Woodshadow Kennels
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That's terrible, I'm sorry your family went through this.  Quote: Think about getting a dog only in person, even if it means you don't get your favorite breed. However, I don't necessarily agree with this, most great breeders ship puppies, North America being a very big place with good reputable OES breeders (and other uncommon breeds) being few and far between. So if your family's heart is set on a sheepdog (no surprise, we'd all understand  ), I wouldn't exclude breeders (or the breed!) based on this. I certainly understand once bit, twice shy... I'd still hate to see people's dreams destroyed because of terrible breeders. I know there are knowledgeable people here who would help you with how and what to look for in a "distance" breeder. |
| Oh I am so sorry. What a nightmare! It is very very important to really know a lot about the breeder and their reputation. There is a great section on how to look for a pup etc... This is a wonderful forum full of people with lots of knowledge and experience. I have learned tins here! |
| Buying puppies online: Baba, I know what you are saying. Our last dog was ordered online and he was amazing. But it's a huge committment of time and finances to have a purebred dog. and if you can't see the kennel it's really difficult to know how much to trust someone. I should have asked other breeders, even though it didn't "feel right". |
| Sad to hear what went on, dont take the breed in general as the norm from where you got her from and what happened, read what is posted in stickys here in this section when thinking about choosing a puppper, questions to ask as well as documented proof in writing provided via email or what-ever. Some claim to show dogs etc but following the instructions here can save a huge heart break down the track!!!. I cant imagine what you have been through, hell and back, and even though at the time not wanting to question other breeders at the time to peruse/check out who you were thinking of at the time getting a pup from is not detrimental to other breeders. The Norm as far as checks are concerned. So sorry you experienced that with the breed, dont be turned off by OES because of that   |
| I suppose it depends on where you're located but I was told of an OES puppy buyer who took a breeder to small claims court in their own state. Their new, too young puppy had died within days of picking him up. It would have been a burden for the breeder to appear in court so she was allowed to testify via telephone. Not sure whether this is possible but I wouldn't cash that check nor would I consider this finished. Oh, and by the way, the breeder lost the case and eventually stopped breeding. I'm so sorry for your suffering and the suffering of this pup. Some breeders are just junk. |
| ** This may not be important at this point, but... Just goes to show that just because someone has been breeding for 30 years (or however long) doesn't mean squat. Experience is great, but doesn't make you someone who should breed. (Not saying anything about this particular breeder - I don't know a thing about them.) Shellie |
| Thank you for including the "kennel (can you call it a kennel?) name" of this seemingly unethical and unscrupulous breeder (can you call the person a breeder?). Very sorry to hear of your unsettling experience with such a wonderful breed. Speaking of which, the "wonderful breed" is a by-product of "credible, wonderful breeders," and a special thank you to the credible, wonderful OES breeders out there. Too many times here I've seen contributors keep the questionable kennel/breeder name a secret, for reasons that I do not understand. It's helpful to know who the "Bad Apples" are, and rest assured, I'll be keeping the name "Woodshadow Kennels" on my Radar Screen. |
| It appears that the correct spelling of the kennel name is WOODSSHADOW Kennel. SEE:http://woodsshadowkennel.com/ |
wjsVT wrote: Too many times here I've seen contributors keep the questionable kennel/breeder name a secret, for reasons that I do not understand. Because the contributors don't want to get sued, that's why. Our society is WAYYY to litigious nowadays. Instead of a person or company that provides a service getting better based on negative feedback, they just sue the party giving the negative feedback to shut them up. And even if they don't win their lawsuit, it will cost the defendent TONS of money to defend themselves against the lawsuit. It's just not worth it. |
| Well, I don't know about others' motivations, but as far as being sued? Opinion is opinion and the truth is an absolute defense. If you have documented things claimed and label opinion as such there's not much anyone can do. A lawyer can send a letter which can be responded to (or not), but a decent lawyer won't take the case beyond that. oes.org has been contacted and/or threatened any number of times from people upset by postings. As the publisher of other people's opinions, oes.org is not liable for the posts. If the aggrieved person is very nice I might be disposed to look into things and tone things down or even remove them if they make a convincing case. If they aren't nice, I tend not to be very accommodating. Occasionally I've whined about some consumer complaints because I've been busy and don't want to bring on the inevitable confrontational communications. However I generally try not to discourage consumer complaints (or praises) from our members. |
