If we are talking grooming, unless shaved their coat can keep you busy. 3. Do they bark a lot? (Berner's are not suppose to be a very barky breed, but Maggie didn't get the memo) Yes, yes and yes. They are talkers. I haven't met one that isn't. 4. What have you found the cons to be? Wet beard after they drink water and have to wipe it on you. The fact that lily's coat sucks up our shedding dogs extra fur and anything from outside. 5. Do you clip them? (I have always understood them to be a double coated breed, and that you should not clip such a coat, but nevertheless I see a lot clipped, so wondered if this was the norm?). I clip lily when her allergies get going and her skin gets bad. Yes they are double coated however they have hair not fur. It's not like a husky's, shelties, etc coat. You clip it and it will grow back the same. 6. Do they have any 'quirks'? Problem solvers, bossy and constantly silly. Everything they do is entertaining. Sheepdogs speak their own language. Happy go lucky attitude, nothing can bring them down. Somersaults, they do this as pups but some carry it through adulthood. 7. Have you experience many problems related to their herding instinct? It's harder to keep their attention in public and around children. They do love to run after anything running. Good recall is important. They tend to have control issues. They like to be in control. Lily would sit on little kids or pin them against a wall with her body if small children were running (just running. She was calm, gentle and tolerant otherwise, still is) for the first 2 yrs. Training stopped that for the most part. She still herds my husband. 8. What would you describe their energy levels as? (ie high, medium, or low?) Medium now but as a puppy, high, Lily was going non stop. They are completely wonderful dogs. They love to cuddle and be with their family. Once you have one it's hard to picture your life sheepdog-less. |
| Welcome to the forum! I'm not sure I can be much help with all your questions. Sam is our first OES and, being almost 8 months, is still in the puppy stage. That being said, if he gets a good walk each day and a few play sessions (his favorite is tug) he is pretty chilled out the rest of the time. Of course, he loves a romp in the park any time he can get it. He loves being with us and is the best cuddler I have ever seen. As far as being barky, he isn't much at all. He will sometimes bark at us if he thinks we should be playing with him instead of sitting and relaxing. We've started ignoring him when he barks and then playing a few minutes after he's been calm. That has really helped. Although, he does bark when the doorbell rings, or when someone stops their car to talk to us (which is a lot). This seems to be more that people are near him and not petting him. This breed definitely loves attention.  As far as the herding instinct, he nipped quite a bit as a little guy, but we were diligent about putting a toy in his mouth instead. Even now, when he gets really wound up playing, he will grab a toy and keep it in his mouth while we play. Since we don't show Sam, we keep him in a puppy cut (about 2-3 inches long). We love it! It only takes a few minutes once a week to brush him, unless, of course, he gets messy. The groomer at our vet's office kept trying to convince me to shave him, since that's the only kind of cut they do. We've started taking him to PetCo. They do an excellent job and are about half the price of the pet resort here in town that I checked with. Good luck choosing a new family member. I am so glad we chose OES! I can't imagine our family without our wonderful boy!  Here's a pic of my sweet Sam and I hanging out yesterday.  And him playing with my husband.  |
Eddie Walker wrote: Hi everyone, My first post here I currently have a 9 month old Bernese Mountain Dog. I've always intended to add a second dog once Maggie reaches 2 years+. I'm currently looking at a few different breeds, as I like to be very prepared in advance Welcom to the Forum, Eddie..... I am no expert, just a sheepie lover. I am currently on my 2nd OES so I do have a little experience. My name is Val and my first OES was a rescue, her name was Pearl and she lived to be 15-16 yrs old. We were involved in Rally, and she was a Therapy dog. My 2nd OES., Heart, was from a reputable breeder, we were involved in Rally, Obedience and is also a Therapy dog, she is 6 years old. My main desire in a dog is that they are not a breed that is constantly on the go. I love border collies, but not sure I could live with one! Bernese are known for being boisterous pups, but on the whole grow into pretty chilled out dogs (assuming they've been given enough mental and physical stimulation). So, really I am looking for a dog that would compliment Maggie in this respect. I ruled out OES the first time around as I understood them to need a lot of exercise, however I've met a few owners recently who has said that an hour off lead a day is about enough. With that in mind my questions are.... I guess the question for you is, do you want a puppy or an older, possible rescue. That will make a difference in the answers to your questions. 