OES puppy in my future
 ), nudged gently and followed around by two gorgeous OES!! Live and in person!! Today I was generously welcomed into an OES rescue volunteer's home to meet her own two rescues. I had to hold back the tears because at first it was like being with my beardie again - only a lot more of her, with no tail. So, it's confirmed: I know I can commit 100% to loving, caring for, training and being a Rally buddy to an OES - oh yeah, and the grooming - just like my beardie only more of it. I actually miss that part too.So, next is conversing with then choosing a reputable breeder!! Wish me luck and pm me with any information about California breeders (I'm in the central valley toward Northern California but Southern Cal breeders would only be a six hour drive away). Thanks!!    |
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| Seeing a Sheepie up close and personal like that must have been a thrill for you! You must have been on cloud nine when you left. At this point, I'd suggest you talk to the rescue person you just met and get her take on area breeders. I'll bet she knows some and may have even worked with some. Then take any/all insight from the rescue person and continue your own research. Be a sponge and absorb as much info as you can. However, be on the lookout for any negativity as some people will only say bad things. All I'm saying is be prepared to be able to weigh out some of what you here and discount comments based on things such as revenge and conceit. Keep us posted on the hunt and don't be afraid to ask the members here. Good luck and post photos when able; we're all suckers for photos! Vance |
| Though she's in southern Cal, I'd contact Christine. Breeder Referral Contact, Christine Bunsick 4625 Box 15, Tehachapi, CA 93561 With more web research I bet you can find an email for her. |
| Thanks Vance! It was a thrill and I am still on Cloud 9. I didn't want to put this volunteer in an uncomfortable position because she is a friend of a reputable breeder and her focus is on rescue. I could tell she didn't want to expand her response to my asking her about breeders. It's the negativity I am not looking forward to. Is it true that some breeders require you to "show AND breed?" It will be awhile before I will have anyone to post pictures of but all you "suckers" will be sick of my posting pics once he/she is here  Just remember then that I have been a "sucker" for all the OES puppy and adult photos all of you have posted, so have patience please (Thanks Susan, I'll look into Christine if I hear nothing more back from the two breeders I have sent initial contact to). Thanks for all the support!! |
sann4dogs wrote: Is it true that some breeders require you to "show AND breed?" No. Where do people get these ideas? Just don't fall in love with the pick puppy bitch (dog?) and you'll be fine. Spoken from experience and no regrets. But I'd also been around enough to know what I was getting into  As for Chris' e-mail address, try oes@sti.net. Not sure if it's current, but very sure Chris is a very positive person. You'll like her - willing to bet on it. Kristine |
| As Kristine eluded to, every breeder I've spoken to will want to know if you have show intent or just want a companion dog. It matters to them as they'll send the best possible show candidates to those who want to show. Our breeder had two out of the five pups going to show home. At least until we changed our minds and decided to show. Luckily for us, all her litter were show worthy so we hit a jackpot. One thing to keep in mind when talking to breeders is to be totally honest with them. You should end up with the dog of your dreams if you're honest and they do their job. And that's where going to a breeder with a strong rep pays off in spades. Vance |
Vance wrote: As Kristine eluded to, every breeder I've spoken to will want to know if you have show intent or just want a companion dog. It matters to them as they'll send the best possible show candidates to those who want to show. Our breeder had two out of the five pups going to show home. At least until we changed our minds and decided to show. Luckily for us, all her litter were show worthy so we hit a jackpot. One thing to keep in mind when talking to breeders is to be totally honest with them. You should end up with the dog of your dreams if you're honest and they do their job. And that's where going to a breeder with a strong rep pays off in spades. Vance Thanks Vance. I wouldn't be anything but honest. I don't want to end up in a contract I can't live up to or with a pup that deserves more than I can provide or isn't happy living our farm life with us - including one that doesn't like showing that I've agreed to show. I also understand the importance to the breeder to have their line being shown and their legacy continuing in future litters. I have started this search now because I want to take my time to learn, understand and choose correctly - even if I have to wait a year or two (not two, no not two). So, the issue I am struggling with right now is the "ideal" and possible requirement of showing in conformation versus the reality of our lifestyle knowing full well I have no desire to be responsible for raising a litter....but a stud dog?, not sure, but don't think so.  So I'm thinking maybe AKC registered but pet quality so I can do performance, but not conformation. With the beardies it was simpler in 1998 it seems: pet or show quality - every litter had some of each designated that way. So far I'm "hearing" many OES litters are "all" show quality and should be shown in conformation.We live on a small farm so I cringe at keeping a "show dog" coat while asking my dog to "help" me while I scoop out the chicken coop and llama poop for the compost pile only to have him/her rolling in it. Therefore, right now, I think I want healthy with a sound, stable temperament foremost with a tendency toward laid back versus bouncing off the walls. I know Rally is an interest, maybe herding and Canine Good Citizen a given...other than that, not sure what else I should include. How detailed should we get? What if the litter is all "show quality" so my request for a registered "pet quality" puts me off the list for a pup? I want to be fair to the breeder, the pup and to me. So far, there is a breeder who will require that her pups are shown and later if health testing clears and she needs the genes, she will want one breeding. So, I think I cross myself off that type of list and move to the next one, what do you think? Sorry if this doesn't make much sense - all the possibilities versus the realities are clanging around in my ol' brain from Cloud 9.  thanks for listening and sharing.. |