| I remember a story about a towing company in Michigan suing a guy because the guy posted negative stuff about the company online. Oh, here's the story: http://abcnews.go.com/Technology/michig ... d=10763142 And here's a link to a story about how you need to be careful what you post online: http://www.wired.com/techbiz/media/news ... ntPage=all This topic would make an excellent thread outside of this one. |
| The laws are different in Canada, so as Ron said, since you have documentation regarding the situation, go for it. |
| http://www.cba.org/bc/public_media/rights/240.aspx |
| My heart sank when I read your post. I searched for the right breeder, and extensively sought any negative posts online... didn't find any until now. we picked up our OES 2 years ago from Woodshadow kennel as well, and we have had a series of issues, ranging from eye and CONSTANT ear infections, skin problems that also keep him and us up all night from violent scratching fits. he is is uncomfortable it breaks my heart. we finally had to put him on allergy pills with steroids which calms the itching but how long can you keep a dog on these??? i called the breeder who said shave him down and shampoo him with anti-fungal meds... doesn't work. then at 2 years old the aggression really began. our dog has always been jumpy, and hyperactive when people visit, as in takes AGES to calm down. or when we walk by his behind he jumps and growls... this was somewhat manageable, and then the biting and aggressive attempts at biting began. we have worked with 2 different trainers and are hoping we will see results but bottom line is, as we feared, its the breeding. he is one day second happy, tail wagging, kissing, being so funny and sweet as he typically is, but then out of the blue someone will move a certain way, or touch him somewhere (the head or back, anywhere) and he now tries to bite - even small children. so he lives in a muzzle now unless with us alone at a park or at the house. it is truly heart breaking, we absolutely adore him but he is very stressful to be around, with the barking (high pitched) and inability to calm down. now if someone approaches him on a leash he will growl and try to bite even on occasion. he is a mess. we have worked hard with him, feed him a great diet, give him a ton of love, play time, exercise, socialization with other people and dogs from day 1... I have had suspicions for the past year it was the breeding but couldnt find any other complaints, and today saw this. when we went to see him for the second visit as a puppy his dad came out who was crazy. we thought they just dotn have time to train properly but now looking back our dog is the same as his father. and also there was a dog on the sofa in the house when we walked by, close to sofa, bared his/her teeth and growled. not really a typical OES trait. we should have seen the signs but were already so in love with the puppy we just ignored it and were excited about getting him home. not sure what to do? is this treatable if we work with a great trainer and dog whisperer / psychologist?? any advice would be greatly appreciated, we are desperate. |
| Sorry to hear the problems you are going through. "Hyperactivity" or puppy-like behavior is pretty normal in the breed, but the aggression shouldn't be. Our dog will be 10 years old In October (2012) and he's still a giant puppy. As far as the aggression goes, the very first thing to do is to rule out medical issues. Anyone -human or dog- will be grumpy if they're in constant pain, so a trip to the vet for this isn't out of the ordinary. Here are the things I'd look for (I hope I remember them all, and hope that others will jump in if I miss something: Hips Sight and hearing Thyroid levels General health and allergies Since there's issues with walking up from behind, I would be checking for hearing and sight as well as the hip issues/ Dogs can be pretty good at hiding deficits so you might not notice if he was having hearing or sight problems. Several folks have told us here that people wouldn't know their dog was completely blind unless they were told. Low Thyroid levels are a problem in our breed. Low thyroid can cause aggression issues. Good luck... please register here so you can follow this thread and others in our community. Welcome! |
