The sheepie, kids and collie--what a walk!
Saturday, I took both Amy the sheepie, Opal the collie, and Becky the 9-year-old girl for a walk. Becky walked Opal until we were charged by a loose dog, and then she handed Opal over to me. Amy wasn't as bad as I was told to expect, but she acted like she'd never heard of the idea of heel, or walking in a straight line for that matter. She pulled terribly, and when I would stop at the crossings she'd try jumping, instead of the command for "sit". It took her a good half mile to settle in for the walk, but then she did fine. Sunday though, I took both dogs for a walk and it was lovely. Amy pulled and acted up for about 1/4 mile and then showed me that she could heel like a pro, sit at crossings when commanded, sit and wait on command when meeting people. There was no jumping, and after that first bit she was a fantastic dog that did not have issues... Both dogs behaved like they were well-trained, beautiful, princess dogs. We came home and ran through some obedience and Amy continued to show me she knew basic commands. Today, I took Amy, Opal, and all three kids for a walk. Amy acted like she'd never encountered a leash before. She pulled, jumped, spun around in circles, tried to bolt in a different directions, and was a ball of hyper. If I hadn't walked both of them successfully on Sunday, I would completely believe everything I was told about her lack of training and manners. Do you think she was just testing my limits today? Or do you think its because the kids walked with us that she acted up? By the time we hit the last stretch of road I was ready to be done with that walk. The 10-year-old girl was walking ahead of the group instead of with us, the 6-year-old boy was just being a spaz, the sheepdog was spinning, jumping and pulling-- Opal and Becky were the only ones behaving. What do I need to do to avoid walks like today's in the future? I know Amy can be a fantastic dog on leash. I really don't think Sunday was a fluke. Bethany |
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| I think you answered your own question with the children. Amy is an oes which is a herding breed. I'm sure having all the children with you and the one that walked ahead just frazzled her. You probably need to walk with only the dogs for a while. That way you can concentrate on training Amy and she nor you will be distracted with the kids. Good luck! |
| First, we need pictures! It sounds like she has lots of energy! Some sheepies have much more than others. (I know, I have one of those sheepies) Does she like fetch? Some sheepies do, some don't. It's ok if she doesn't. I was suggesting it because you could play fetch with her til she has slowed down a bit, then take her for a walk. (I like to run my sheepie before training classes, I have successfully tricked everyone into thinking she is a well behaved dog  )It also sounds like she lacks self control. Training and consistency in time will help this. It is hard for a sheepie to maintain focus on being good, when someone else is being silly too. Have you looked into training classes? It really helped me with my sheepie. |
| How do I post pictures? Do I need to go through a service like dropshots? She doesn't fetch, she zooms around the yard and then bowls over the collie when the collie dutifully brings back the ball or frisbee. Should I break out the dynamic even more and walk Amy separately from Opal until she's 100% well behaved on leash? I like the idea of one-on-one, but I do admit to being lazy, and its getting cold, and I'm whiny... If its better for the dogs though, I'll walk them separately until I have consistent behavior. If I don't need to do that, since Amy and Opal did ok together, I'll walk them together. Training classes conflicted with my class schedule this semester. I plan on enrolling Amy and myself, and Opal and one of the girls, next term. Before we found Amy, I originally wanted to enroll Opal in a class. Unfortunately, I couldn't find anything that worked with my schedule. So its a priority for next term instead. |
| For pictures http://forum.oes.org/viewtopic.php?f=20&t=1119 |
| No, pictures are pretty easy but copy down the instructions on the forum and walk yourself thru them.....several times if you are a slow learned like me. No extra program needed. Yeah to above two. Sheepie wanted to herd or play with the kids and still needs training on developing self control. Your walk was a great idea and should be continued, but just you and the dogs first then one child at a time until that goes well then add another. In obedience it would help if the oldest child would also participate, learning how to handle the new dog. In time even the youngest child can become a dog/master. |
| You added a new factor... the children. That alone is reason to expect that you might have some back sliding. Learning is not always a linear process, meaning that is doesn't always move along in the right direction in a constantly upward motion. It takes dips and then swings back up to where it was before. There is not always a smooth path towards a goal. When I learned to ice skate I didn't get slightly better each time out. I had a mixture of good days and bad days and I could never predict which one would be next. But eventually I got the hang of it and one day it all became much, much easier to skate. Be patient. Amy has shown you she has the capacity to be a quick learner and that she wants to please you. Give her time. Be consistent. You are definitely on the right path to success. Linda Zimmerman |
Opal and Amy Amy and the boy  |
| And thank you for the advice. The furry girls and I will take our morning walk without the kids for a while. |
| Amy has a tail! |
| All good advice, so all I can add is - she looks great! Good luck with walkies!  |
| That tail looks dangerous!! Knowing how the tailless bums wiggle, I suspect a sheepie tail is on par with a crazy Labrador's tail. Amy has a child........3. Sheepies love a family. Hang in there with her, she's going to be a great dog. Opal, you've got a friend. |
I can relate to this. Oscar is TERRIBLE when walked with other people. It send his motion reactivity (herding instinct?) into overdrive. It's like "So much movement, so little time!".  He literally cannot contain himself, and turns into a whirling dervish. I call him Taz.  I have done extensive obedience training with Oscar (he is deaf, since birth), and working with him one-on-one, calmly and consistently, is the only way I was able to achieve results. That and LOTS OF TREATS!!!!!  Oscar is highly food motivated, so I used that to my advantage in training. I would recommend, as others have, walking solo so that your pup gets all of your attention. It's the best way to communicate what behaviors are appropriate, as well as nip things in the bud before they start. (Oscar's body language tells me BEFORE he gets nutso. If I am paying attention, I can divert it before it becomes a full blown Taz moment.) I also found that being CALM is key. The more frustrated and irritated I got, the worse Oscar's behavior became. (He can read me as well as I can read him. ) No matter how much I wanted to strangle him, I took a deep breath and kept calm when giving commands. It made a huge difference. When I used to get frustrated, and let it show, I think Oscar felt that I was unstable, and not to be completely trusted. He didn't know what to expect, just that all of a sudden, I was very upset, which in turn, made him more upset. It turned into a vicious cycle. Now that I keep calm, and let him know what I want, he is much better. Laurie and Oscar |
