Is this a good place to get a puppy?

Hi everyone! I'm looking at getting my first oes puppy, and after looking at a lot of websites, I found feathers and fleece farms in Indiana and I'm wondering if anyone has gotten a puppy from them and knows of they're any good or not. The stuff on their website looks good to me, but of course it's easy to write whatever you want on a website. (:
If anyone knows anything, that would be great, thanks.
Respond to this topic here on forum.oes.org  
I'd say run, not walk, away.
I know nothing about them personally, just from what I see and read on their website.
got sheep wrote:
I'd say run, not walk, away.
I know nothing about them personally, just from what I see and read on their website.


What makes you say that?
Please read these:
viewtopic.php?f=14&t=7690
viewtopic.php?f=14&t=28696

and then go here:
http://www.oldenglishsheepdogclubofamerica.org/

It's a good place to start.

Anything you might find online as far as websites should be researched
to death- and BRAVO to you for coming here to the experts to ask!
I see several red flags with the above mentioned breeder. Spend some
time in the getting a puppy section and you may get a better feel for what
you should look for in a breeder.
Others will probably chime in, and we do have some really great informative
and knowledgeable people here.
Good luck.

Shellie
At first glance this would be a dangerous place for me as OES and Great Pyrs are "my" breeds.......and I'd love to have another Newfie (I've had just one). But just because a breeder shares my interest doesn't mean they are producing quality puppies. Certified for elbows and hips.....how? Vet check or professional certification and registered? Nothing on eyes and hearing?? Baloney Great Pyr doesn't do elbow and hips.......quality breeders do. I'd do more research on hip, elbow, eye and hearing certification and grill them to make sure they are actually doing these and can show professtion certification and numbers. (These are not the only genetic disorders in dogs, if we listed all the list would be longhttp://www.gopetsamerica.com/dog-health/genetic_diseases.aspx ....but are the ones seen most often) For more OES specific: http://www.upei.ca/~cidd/intro.htm......scroll to OES under breeds.

I'd ask about what would they do if a pup comes up with problems within a year.......often hip problems can be found before the first year. Will they refund money, take back pup? (yeah like you'd give up a pup after a week or two). What about the dog if something happens to you and you can no longer care for it? Will they take it back or does the dog go to the shelter?

This is a production farm........not producing eggs or wheat.......but puppies, apparently well loved puppies. A bad dog used in breeding contaminates the breed's overall gene pool, especially if any of the pups goes on to breed.

If these are two certified (and verified by you) sound dogs being bred, then I'd have no problem, but we don't know the genetic history, what problems may be showing up in older dogs. Breeders who care brag about their dogs' health certification and are right up front with verifiable results, temperment testing (Companion Dog just for starters) and other achievements: agility, sheepherding, therapy work...and maybe show ring to reinforce overall attempt at high breed standard).

I may seem a bit harsh, but a dog with bad hips may end up needing surgery to the tune of $10,000 per hip. Deaf dogs are no less loving but take a greater commitment to their care.....they don't hear danger. (A friend has 2 deaf OES rescues, a third was recently killed when it became agitated when it saw a squirrel and ran out into the street). Bad elbows is life long pain for the dog.......but correctable if caught early, surgery and $$$. Blindness......sigh.
All I can say is run. I see no information about pedigrees. They say they have 1 mating pair of OES. If they want to continue to breed OES, at some point they have to have additional ones as you really shouldn't breed a bitch more than 3 times in her lifetime & ideally skipping a heat cycle inbetween. So are they going to keep some of their own puppies & later on breed them? If so, are they breeding a mother/son, father/daugher, brother/sister combination? Any of these are inviting major problems from inbreeding (which is totally different from line breeding.) I see information about OFA testing but nothing about actual results. If they have only 1 mating pair of OES it wouldn't be that difficult to put the exact OFA ratings up on the website. To expect a deposit before a litter is on the ground is not good. They are hooking you in . If you give a deposit you are bound to purchase a puppy from them within 2 years or forfiet your deposit. (We only ask for deposits after we have a litter on the ground & know we have what you are looking for). To ask puppy buyers to choose their puppy within 4 weeks of birth is ridiculous. The majority of puppy buyers have no clue which puppy would be best for them other than which is the cutest to them. As reputable breeders with decades of experience we start evaluating the puppies at birth for not only conformation (structure) but for temperment so you get the best puppy for your life style/family situation. As for the price differences......breeders sell their puppies in all different price ranges. But the deciding factor in price should not be whether you want a limited registration (AKC registerable & allowed to compete in all performance events but you can't breed your dog & register any of their puppies) or a full registration (AKC registerable, allowed to compete in all AKC events & if you decide to breed your dog the puppies are also AKC registerable). The breeder should be deciding which ones might be good enough to use in a breeding program in the future & remember you won't know that for sure until at least 2 years of age when they get their hips certified. If they don't get a passing OFA rating, you would have paid their top price for a dog that you should not breed. And possibly my biggest concern is I noticed they offer a mix of a Newfoundland & Komondor. No reputable breeder would intentionally breed 2 purebred dogs of different breeds.
A couple things...