1. How much exercise do you find they need to be calm in the house? Most puppies, of any breed need alot of excercise to expend all that lovely puppy energy. Young pups, up to 6 months, should not be jumping, or running a lot due to the formation of thier bones. So, you have to be creative in your exercise program..possibly, throwing a ball? Or mentally challenging them, by playing hide and seek. There are many websites that will help you with a routine. Even then...OES puppies are just joyful, and precocious, and stubborn..so you have to be patient, have a great sense of humor, and get into a puppy training, socialization class as soon as your vet tells you it is safe. If you are interested in an older dog, possibly rescue...they may have baggage, but with patience, love and kindness they can be wonderful pets. And most of NOT as hyper as puppies, although OES's mature very slowing, so they still are joyful even till the end. 2. Are they a 'busy' breed? Oh...YES!!!! VERY Busy!!! Herding breeds are problem solvers and independent thinkers. 3. Do they bark a lot? (Berner's are not suppose to be a very barky breed, but Maggie didn't get the memo) My 2 were not barkers, until there was something to bark at. Again, training is a huge part of curttailing unwanted behaviour. 4. What have you found the cons to be? This breed is NOT for everyone. You must want a dog to be your shadow (we call them velcro dogs). They love to herd ANYTHING. Just when you think they get it.....they will show you they really don't and you must keep training. Training..training...to make sure they know you are alpha, you will protect them, you have their back...only then will they allow you to take the lead. The Coat is a huge hurdle. Puppy coat is easily matted, add to the fact that if your pup is not accustomed to being brushed, will be a battle, albeit, a gentle battle, to get them to sit still while you brush, brush, brush. When, finally, the adult coat comes in, about 3 years old, it will get a little easier and that is when you can trim them in a shorter cut. (puppy cut). But even then the coat needs brushing. Paw pads need to be trimmed, tusch and ears need to be cleaned. The breed is prone to hip problems, eye problems and certain cancers. This is not to say that ALL of the OES's are going to be afflicted, just mean, as with any breeds there are issues that OESCA and Heath and Research is working on. . 5. Do you clip them? (I have always understood them to be a double coated breed, and that you should not clip such a coat, but nevertheless I see a lot clipped, so wondered if this was the norm?). Personally, I would wait until the adult coat comes in before you begin to trim....again..this is only my opinion. 6. Do they have any 'quirks'? oh..NOooooo.... well...maybe....Heart has loved toilet paper since she was a baby. She sucks and paddles her sheepiestuffie when she gets upset. She used to dig with her nose, but, she outgrew that....  They have their routines....or I guess you can call them quirks....  7. Have you experience many problems related to their herding instinct? Well, they DO love herding and it is wonderful to see that 'lightbulb' go on when they see sheep!!! It is amazing to watch!!!! 8. What would you describe their energy levels as? (ie high, medium, or low?) Puppy...high......Teens.....high.....Adults......medium~~~But again, TRAINING will help with all these stages... Thank you in advance anyone who takes the time to read all of that! As you can see by this forum....there are many many people who find the Old English Sheepdog irresistable...and like Lays Potato chips...you can't have just one.... But, If I were you, I would read everything you can on the OES...access as many websites as you can...and stay here...ask questions. We have alot of experts, rescues, breeders, and just people like me who love this wonderful breed. Lastly, IF you do decide on an OES...please...please...PLEASE...contact a reputable breeder. Although you may think you are saving money with someone who 'just' breeds for the fun of it...A reputable breeder performs tests on the mom and dad to make sure there they will be breeding the healthiest pups...this is NOT to say, you won't get one with problems, but, with all the testing the chances are minimal... Good LUCK...keep us posted... And just for some grins...Here is Heart, at six months old...in the height of her piggy digging stage..... an hour after I washed and brushed her, I let her in the yard to wet and this is how she came back in......and I laughed....and laughed....  |