Guest wrote: My heart sank when I read your post. I searched for the right breeder, and extensively sought any negative posts online... didn't find any until now. we picked up our OES 2 years ago from Woodshadow kennel as well, and we have had a series of issues, ranging from eye and CONSTANT ear infections, skin problems that also keep him and us up all night from violent scratching fits. he is is uncomfortable it breaks my heart. we finally had to put him on allergy pills with steroids which calms the itching but how long can you keep a dog on these??? i called the breeder who said shave him down and shampoo him with anti-fungal meds... doesn't work. then at 2 years old the aggression really began. our dog has always been jumpy, and hyperactive when people visit, as in takes AGES to calm down. or when we walk by his behind he jumps and growls... this was somewhat manageable, and then the biting and aggressive attempts at biting began. we have worked with 2 different trainers and are hoping we will see results but bottom line is, as we feared, its the breeding. he is one day second happy, tail wagging, kissing, being so funny and sweet as he typically is, but then out of the blue someone will move a certain way, or touch him somewhere (the head or back, anywhere) and he now tries to bite - even small children. so he lives in a muzzle now unless with us alone at a park or at the house. it is truly heart breaking, we absolutely adore him but he is very stressful to be around, with the barking (high pitched) and inability to calm down. now if someone approaches him on a leash he will growl and try to bite even on occasion. he is a mess. we have worked hard with him, feed him a great diet, give him a ton of love, play time, exercise, socialization with other people and dogs from day 1... I have had suspicions for the past year it was the breeding but couldnt find any other complaints, and today saw this. when we went to see him for the second visit as a puppy his dad came out who was crazy. we thought they just dotn have time to train properly but now looking back our dog is the same as his father. and also there was a dog on the sofa in the house when we walked by, close to sofa, bared his/her teeth and growled. not really a typical OES trait. we should have seen the signs but were already so in love with the puppy we just ignored it and were excited about getting him home. not sure what to do? is this treatable if we work with a great trainer and dog whisperer / psychologist?? any advice would be greatly appreciated, we are desperate. Being on steroids at such a young age for a long time is not good. Since you & your vet have suspected allergies, the 1st thing I would do is get your dog to a dermatology/allgery veterinary specialst. They will run some test to find out exactly what he is allergic to & start you on a program to desensitize him to the same. It may require taking him off steroids for a specific length of time BEFORE they do the testing in order for them to get a true reading. Steroids have their place & can help in certain instances but I doubt very much that it is good for him to be on them for extended periods of time at such a young age not to mention that they suppress the immune system & make him more suseptible to illnesses going around. Once you have this physical portion under control you can work on training him to see if you can work around these problems. It may work out & it may not....as you said, the temperment issue could also be in the breeding. But in any case you will never be able to accomplish much in the way of training as long as he is on steroids or uncomfortable. |
| Here are links to two great resources: http://cvm.msu.edu/hospital/services/de ... letter.pdf http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q= ... PuNdr3dCFQ ChSheepdogs wrote: Guest wrote: My heart sank when I read your post. I searched for the right breeder, and extensively sought any negative posts online... didn't find any until now. we picked up our OES 2 years ago from Woodshadow kennel as well, and we have had a series of issues, ranging from eye and CONSTANT ear infections, skin problems that also keep him and us up all night from violent scratching fits. he is is uncomfortable it breaks my heart. we finally had to put him on allergy pills with steroids which calms the itching but how long can you keep a dog on these??? i called the breeder who said shave him down and shampoo him with anti-fungal meds... doesn't work. then at 2 years old the aggression really began. our dog has always been jumpy, and hyperactive when people visit, as in takes AGES to calm down. or when we walk by his behind he jumps and growls... this was somewhat manageable, and then the biting and aggressive attempts at biting began. we have worked with 2 different trainers and are hoping we will see results but bottom line is, as we feared, its the breeding. he is one day second happy, tail wagging, kissing, being so funny and sweet as he typically is, but then out of the blue someone will move a certain way, or touch him somewhere (the head or back, anywhere) and he now tries to bite - even small children. so he lives in a muzzle now unless with us alone at a park or at the house. it is truly heart breaking, we absolutely adore him but he is very stressful to be around, with the barking (high pitched) and inability to calm down. now if someone approaches him on a leash he will growl and try to bite even on occasion. he is a mess. we have worked hard with him, feed him a great diet, give him a ton of love, play time, exercise, socialization with other people and dogs from day 1... I have had suspicions