sann4dogs wrote: What if the litter is all "show quality" so my request for a registered "pet quality" puts me off the list for a pup? I want to be fair to the breeder, the pup and to me. Methinks you're overthinking this.  You don't want to show, so just be clear on that and wait till you find a breeder who has a puppy he or she doesn't mind letting go to a pet home. Part of the issue is that it's hard to evaluate a litter at a young age and know for sure what you're looking at, so you try to hedge your bets, which is hard in this day and age where people generally can't spay/neuter their dogs fast enough (which is a bad idea for health reasons, but that's a different discussion). You generally have a pretty good idea what you're looking at, but some times things change. There were eight puppies in my first litter, four of them finished their championship, two more of the bitches could have (and it wasn't a particularly outstanding litter), but so what? Only one of the eight got bred anyway. With a smaller litter, things are more critical. I had three in my last litter, kept both bitches in case they both turn out the way I think they will, and gave the lone male, a very nice dog, to a good friend whom I knew would show him and keep all his body parts intact. Come to think of it, she lives on a farm - raises sheep - and finished his uncle just fine, while doing lots of performance stuff. So it can be done. But you have to want to. And if you don't, there is absolutely nothing wrong with that. If a breeder has a contract you don't feel comfortable with, politely walk away. Everyone is a little different, there is no hard and fast rule on how breeders handle these things, so just keep looking until you find someone you can work with. Generally speaking there should be few strings in a pet contract beyond if you can't keep the dog s/he goes back to the breeder and in case of health problems here is how things will be handled. Show prospects are a completely different matter and you should never go there without fully understanding the implications. Kristine |
| The above advice is all very good. Keep it all in mind. A few things to add here. Good breeders who are in this for the welfare & betterment of the breed will not be breeding to produce a litter of pet quality puppies. We have enough of those BYB breeders out there already doing that. Just ask any breeder as most of us also help in rescue to some extent. What you are going to hear is "They breed for show" which means they are breeding to improve on their lines & hopefully produce puppies that are closer to the standard than even the parents were. When you hear that "the entire litter is show quality" that generally isn't really true. What that means is that most or all of the puppies are finishable, they could go into the ring & finish their championship easily. Perhaps a couple others would take a bit longer because they might not be quite as outstanding as their other littermates. And sometimes genes end up being a crap shoot & we say to ourseleves "where in the heck did these come from?". In another words, what looks good on paper......... What you need to be looking for is a reputable breeder who shows their dogs. Let them know you live on a farm & that most likely you'd be more comfortable doing performance work with a dog. What you will end up with is a dog that most likely could have very well walked into the show ring & finished it's AKC championship but probably wasn't the top pick of the breeder. It is still going to be a very good dog & you probably will never be able to discern the minute difference between it & another one that went to a show home. The bottom line is there are never enough show homes for reputable breeders so many of those puppies end up being placed as companions. We just don't have enough room or time to spend with them to keep them all. Also, don't settle for less. Just because you are not interested in showing a dog doesn't mean you should settle for an unsound dog. You need a good quality dog whether you are doing conformation, performance or "none of the above". A reputable breeder will most likely have you sign a contract whether you buy a show prospect or a companion. It's their way of safeguarding their puppies, making sure the new owners live up to what they said they would do for a dog. If you do decide to go the show route, discuss it long & hard with the breeder. Make sure you buy from someone who is within a reasonable distance to help you learn how to groom & trim properly, be at shows with you to help you & to let you know which judges are ones that they feel judge dogs. Otherwise you are going to get discouraged very early & that contract you signed with the breeder is going to be big roadblock for both of you. You can ask Vance......he bought his dog from a breeder friend of mine . I sent him there because the breeding of ours he was waiting on didn't take. I knew the pedigree on this other breeding & felt it was good. When he decided he wanted to show the dog & spoke to me about mentoring him I tried to talk him out of it more than in to it. Chris Pesche will know most of the breeders in the California area. She was the head of the OESCA rescue committee in the past also. Also check out the breeder referral page link: http://www.oldenglishsheepdogclubofamerica.org. You may not find someone really close to you but it is a good place to start. The people on this list not only have to follow the national club's code of ethics when breeding but have to meet a few other qualifications to be on this list. And there are other reputable breeders out there that chose not to be on this list mainly because when it comes to placing their puppies they already have waiting lists. So you need to keep a few things in mind. You want a good qaulity dog from someone that is in this to better the breed. They can't be bettering the breed if their dogs/breeding stock are not out in the show ring being judged. You also want to feel very compfortable with your breeder. Be prepared to answer a lot of questions. And make sure you ask a lot of questions & request to see verifications, especially about the health testing they do on their breeding stock. |