| 1. How much exercise do you find they need to be calm in the house? 2. Are they a 'busy' breed? 3. Do they bark a lot? (Berner's are not suppose to be a very barky breed, but Maggie didn't get the memo) 4. What have you found the cons to be? 5. Do you clip them? (I have always understood them to be a double coated breed, and that you should not clip such a coat, but nevertheless I see a lot clipped, so wondered if this was the norm?). 6. Do they have any 'quirks'? 7. Have you experience many problems related to their herding instinct? 8. What would you describe their energy levels as? (ie high, medium, or low?) I have 3 sheepdogs, 2 yr old (Gracie) and 4 yr old (Mady) sisters, and their 8 yr old mother (Virginia) (we got the 4 yr old first and the mother came after she was retired from breeding and got a puppy while we were at it ).I find mine tend to be couch potatoes inside, great for cuddling. The 2 younger ones will often indicate to me that they want to play outside with various adorable clownish behaviours. My first one hardly barked until we got the other ones, thankfully, they rarely bark indoors, but they will bark while playing and chasing at the dog park. The only con is the grooming requirements, the two younger ones have never been shaved though they do get scissor trimmed a couple times a year to keep the coat tidy and well-shaped, so far we have only entrusted this task to the breeder. The mother has been shaved and she is currently in a short coat. I wont sugarcoat it, keeping them looking like this is a lot of work with a steep learning curve:  Which is why probably the majority of people keep them in shorter coats, that still requires some effort and cost if you are having a groomer keep them trimmed regularly. I am sure that the grooming difficulties are one of the major reasons the breed's popularity has declined  . (the other reason is for some mystifying reason, people are tending to prefer having small dogs. I'll quote Ron Swanson from Parks & Recreation: "Get yourself a proper dog. Any dog under 50lbs is basically a cat, and cats are pointless."  )On the PLUS side about their coats, they do not shed, and tend to be hypo-allergenic (no dog is truly hypo-allergenic, just that an OES's coat makes it less likely for the allergens to spread). They have a lot of quirks, they are very special dogs, and they are individuals, my younger ones, though being sisters and both raised in our house from 8 weeks on, each have individual personalities and funny little idiosyncrasies. I do sheep herding with my dogs, all three have the instinct for it, and particularly the younger ones love it! I train the younger ones as much as I can but where I am, herding is a seasonal thing and it's hard to get the amount of training and practice I need. The 4 yr old has done several trials and received her first CKC herding title this summer. So... the herding instinct is something I encourage I guess! I also do agility with the younger ones. I love it as well, and can see myself going further with agility than herding because there are a lot more chances and ways to practice and train agility. Mady and Gracie really love agility to. They are working dogs, and love to do jobs! I would say they are high energy when outside and especially 'working' (whatever that work is, agility, herding, fetching, other dog sports) but medium to low energy indoors. People are surprised by just how fast they can be (and they are fast)! Especially with the full coat,they look and walk like lumbering, plodding bears, but as soon as they start running, wow! I had one agility trainer this summer whose first, brief impression of Mady was she was slow and hard to excite. I kept saying no no, I need to slow her down! When I took a course with this trainer, she was very surprised by Mady's speed and drive, and she loves Mady for it! She often says a lot of agility people believe speed and drive is the most important attribute for an agility dog, the rest comes after and easily if you have that. Well, I started with one sheepdog, and it was my wife and I's first dog ever. 2 years after that, we suddenly had three sheepdogs.  So that will give you an idea what I think about them. |
| I have a Newfoundland an a OES We got the Newfy first and he is similar to the Bernese in Characteristics, active for the first two years and then slowed down at 2. We also wanted a mate for the Newfy. We got the OES and haven't regretted it. Monty the OES barks at squirrels, rabbits, cats that he sees out the window and if he wants to play but not constantly and will be quiet if we tell him. Actually I find it funny when he barks as he wiggles his tail like crazy and is ducking and diving and generally acting silly. They are a clownish breed and some find this irritating, I think it is very cute. Actually my husband finds it a little irritating sometimes. My husband is a calm quiet person so he prefers the Newfy, I like like to be entertained so I find the OES more fun. The Newfy and OES get on very well. Monty loves the Newfy and will clean his ears and will wrestle with the Newfy. This gets a bit much for the Newfy sometimes and we have to tell Monty to stop, and he does. Even though the OES is smaller he is much rougher than the Newfy. One hour off leash is long enough walk for the day, or should I say....the Newfy and I walk and the OES is dashing around madly so good training and a strong recall is important for the OES. The OES has made walk time more fun, as he keeps the Newfy moving, otherwise walk time is unbearable with just the Newfy. If I plan to do a long walk with just the Newfy it takes twice as long than with the OES as the Newfy stops and sniffs everything. The OES will herd the Newfy to me and keeps the walk at a moveable pace. We have never had an issue of Monty being too active in the house, mostly he just naps sometimes wants to play tug which is cute and not overbearing and he is always ready for a cuddle. All you have