| This morning was no kids just both dogs and me. It was a lot better, although it took her a bit to settle into the walk, we did the same route, just in reverse. So I'll walk the two for a while, and when she has the hang of my expectations, I'll throw in the 9-year-old to walk Opal. I think I'll slowly add people until we can walk the whole family together. I'm finding that Amy isn't as food oriented as Opal is. She likes a little treat, but where I can use them to work with Opal, Amy's hit or miss. That tail is something else. I wouldn't recommend keeping glass or delicate decorations anywhere near a sheepdog with a tail. |
| Congratulations on the new addition to your family! Amy is lovely. Remember, no matter how well trained your dog is, that a change in situation especially an exciting one can send all training out the window. I should know, I have Harry who competes in obedience, rally and agility, and he still won't always sit or heel for me when we are out on an adventure. Who am I kidding? He doesn't always do what I ask in competition either.  Did I mention that he is 8 years old and we have been in some sort of class non-stop since he was seven months old? But his joy and enthusiasm for everything makes him a fun guy, if a bit trying. As someone else mentioned, consistency is key for good behavior. Amy has shown you she IS capable. I have a feeling that as time goes on you will find the unpredictability of an OES a little endearing.  Good luck! |
| What is more important to realise is that Sheepies are big dogs - they take more effort to control when being excitable than a smaller dog, they are very strong animals - so it is important to work on the control. They are very playful - any time of day is play time, now who can I play with????? They are also very intelligent dogs - don't be fooled by that big daft face. You are testing her out, she is doing exactly the same with you! Are you good enough for her? let's hope so. |
| You are right, sheepies are definitely big, strong dogs. Walking both dogs at the same time is akin to walking a feather and a truck. She's does well enough on our walks, but if she wants to pull, I definitely have to work to keep her in heel. Amy's awfully intelligent. I think that she must have been reasonably trained at some point in her life, because she knows commands--that or she picks them up very quickly. I think that the person who surrendered her (apparently the original owner's daughter) and the foster mom both were taken in by the false stereotypes that plague sheepdogs and that doofus-like persona. I was told that Amy was kind of dumb, easily distracted and that she wasn't trained at all. As we get to know Amy, I'm beginning to think the foster did not like her that well. She's been here less than a week and has already proven that she's very smart, can be very focused and that she's been trained. Plus she's so sweet and loving, its like having a living teddy bear. Maybe she's a werewolf... Right now she's a normal dog, but when the moon is full she turns into something horrible. |
| Ahhhh. The "dumb, clownish" sheepdog myth rears its ugly head. My BIL had a sheepdog for two years, and loved him to pieces, but kept insisting that it was the dumbest dog he'd ever had. Then it dawned on him. The dog had him very well trained! Don't let the panting smile and fluffy face fool you. I've had dogs my whole life, and the two OES I've had have been the most astute, by leaps and bounds. They quickly pick up on what you want, and then decide if the reward you are offering for that behavior is worth it. I look at it this way. I am the instrument that Oscar utilizes to get the maximum amount of food possible. To that end, he has figured out that doing what I want gets him the maximum amount of food. It's a win-win! (Note to self: always carry kibble.) Laurie and Oscar |
| YAY! Today, I let the kids come with us, and it was great! In fact, DD1 walked Opal, DD2 walked Amy and I held hands with DS. DD1 and DS started out being squirrelly, which got the dogs wound up, and I had to stop the procession a couple of times to get everyone on the same page. I usually let DD2 handle Opal. I stopped us the first time and got after DD1 and DS about racing ahead and not paying attention. It was no good. In less than a half block I had to stop them again. Then it dawned on me (cue the angel choir), I gave everyone a job or position and we had a great walk. DD2 took control of Amy, with me at the end of the 6 ft. leash for good measure. DD1 took control of Opal. DS and I held hands between the two pairs. We took a less challenging route with fewer things to distract my dogs, and had a nice walk. I won't let any of the kids walk Amy completely alone--she outweighs all of them, but this worked out really well. I really enjoy the walks where its just the dogs and me, and I'll definitely continue that, but I have a lot of hope that I've found a way to enjoy walking with my kids and dogs together. |
Glad to hear it's going so well!! Keep it up, you are doing great. Aren't sheepies wonderful.  I'm lucky no one has ever brought up that myth about lily but she has been called a froo-froo dog many times by my family members. Which is my fault. She gets her nails painted, bows in her hair, blow dried and girly jackets. She's not really a froo-froo dog. Shes a rough and tumble tom boy, I just keep her out of the mud. When I fostered her brother Jack, the owners told me they couldn't potty train him, he was out of control and not a very smart dog. I expected a mess, I got a mess but not the type I was thinking. Just his nasty coat because come to find out all they did was tie him up outside or stick him in the crate. He was 100% potty trained and asking to go out in a day. He learned leash manners rather fast and ended up being better behaved in the house than Lily by the time he went to his new home. (Not sure how that worked out, lol) |
Amy isn't going to have much choice but to be froo-froo. This is DD2 and Amy. I think she looks quite fetching in a cupcake bow. |
| Look at her sweet face! She looks so cute in her bow. |
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