| Thank you Kristine and Marilyn!! I'm sure I'm overthinking this. Better now than later I suppose. The fact is I don't want to breed but I don't know enough about conformation to answer the show question yet. How does one keep a show dog while living on a farm looking good in the show ring? Are there enough shows and entries to reasonably finish a a dog in CA and not get stuck by that part of the contract? I have been to many dog shows over the years (in my late 50's) and always been intrigued with conformation. I have been through this forum and read many articles about this breed and how to find the right breeder but I'm not seeing alot of the practical side of "show" life. Our county requires spay/neuter by 4 months or you pay a higher licensing fee. Since that isn't a healthy policy for an OES and I'll end up with an intact dog or bitch until they are old enough for spay or neuter, why not seriously consider showing but not breeding? It may be right for me, it may not - I need those answers. I will inform any breeder of our lifestyle and my known requirements as well as my interests and hesitations. I hope to find the right breeder for me and that I am right for their pup. And I am more than willing to wait for that to happen. Sorry if I've worn you all out with my questions and thinking out loud. I am so grateful for this forum and all of you.  |
| I can answer the part about keeping a dog on a farm and showing him too. The answer is - you work at it! We have sheep, llama, had horses and now just have a pony; chickens, peafowl. We also have 2 yard ponds and live on a small farm on a gravel road - no pavement at all! Chewie is 6 yrs, and he's one of those that Kristine mentioned from her litter of 8. He was originally under a non-show contract...as I was going to do lots of performance stuff with him and while show quality, he was going to be the best puppy for my needs. But, when we came back to visit at 6 months, the co-breeder begged me to please show him...and I caved and said yes. Later, when I would be-moan doing all we do and still keeping coat, Kristine would laugh and remind me it was my fault, as I didn't have a must-show contract and did it out of my own free will! And we really have done it all! He is a show CH, and is also titled in obedience, rally (was the #1 OES in the country when we were actively competing), herding, agility (in masters level now), lure coursing, has been a therapy dog since age 1, is a weight pull CH in 2 organizations, with a personal best pull on wheels of 2324#, also does competitive back packing for working dog titles with the Samoyed and Malamute clubs. And many times we would do 2 or more of these events in the same day and same weekend. This gets kind of long, but here are photos showing us in most of our activities! We do have lots and lots of fun. We try sports and activities, and we pursue those we both enjoy, even when they aren't considered "normal" things for an OES to do.  We discovered early on that he LOVES water and the ponds!   As a puppy checking out a bottle baby lamb -  Sheep herding for his 1st leg of his HCT at 13 months -  Showing and winning at 16 months old - with daughter LeAnne -  and still loving the pond!   but all back to sparkly clean the next day to be in a parade!  Winning his 1st rally title!  Almost to the finish line in a sled dog race - in the 2-dog, 2 mile class:  competing in rally-  And doing 3 events in one day! Obedience-  ....weight pull (running from breed ring to weight pull - that's why I'm all dressed up!) -  ....And winning in the show ring!  Backpacking -  Being a pillow for the grandkids   Passing the Disaster Stress Relief Dog testing through TDI - the 1st and only OES in the nation to do this   Lure coursing - 1st OES to be awarded the CA (Coursing Ability) title    And with granddaughter Bre winning Best Junior Handler this fall at Nationals!  And competing in agility   This is all just ONE dog  , one really awesome OES who will turn himself inside to work with me...and who right now is laying at my feet.  Now I also have his nephew Bond - and he's off to a great start. He's 15 months old and is showing and winning points, won Best Puppy (in conformation) at Nationals this fall, already is a therapy dog and has his first legs in herding for his HCT and lure coursing. He's also training in obedience and rally, and doing the very beginning stages of agility training. Working full time, lack of time is our main reason we don't do more.... Bond running for his 1st lure coursing CA leg -  ...and visiting as a therapy dog when he was 1 yr old -  But best of all - they are sweet love bugs who are a joy to live with! |
Dawn: You are amazing! Thank you for sharing!! Geesh, and I've been wondering if I can do one dog in one or two events.  gasp, gulp. wow. |
Sometimes we have to push Dawn to open up about her dogs as she's really bashful...  Seriously, Dawn is a one stop shoppe with regards to what our breed can do. I honestly doubt there is any other dog of any breed that has equalled Chewie's accomplishments. Anywhere! If you ever get to a point where you wonder if a Sheepie can do something new, ask Dawn. Chewie's probably done it and has the award to prove it. Vance |
| We need to turn Chewie into a Youtube video so that we can show the world that the breed is more than just pretty and fuzzy! Such a versatile breed if a person wants to put in time and effort. Chewie is the poster boy for the breed and has an absolutely lovely temperament to boot. As for Dawn, she is a nice as Chewie and is a great source of knowledge and inspiration. My theory is that they put something in the well water down there! |
I give up = I'm just gonna move closer to all of you!!  |
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