to say is 'Monty' and he comes running. I call Buster and he stays where he is and Monty comes running instead  A great activity which a lot of members do with their OES is the agility. Monty really, really loves it. What could be more fun than running through tunnels, jumping through tires and running up ramps right and it is fun for the owner too.Only cons is the grooming of course but I don't mind sitting for an hour at a time brushing to keep him in full coat. Other con is that he doesn't play with other dogs, he chases but does not do gentle play and does not let Buster play with other dogs. His herding instinct kicks in and he is in the middle of two dogs barking like crazy. He also body checks other dogs when he is chasing them. Most dog owners are okay with this but I wish he would be more gentle. I would defiantly get another OES, mostly because he is so loving, cuddly and fun. |
First off. Kudos to you for doing the research you need to do before bringing in a second dog. Love the breed you currently have.  Size wise, An Old English will fit in...Energy wise, not so sure. OES need A LOT of attention and exercise. They are extremely high maintenance with grooming, unlike your current breed. Something to consider as I spend over 200 bucks a month grooming. Mine are 110 pounds and 82 pounds and I can't groom them myself as they are just too big and take forever to dry.Your bernase mountain dog will be more laid back and not as energetic. Could be good for an OES but know the OES needs a lot of exercise. Mine are not big barkers.Training an OES is a must in my opinion. You say no border collies but an OES is similar. herding breed, active, etc. Maybe you can go visit and OES in person with your bernese and see what we are all talking about. where are you located? |
| I love reading the answers and agree with all. They do bark with great loud barks but they do not carry on....assuming they are properly brought up in a home with the family.......not condemned to being a back yard lawn ornament. Sheepdogs are people dogs--Velcro dogs--you will never visit the bathroom alone again. They are the true potato chip dog........once you've had one, you can't stop. |
| I would go meet some OES - I see it was already asked where are you located? We could probably help you meet some or at least point you in the right direction. There is a range of activity levels between breeders and even litters. A good breeder would be able to match you to the right puppy. My guys I have now are really laid back most of the time, but they do get good amounts of exercise and mental stimulation several times during the week. My daughter has a relative of them, and she loves nothing more than being a pampered princess and lounging around. Then are some OES who are wired pretty tight and hyper. So it pays to do your research. We have a wide variety of breeds at our house besides our sheepdogs, and they all do well together - from basset to lab; rat terrier to coonhound! As an obedience instructor who competes in nearly every dog sport known to man...I'm going to strongly encourage going to a good puppy class and then follow up with a good trainer for classes. And keep popping in to classes for the long run. Too many stop after the initial session, then wonder why their 3 yr old, or 7 yr old dog is not as trouble free as they used to be. Good luck! |
| Gosh! Thank you everyone for the incredibly detailed responses. They have been so, so helpful! I am only sorry I did not come back sooner and reply immediately (Dec work load and Christmas meant thoughts of puppy number 2 were pushed to the back of my mind for a bit!) AnInnocentEvil wrote: 2. Are they a 'busy' breed? I'm not sure what you mean by this but they are pushy. They like to get what they want. They do like to entertain and be entertained. They are velcro to the max, you will never have an unsupervised potty break or shower. They want to be with you 24/7. If we are talking grooming, unless shaved their coat can keep you busy. 8. What would you describe their energy levels as? (ie high, medium, or low?) Medium now but as a puppy, high, Lily was going non stop. By 'busy' I meant 'constantly on the go'. You know the way some dogs seem to be more or less inclined to settle? Although obviously training a dog to settle is part of it. Energy wise that does sound similar ish to the Bernese. Sam wrote: Here's a pic of my sweet Sam and I hanging out yesterday. And him playing with my husband. Wow! He's gorgeous! I have to say, I usually prefer the look of their full coat to them being shaved, but actually that 'puppy cut' as you call it is just adorable! He looks huge! Only 8 months you say? How much does he weigh? Baba wrote: Which is why probably the majority of people keep them in shorter coats, that still requires some effort and cost if you are having a groomer keep them trimmed regularly. I am sure that the grooming difficulties are one of the major reasons the breed's popularity has declined . (the other reason is for some mystifying reason, people are tending to prefer having small dogs. I'll quote Ron Swanson from Parks & Recreation: "Get yourself a proper dog. Any dog under 50lbs is basically a cat, and cats are pointless." )On