On their Komondor page it shows a photo of one of their dogs with a gay tail - this means the tail curls up over it's back (like a Siberian Husky - which for this breed is a correct tail). In the Komondor this is a huge fault - the tail is to hang low and never cross the line of the back.

On the Pyr page they brag about one of their breeding bitches who has a "rare fine coat" - and also that she passes it on to 90% of her puppies.. Well it's RARE because it's the incorrect coat for this breed of dog. They are taking a breed fault and preying on unsuspecting people by calling it rare and making it sound like it's a desired thing. Very unscrupulous people! :evil:

One the OES page, they say a lot of words, but none of it is really meaningful. No facts, no proof of anything. They are just trying to make things sound all nice and rosy. And the "one breeding pair" - that is just wrong. Most breeders (of any breed) don't go buy a male and a female and just keep breeding and selling puppies. You search and look around for a male to compliment and correct any faults your female may have - and you contact that dog's owner about a breeding. The odds of going out and buying 2 pups that grow into the perfect match for each other is highly remote. :roll:

And then the whole mixed breed breeding and selling them.... :evil:
There are only two breeders I know and would recommend in Indiana. Both are on the OESCA breeder referral page.
She claims her OES are OFA Certified.....I just checked the OFA website www.offa.org and neither her breeding male, female, or their parents have had OFA certifications done.
To the original poster: Please listen to all these great posters! A well-bred sheepdog is such an incredibly wonderful joy. So it is absolutely heartbreaking when we hear someone who has always dreamed of having a sheepdog and they end up getting a very poorly bred one with serious health and/or behaviour problems and their dream is ruined (there have been people who have posted this sad story here, going from a lifelong dream of getting a sheepdog to saying they will never get another sheepdog). It is so sad because we absolutely love this breed and we know how wonderful the dogs can be. So any recommendations or suggestions from our most knowledgeable members here are made because they'd want you to have the best chance possible of having a wonderful sheepdog!
Also, the prices they are charging are quite high for less than quality animals. You can get a better bred dog from someone who does the testing available (to minimize possibilities of things going wrong) for not that much more money....again proving they are not looking out for the breeds they have. Seems to be more a case of selling puppies at a high price because the demand is there. They are close to prices of pups from breeders who have a lot more investment in the breed and making them the best they can possibly be.
After just a bit of research......as Amber said, neither OES is OFA certified. Nor are any of the parents of these 2 OES.

The mother of "Liberty" was bred at 20 months of age to produce Liberty's litter. Not good. Bitches should not be bred beofre OFA Certification & that can not be done for permanent rating until 24 months of age. A prelim can be done at 18 months but you still need to do the permanent one at age 2.

The father of "Patriot" was used at stud to produce that litter at the age of 1 nyear. Not only was he too young for OFA certification, he should not have even had a prelim done until 18 months.

So their claims of OFA certications on these 2 OES they have just are not true. Now the parent of these 2 OES may be certified at a later date (doesn't show so on the OFA site tho') but it still remains that both of these OES have at least 1 parent each that could not have been certified at the time of breeding due to being used at too young of an age.

They state early on under the OES information that they were going to have a litter due "early fall of 2010" (I know this is long gone, past) which means that if the puppies were even due say mid- October or mid -November neither parent, Liberty or Patriot, were old enough for OFA certification at the time of breeding or at the time of birth of the litter.

They mention that they are expecting a litter early summer 2012. If that is the case, this breeding pair is now old enough for OFA Certification. So where are the results of their OFA x-rays?

And OFA is only the tip of the iceberg when it comes to health testing of breeding stock. A very necessary & important test but there are also other tests that should be done prior to breeding.

They mention that if you want a full registiration you need to let them know that at the time you send a deposit for they can make sure to get the certrifications done for those puppies. Well, whether you choose to buy one of the pups on a limited or full registration, the certifications are done on the PARENTS, not the puppies.