for the past year it was the breeding but couldnt find any other complaints, and today saw this. when we went to see him for the second visit as a puppy his dad came out who was crazy. we thought they just dotn have time to train properly but now looking back our dog is the same as his father. and also there was a dog on the sofa in the house when we walked by, close to sofa, bared his/her teeth and growled. not really a typical OES trait. we should have seen the signs but were already so in love with the puppy we just ignored it and were excited about getting him home. not sure what to do? is this treatable if we work with a great trainer and dog whisperer / psychologist?? any advice would be greatly appreciated, we are desperate. Being on steroids at such a young age for a long time is not good. Since you & your vet have suspected allergies, the 1st thing I would do is get your dog to a dermatology/allgery veterinary specialst. They will run some test to find out exactly what he is allergic to & start you on a program to desensitize him to the same. It may require taking him off steroids for a specific length of time BEFORE they do the testing in order for them to get a true reading. Steroids have their place & can help in certain instances but I doubt very much that it is good for him to be on them for extended periods of time at such a young age not to mention that they suppress the immune system & make him more suseptible to illnesses going around. Once you have this physical portion under control you can work on training him to see if you can work around these problems. It may work out & it may not....as you said, the temperment issue could also be in the breeding. But in any case you will never be able to accomplish much in the way of training as long as he is on steroids or uncomfortable. |
| I am so sorry to hear that you have also had a bad experience. One thing that we noticed was how aggressive Daisy got when on steroids. It's a rare side effect, but as soon as we took her off them she stopped snarling and baring her teeth. Right now our issue is walking her on leash. She's great until she sees another dog and then she barks and lunges aggressively. It's so embarrassing and we wanted a sheepdog because they are friendly. |
| Thanks everyone for the feedback. We are going back to the vet again... after the cost of buying our OES and the vets visits, meds, training we have spent well over $7000 in the past 2 years... but we love our dog and if we get him sorted then worth every penny. we will take your advice and go off the steroids, ask the vet to test his thyroid. he did a vision and hearing test previously and hips. he has arthritis. at 2 years... there was another incident this weekend when all of a sudden my husband and i could tell he was about to become aggressive... we can now read his mood changes but didn't get the muzzle on him fast enough and he bit my sister who just put out her hand to have him sniff it. we know its his anxiety and fear aggression and are terrified we wont be able to "fix" him. we will try all possible avenues though. we are both almost fearful of him at times when he slips into one of his aggressive moods. its really crazy. my brother in law who has raised and trained 8 or 9 dogs was trying to make him calm, petting his head but he kept growling and if the muzzle wasn't on would have bit him at least 5 times. its so stressful. we don't ever want to have people over anymore, and I am sure that our family and friends don't want us visiting with our dog who now most people are afraid of. we have an appointment in September with a behavioral dog psych who will be able to tell us if these problems are trainable. i am suspecting not since its likely the breeding... any additional thoughts or suggestions welcome. lastly - what do we do about the breeder?? |
| Shoot them. Is that too extreme? Obviously, that was tongue in cheek. I'm so sorry for what you've been through but it's good to see you are set in sorting this out. Please keep us posted. Vance |
| we have the appointment with our vet to check thyroid and brain tumours. we have spoken with a trainer that boards your dog to work with fear aggression and anxiety for 2-3 weeks. they have excellent credentials and we have our first meeting with them tomorrow night. fingers crossed. |
| Our paws are crossed for you. We had a thryoid problem here and after getting tested and using the meds, I have a whole new dog! Is there a training facility you can take some obedience classes in? They will help too. Just make sure you pick someone who understands the breed and the particular problems with this pup so they can use the training methods for your particular dog. Nothing too harsh. Good Luck. Our pawas are crossed for good luck for you! |