the PLUS side about their coats, they do not shed, and tend to be hypo-allergenic (no dog is truly hypo-allergenic, just that an OES's coat makes it less likely for the allergens to spread). I would say they are high energy when outside and especially 'working' (whatever that work is, agility, herding, fetching, other dog sports) but medium to low energy indoors. Again, gorgeous dogs! And again, energy wise that is quite similar to the Bernese. The berner is said to be active outside, but quiet inside (which to me is the perfect combination). Finding a breed that compliments Maggie is important, and energy levels I think are key when looking for that, so the OES is looking good at the moment as a possible contender! sheepieshake wrote: I guess the question for you is, do you want a puppy or an older, possible rescue. That will make a difference in the answers to your questions. 4. What have you found the cons to be? [color=#BF0000]This breed is NOT for everyone. You must want a dog to be your shadow (we call them velcro dogs). They love to herd ANYTHING. Lastly, IF you do decide on an OES...please...please...PLEASE...contact a reputable breeder. Although you may think you are saving money with someone who 'just' breeds for the fun of it...A reputable breeder performs tests on the mom and dad to make sure there they will be breeding the healthiest pups...this is NOT to say, you won't get one with problems, but, with all the testing the chances are minimal... Thank you so much! All very, very helpful. I certainly would consider any older rescue, as much as I got/get satisfaction out of raising Maggie, I have never wanted a dog for the puppy, I wanted a dog, for the dog they'll grow into! And no worries re the responsible breeder, I feel VERY strongly about ethical breeding and am not prepared to support any breeder who is less than the very highest standards. I am happy with the velcro dog part, it's one of the (many) reasons that I wanted a dog to begin with. That loyalty and companionship. I work from home, minus a few hours one morning a week when Maggie currently goes to a dog sitter and once is old enough for longer walks, a dog walker will come over. The herding instinct is my main worry about whether I am suitable for the breed. Maggie has a 'friend' who is a briard (a french sheepdog), and after months of being as gentle as anything, she hit about 9 months and started herding everything in sight, including Maggie to Maggie's horror I love dog training, but I'm not sure how confident I would be about dealing with such strong instincts in a dog. MontyQs wrote: The OES has made walk time more fun, as he keeps the Newfy moving, otherwise walk time is unbearable with just the Newfy. If I plan to do a long walk with just the Newfy it takes twice as long than with the OES as the Newfy stops and sniffs everything. The OES will herd the Newfy to me and keeps the walk at a moveable pace. Only cons is the grooming of course but I don't mind sitting for an hour at a time brushing to keep him in full coat. Other con is that he doesn't play with other dogs, he chases but does not do gentle play and does not let Buster play with other dogs. His herding instinct kicks in and he is in the middle of two dogs barking like crazy. He also body checks other dogs when he is chasing them. Most dog owners are okay with this but I wish he would be more gentle. I would defiantly get another OES, mostly because he is so loving, cuddly and fun. Ahh thank you for the comparison, that is very useful as yes indeed Bernese and newfie do share quite a lot in common. Bernese on the whole are more active than the newfie though, and from the sounds of your walk, somewhere in between your newfie and oes! Maggie, even at only 10 months, will switch between charging about, and stopping and sniffing, although she's still young, so she may well end up more on the slow side like your newfie I don't think I'd mind the grooming, I find it relaxing. Again, the herding instinct is the only issue. Maggie loves other dogs, so I'm not sure she'd appreciate a little brother trying to stop her playing with them! Ashley wrote: First off. Kudos to you for doing the research you need to do before bringing in a second dog. Love the breed you currently have. Size wise, An Old English will fit in...Energy wise, not so sure. OES need A LOT of attention and exercise. They are extremely high maintenance with grooming, unlike your current breed. Something to consider as I spend over 200 bucks a month grooming. Mine are 110 pounds and 82 pounds and I can't groom them myself as they are just too big and take forever to dry.Your bernase mountain dog will be more laid back and not as energetic. Could be good for an OES but know the OES needs a lot of exercise. Mine are not big barkers.Training an OES is a must in my opinion. You say no border collies but an OES is similar. herding breed, active, etc. Maybe you can go visit and OES in person with your bernese and see what we are all talking about. where are you located? Thank you for the kudos The compatibility is certain my main concern. Bernese are often a lot more active than people assume they will be, although of course you do get the lazier ones Maggie comes from