Elsewhere on the website they talk about "confirmation". Especailly where people ask about drooling. Something to the effect of if you choose a dog of good "confirmation", you will not have those kinds of problems or at least lessen the chances of having them. Well, the word is conformation (conforming to a standard) not confirmation.

As for the health guarantee....I see nothing for genetic problems that may occur. These would be problems that are passed on thru breeding....such as hip displaysia, inhalent allergies, PRA etc.

This entire website shouts BYB to me. I am sure they love their animals. Who doesn't fall in love with puppies, especially OES puppies. If you don't know all the right questions to ask when you go to this breeder you very well could end up with an OES with problems. Their prices are a bit lower than reputable breeders in the area but they also are not putting out the money for health testing that helps to produce a better quality, healthier OES nor are they putting out money for stud service.
Wow! Okay, thanks everybody. I'll start looking for somewhere else to get a puppy. I'm new to all this so you've all been very helpful!
One more thing. It would be really great if someone could give me a list of questions I should ask a breeder before choosing to get a puppy from them. I'm just not entirely sure what I should be looking for. I know I need to check for OFA, and that they should have more than one pair of dogs for breeding. What else do I need to know?
snazzierella wrote:
One more thing. It would be really great if someone could give me a list of questions I should ask a breeder before choosing to get a puppy from them. I'm just not entirely sure what I should be looking for. I know I need to check for OFA, and that they should have more than one pair of dogs for breeding. What else do I need to know?


http://www.oesocc.com/choosingabreeder.html
Thanks to Jaci (6Girls) :bow: :bow: :bow: there's great info for that as well. http://www.untilyoufindme.com/

Click on the "Buying an Old English Sheepdog Puppy" heading and there's wonderful information on this!
Blueshire wrote:
snazzierella wrote:
One more thing. It would be really great if someone could give me a list of questions I should ask a breeder before choosing to get a puppy from them. I'm just not entirely sure what I should be looking for. I know I need to check for OFA, and that they should have more than one pair of dogs for breeding. What else do I need to know?


http://www.oesocc.com/choosingabreeder.html



Thank you very much! :)
This site might help you too.

http://www.oldenglishsheepdogclubofamer ... ectory.php
Jade, I'm glad you will look elsewhere. I know people who would have bristled at all of this which is why I said..... "I'd have no problem".............but I'd be going in the agreement knowing the dogs are not as represented....basically a crap shoot. Some people just don't care, they want that pup. At one point I typed and later erased....it is very hard to tell how well your breeding line is when the pups are going out the door at 8 weeks. Realize my dogs have mostly been rescues.....other people's discards and brimming with health concerns. Plus I was seriously tired when I wrote that......I'm surprised it sorta makes sense.

Thank you for being a responsible future owner and hope you stick with us here and share our love for the breed and hopefully your future puppy.

Yes, I was turned off seeing the 2 breed puppies.....something with a Newf. That's their attempt to cash in on the designer puppy market.....creating something cute..... still mutts....and charging big bucks. I can understand an "oops breeding" but not a deliberate attempt to create something solely for profit.

No way you want a soft coated Pyr!!!! I had two: Fox and Glacier.......what a pain in the toot to maintain. That is not a desirable characteristic in Pyrs! A perfect coated Pyr is not soft......and while still labor intensive, a dream. Dirt basically rolls off.........Paige.....she was a properly bred Pyr from a very respectable line.
Jade, I am excited that you came on here and asked your questions and really listened to the experienced people who answered. When you DO find your OES puppy, I hope that you come back here and tell us about him/her and show us some pictures so that we can ooh and aww over the cuteness!
Mady wrote:
Jade, I am excited that you came on here and asked your questions and really listened to the experienced people who answered. When you DO find your OES puppy, I hope that you come back here and tell us about him/her and show us some pictures so that we can ooh and aww over the cuteness!



I second that! :D
Mady wrote:
Jade, I am excited that you came on here and asked your questions and really listened to the experienced people who answered. When you DO find your OES puppy, I hope that you come back here and tell us about him/her and show us some pictures so that we can ooh and aww over the cuteness!