| I too was taken by this breeder. I was there and did see his trophys and ribbons for breeding. The puppy I purchased was small and underweight but I was assured he was just a runt. He was in fact sick and I was encouraged by my vet to return him after I spent quite a bit to try and care for him. I did but was not totally refunded and Bill (Woodshadow Kennel) 0wner did not acknowledge the test result and my vet even called him and tried to speak with the vet Bill supposedly uses for his OES dogs. I did see that Bill tried to re-sell the poor puppy I had - hopefully no one else fell victum to this scam. I miss the puppy very much but my vet felt that he would not live or be able to mature to an adult. I did try every avenue to be reimbused but to no avail I am still out money from this breeder. I would discourage anyone from purchasing from this kennel or anyone associated with him. |
| We got our OES from Bill way back in 1996. Loving dog with severe anxiety issues when my husband would be away from home for work. Good natured and gentle with kids. Loved Max to bits! He had health problems as well with his hips. We are looking for an adult OES and this summer were near this kennel and stopped by to confirm that we would not be getting another dog from them. They were giving us a "great deal" if we left with a puppy right then. We were on vacation and this was not an option from any breeder, certainly not this breeder again. The dogs they had were running everywhere in unsafe areas- wood/ metal piles etc. and one little dog had the most shrunken back end I have ever seen. I actually wanted to take all the dogs from him just to make sure they would be well cared for. We went out back to see the adults and there were 3 and 4 per pen. All of the adults were freaking out when we walked by them. Bill would yell at them and try to grab them (the puppies) to put them in the pens. When he grabbed them he would grab ears, fur etc. what ever he could. The puppies would cry in pain. I couldn't get out of there fast enough because I just wanted to cry. How can this kennel still be in business? And how can he be stopped from breeding any more dogs? |
| Can't we report this guy to someone? |
| I also purchased a puppy from Woodshadow Kennels a year ago. I have experienced problems with my puppy's (Molly) temperament. She was really aggressive for several months, biting all the time. I bled several times. Her aggression subsided, but she has a crazy personality. The only health issue I've had so far is a cist on her back, which is genetic. She also had scabs all over and fleas, which we noticed after bringing her home the first day. After reading these posts, I worry she is going to have health issues. Can you guys please let me know the parents names of your puppies. I'm curious to see if Molly was bred by the same parents. Thanks. Craig |
| I am so sorry to hear several of you have had such horrible experiences with this kennel. And I feel sorry for the dogs who have had to endure illness and discomfort throughout their lives. It is extremely troublesome since you both made an earnest attempt to research and find a good breeder. There are resources out there (this forum, http://www.oldenglishsheepdogclubofamerica.org) to help but not everyone finds them. I think it is always best to see both of the puppy's parents & the physical conditions where the pups were born if at all possible. Realistically it isn't always possible, I know. I would have NO problem asking other breeders about the reputation of a kennel. A reputable breeder should welcome such inquiries. What is unethical is the experience you (and the dogs) have been put through, not making an honest inquiry about the facts regarding a breeder's reputation. Purchasing a puppy, adopting a rescue and owning a dog is a HUGE lifetime commitment. I encourage anyone to do WHATEVER IT TAKES to find a healthy puppy with a reasonable expectation of good temperament. Linda Z |
| Could all the people who have purchased from bad kennels make a complaint to do the local authorities (that count - not sure who you would contact), so they can look into the kennels, and maybe get them shut down. It sounds like a bad situation for the dogs. If you are a new pet owner you may not be aware that these kind of kennels exist. It is usually from other peoples experiences that we learn that we need to do thorough research when getting a puppy, so if we make a mistake the first time around, we should not feel really bad but it would be best to make a complaint to the authorities about the kennel. The more complaints they get the more likely the kennel will be looked into for improper conditions and bad business practices. |
| Visited Woodsshadow recently to view dam & sire - 1st time there. Already sent our deposit. Very concerned! Dogs were (very) dirty, kennel was dirty, and the smell was so bad I was gagging! Was it like this for others who went there or have things deteriorated? Please advise as soon as possible! I think we should be requesting the deposit back & looking elsewhere asap! |
| I would encourage you to try to get back your deposit. I don't think you will be able to though. I would count it as a learning experience and research the heck out of the next "breeder" you choose. You may want to start with the breed club website. At least it is a starting place. Shellie |
| RUN, don't walk, and make sure you get your deposit back. I hope I am not too late! |
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