quite an active line, but saying that, she still very much knows how to settle in the house, and I'd want a dog that would do this also, partly for me as it suits my lifestyle, and partly for Maggie so that she's not being pestered the whole time to play. Although at the moment, she'd be the one doing the pestering. The bit about border collies, is the main thing I want to get clear. As I said in my first post, I ruled them out the first time around after reading that they were very high energy and needed hours of exercise a day to keep them happy. However, having then spoken to a few people who have them, they have said how gentle and calm they are. They are people who I would expect to know, as they have both had many OES, and yet, what they say does not exactly match what I have read! Hence what brings me here I do love border collies, but I wouldn't want to commit to a breed that needed quite so much physical and mental stimulation. I'm in the south east of England. I'm planning on going to crufts in march and visit discover dogs, so will be able to meet some more OES there and talk to people with them. SheepieBoss wrote: I love reading the answers and agree with all. They do bark with great loud barks but they do not carry on....assuming they are properly brought up in a home with the family.......not condemned to being a back yard lawn ornament. Sheepdogs are people dogs--Velcro dogs--you will never visit the bathroom alone again. They are the true potato chip dog........once you've had one, you can't stop. Thank you for your comments got sheep wrote: There is a range of activity levels between breeders and even litters. A good breeder would be able to match you to the right puppy. My guys I have now are really laid back most of the time, but they do get good amounts of exercise and mental stimulation several times during the week. My daughter has a relative of them, and she loves nothing more than being a pampered princess and lounging around. Then are some OES who are wired pretty tight and hyper. So it pays to do your research. We have a wide variety of breeds at our house besides our sheepdogs, and they all do well together - from basset to lab; rat terrier to coonhound! As an obedience instructor who competes in nearly every dog sport known to man...I'm going to strongly encourage going to a good puppy class and then follow up with a good trainer for classes. And keep popping in to classes for the long run. Too many stop after the initial session, then wonder why their 3 yr old, or 7 yr old dog is not as trouble free as they used to be. Good luck! I love training and intend to do competitive obedience with Maggie once she's a bit older, so that's no problem Bernese as well can differ greatly in energy levels depending on the line. Hmm well this has all given me a lot to think about! Think I just need to now meet as many examples of the breed as I can to try and get a first hand feel for them. We'll see! |
| Hi, just a word about Border Collies, my herding trainer is also a Border Collie breeder (and sheep farmer), and I love her dogs, I would love to have one of them, but Border Collies (at least in Canada, and I would expect it's similar in the US and UK) are different than most herding breeds because they tend to be bred for working ability first. The days of Old English Sheepdogs actually being used as daily working dogs is mostly gone My trainer breeds her dogs for working lives*, like for daily farm use. She will sell puppies to "pet" homes if she is familiar with the home and there is proof that the dog will have a very, very active agility or other dog sport regime. This is all to say that well-bred Border Collies tend to have a lot more energy and require a lot more exercise and mental stimulation than a well-bred sheepdog. I am not saying OES do not have lots of energy and can work hard, they definitely do! (see Chewie on this forum ) but that I do think it's fair to say that Border Collies, on average, tend to have more, it's a spectrum, all herding dogs are high on it, Border Collies are usually at the top. And if you're not meeting their activity and stimulation needs, they can go a bit batty (true of all dogs, but again it's all relative, you will tend to need more for Border Collies to keep them sane). *one thing I really love about her dogs, is yes, work ethic and ability (and health) are primary, but she also breeds them with very very sweet dispositions, if they're off duty, all you have to do is crouch down and open your arms and they come running for hugs. |
| Exactly, Borders will create great problems if they are not frequently exercised BIG TIME and their mind challenged. Contact any Border rescue and they will go on at length about their dogs originally ending up in the wrong home. They are high energy and need to be "drained" frequently. They are not couch potatoes. If left outside, they will destroy the yard, if they don't master escape. Indoors they will eat the walls, carpet, whatever to relieve their boredom. That said, if you have the time and energy to keep this dog busy, a more trusting and intelligent dog you will never meet........and fun! Plus they are beautiful. |
SheepieBoss wrote: Exactly, Borders will create great problems if they are not frequently exercised BIG TIME and their mind challenged. Contact any Border rescue and they will go on at length about their dogs originally ending up in the wrong home. They are high energy and need to be "drained" frequently. They are not couch potatoes. If left outside, they will destroy the yard, if they don't master escape. Indoors they will eat the walls, carpet, whatever to relieve their boredom. That said, if you have the time and energy to keep this dog busy, a more trusting and intelligent dog you will never meet........and fun! Plus they are beautiful. Yeah, which is why getting one of my trainer's Border Collies remains just a pipe dream, until we win the big lottery and can quit our jobs and build a place in the country with a big steel building which houses a full year-round agility course. If we got one of those Border Collies now, we'd end up totally neglecting our other girls to meet the BC's needs. And anyway, sheepies (and 3 in particular) are still my favourite dogs of course! |
SheepieBoss wrote: Exactly, Borders will create great problems if they are not frequently exercised BIG TIME and their mind challenged. Contact any Border rescue and they will go on at length about their dogs originally ending up in the wrong home. They are high energy and need to be "drained" frequently. They are not couch potatoes. If left outside, they will destroy the yard, if they don't master escape. Indoors they will eat the walls, carpet, whatever to relieve their boredom. That said, if you have the time and energy to keep this dog busy, a more trusting and intelligent dog you will never meet........and fun! Plus they are beautiful. Absolutely. I can't imagine I'll ever be right for a border collie (apart from maybe an elderly rescue). Also, as much as I love them from afar, visually I am more of a stocky dog person If an OES had the same level of energy as a border, then without doubt they would be ruled out! I just can't commit to quite that much. Bernese are very bright and active dogs though, despite their laid back image, so we do a lot of training and playing involving mental activity, so I'm happy and willing to put in a lot of time to stimulate a dog... just not a dog needed as much stimulation as a border collie! |
| 1. How much exercise do you find they need to be calm in the house? --yes, exercise is good for them and keeps them from being destructive. Daily walks and my OES went to work with me, so he got to play in our large office. Mine loved fetching things and running through the yard.2. Are they a 'busy' breed? -They constantly want to be with you... so yes, I would say 'busy'. They are very social dogs and like to be with the 'pack'. 3. Do they bark a lot? (Berner's are not suppose to be a very barky breed, but Maggie didn't get the memo) - Mine did not bark too much but he would bark when he saw something (like a squirrel, another dog, etc) and when someone came to our door. 4. What have you found the cons to be? - For most people, it would probably be the grooming requirements. As they age, they also can have some arthritis issues, like most large breeds. As they age, depending on their size, lifting may be necessary in certain situations, which may not always be easy. 5. Do you clip them? (I have always understood them to be a double coated breed, and that you should not clip such a coat, but nevertheless I see a lot clipped, so wondered if this was the norm?). - We always clipped our boy in the summer to keep him cooler and he loved it. 6. Do they have any 'quirks'? - The herding instinct is quite common in these dogs. My dog would always alert (bark) to tell us when someone was leaving the house. He also naturally 'herded' children around, which is fine until they accidentally knock a small child down, so you have to watch them. Ours would occasionally 'nip' when we would play (run away from him), so I'd watch that around small children. 7. Have you experience many problems related to their herding instinct? - See above answers. 8. What would you describe their energy levels as? (ie high, medium, or low?) - Young - high energy as they age, their energy gets lower, IMO. Good luck! I had my Sheepie 14 1/2 years... miss him every day! Looking for a new one, soon! |
| Monty compared to the border collies at agility is less active. In the house Monty is pretty inactive, sleeps most of the time but a bit more active than the Newfy. The next time we get an OES We will try to stop the herding/fetching the Newfy from very young, we didn't because we thought it was cute and useful but we created a bit of a Monster.....nick name for Monty. It is nothing out of hand, a few times in an hour walk but if we had stopped it at the beginning maybe he wouldn't do it now. Monty has a cousin near us, she doesn't herd, she lives with a Saint Bernard. They are get on well. Their owners play fetch with the two dogs so this could be a good distraction for the herding instinct. |
| How much exercise in terms of hours do they need on average would you say? I think it's beginning to sound as though my instincts the first time around were right, and that an OES might be too high energy for my lifestyle. Such a shame as a lovely breed, maybe one day! |
| We usually only do an hour off leash walk a day. sometimes it is 40 minutes and sometimes an hour and a half and on a very cold day 20 mins. We have even skipped a day when the weather has been hideous. I always do an off leash walk rather than on leash and Monty is better with that as he can run circles and burn off the energy. You could do an on leash walk but I think you will need to walk for twice as long to adequately exercise him, it also does not tire the brain out as much as off leash. You will find that the OES will not generally be walking next to you, it's preference will be to running around exploring but checking to see where you are constantly, and will come back to check in......well this is the way Monty is. I had the same fears as you, I was really worried that the OES would be pestering me in the house to be entertained, but it isn't like that, he is happy to sit and look out the window, or to suck on his soft toy, or just lie there and watch what is going on and nap a lot. I also think that it helps having a laid back Newfy, the OES puppy learns from the Newfy. I was also worried that he would be one of those annoying dogs that bounce all over you for attention, but he isn't like that. We are quite calm, even tempered people and I think that dogs pick up on your personality. Also Monty's parents were calm and friendly. It would be good to meet the breeders and their dogs to see how they behave, if they have calm, polite and friendly dogs this would be a good sign that a puppy from them would have a similar personality. It comes down to whether you think the personality of an OES will suit you and if you have time to give him the off leash walk to burn off energy so that he is a calm contented dog in the home. It has worked out well for us |
MontyQs wrote: We usually only do an hour off leash walk a day. sometimes it is 40 minutes and sometimes an hour and a half and on a very cold day 20 mins. We have even skipped a day when the weather has been hideous. I always do an off leash walk rather than on leash and Monty is better with that as he can run circles and burn off the energy. You could do an on leash walk but I think you will need to walk for twice as long to adequately exercise him, it also does not tire the brain out as much as off leash. You will find that the OES will not generally be walking next to you, it's preference will be to running around exploring but checking to see where you are constantly, and will come back to check in......well this is the way Monty is. I had the same fears as you, I was really worried that the OES would be pestering me in the house to be entertained, but it isn't like that, he is happy to sit and look out the window, or to suck on his soft toy, or just lie there and watch what is going on and nap a lot. I also think that it helps having a laid back Newfy, the OES puppy learns from the Newfy. I was also worried that he would be one of those annoying dogs that bounce all over you for attention, but he isn't like that. We are quite calm, even tempered people and I think that dogs pick up on your personality. Also Monty's parents were calm and friendly. It would be good to meet the breeders and their dogs to see how they behave, if they have calm, polite and friendly dogs this would be a good sign that a puppy from them would have a similar personality. It comes down to whether you think the personality of an OES will suit you and if you have time to give him the off leash walk to burn off energy so that he is a calm contented dog in the home. It has worked out well for us Well, after talking to some breeders, the OES is a contender again! They said the same as you MontyQ, that they give their dogs about 40 minutes - an hour off lead, and then they are pretty quiet in the house. This is what my Bernese Mountain Dog gets, so in fact they might fit in after all. I am going to go to Crufts in March (I'm in the UK), and meet more of the breed. Also, a very kind breeder has invited me to visit her and her adult dogs to see what the breed is like in a home setting (as the only ones I have met in person were at training class or shows). So we shall see! I am going to read through the whole of this thread again, and have a serious think! |
| Fozzie was really energetic as a puppy and got two longer walks a day and off leash on the weekends. We have a backyard and had another sheepdog that kept him busy and got his additional running energy out. Now at age 8, Foz typically gets 1 long walk in the morning and then he's just fine. He has frisky running spurts in the yard and we rough house a little in the front of the house. It's fine for him at this age. Our other OES came to live with us at age 6. She was just fine with 1 long walk and a few shorter ones when we lived in the condo. When we moved to the house, she ran a bit in the yard but spent more time sitting barking at cars an the wind I grew up with 2 OES who had different energy levels. One had major arthritis his whole life so he didn't exercise much. Then Muffin was pretty much like Foz energy level wise. I really feel that OES adapt to your lifestyle. They are happy to be with you! |
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