We think we've found our puppy today, actually :)
Her parents are OFA and CERF certified! The price wasn't too bad, and the breeder actually lives closer to us than the other one did. She's twelve weeks old right now. She's one of two that weren't already picked, so we're going to go see them and make sure there's no temperamental issues with her, or her parents. The lady selling them has been very nice and answered every question I've had so far. The puppy has had her first and second shots and she has been wormed. Thanks to everyone here on the forum I feel like I'm making a good choice, you've all been super informative! I'll post a picture of her in a second.
Is there anything super important that I need to know before I buy this puppy? I think I've mostly got it covered, but you guys know a whole lot more than I do (:
Image
That's her! We've decided to name her Eevee, after the pokemon (we're total nerds).
We get new pictures of her tomorrow after she has a bath!
What a sweetie.
Cant wait to see more pics
Lisa Frankie and Mattie
That was quick!
I can't wait to see more and learn more about Eevee.
There are many of us with pups or getting pups soon - so we will have fun!
We're very excited to get her (: If all goes well, we will be bringing her home sometime in the next two weeks.
Maggie McGee IV wrote:
Thanks to Jaci (6Girls) :bow: :bow: :bow: there's great info for that as well. http://www.untilyoufindme.com/

Click on the "Buying an Old English Sheepdog Puppy" heading and there's wonderful information on this!


^ This was one of the most helpful things in regards to knowing what to ask about/look for, thanks for posting this!
Congratulations! You sure worked fast! Eevee is adorable! :hearts:
sheepiezone wrote:
Congratulations! You sure worked fast! Eevee is adorable! :hearts:

Thanks! I got lucky, really. I went and took a second look at a lot of websites and noticed there was a breeder in MI with female puppies, so I emailed her and luckily there were a couple left! I can't wait to meet Eevee in person, she's just too cute! :D
I've had my heart set on getting an OES since I was fourteen, I just love everything about them. I can't believe I'm finally getting one!
Great news! More and more pictures are mandatory.
SheepieBoss wrote:
Great news! More and more pictures are mandatory.

The breeder said she is giving her a bath and then sending me new pictures tomorrow. :D
Congratulations! Can't wait for more pics!
Congratulations! :cheer: :cheer: :cheer: Stick around, post pictures and share your new sheepdog with us!
Baba wrote:
Congratulations! :cheer: :cheer: :cheer: Stick around, post pictures and share your new sheepdog with us!


I plan on it! :D
Oh how exciting!! Congratulations!
How are you? My family and I are looking for an OES puppy. We purchased our first sheepdog from a breeder in Michigan and while he was a very sweet and loving dog, he had many serious health issues. I thought I had researched the breeder carefully but I was very disappointed with all of our pup's issues. Now we are looking again and I'm very hesitant about which breeder to choose. I was told any good breeder will not ship their puppies so I'm looking for a breeder that's within a 5 hour or so driving distance from NYC. Any help or guidance would be sincerely appreciated.
Lauren
Guest wrote:
How are you? My family and I are looking for an OES puppy. We purchased our first sheepdog from a breeder in Michigan and while he was a very sweet and loving dog, he had many serious health issues. I thought I had researched the breeder carefully but I was very disappointed with all of our pup's issues. Now we are looking again and I'm very hesitant about which breeder to choose. I was told any good breeder will not ship their puppies so I'm looking for a breeder that's within a 5 hour or so driving distance from NYC. Any help or guidance would be sincerely appreciated.
Lauren


The breeder I got my puppy from was a very nice lady, and her dogs are OFA certified. I don't know how far she would be from you because she is in Ann Arbor, MI. If you're looking, some good places to start are:
http://www.oldenglishsheepdogclubofamer ... ectory.php - OESCA breeder directory
http://www.akc.org/classified/search/la ... d_code=820 - AKC breeder classifieds (I found my puppy through this site).
If you aren't sure what you should be asking about and looking for, this site was very helpful:
http://www.untilyoufindme.com/Buying-An ... -Puppy.htm
Good luck in your search! (:
Guest wrote:
How are you? My family and I are looking for an OES puppy. We purchased our first sheepdog from a breeder in Michigan and while he was a very sweet and loving dog, he had many serious health issues. I thought I had researched the breeder carefully but I was very disappointed with all of our pup's issues. Now we are looking again and I'm very hesitant about which breeder to choose. I was told any good breeder will not ship their puppies so I'm looking for a breeder that's within a 5 hour or so driving distance from NYC. Any help or guidance would be sincerely appreciated.
Lauren



Lauren: Whether a breeder ships or not does not make them a good or bad breeder. Many of the best & most honest & most reputable breeders will ship their puppies. As a buyer, people have to know the right questions to ask about the breeders breeding program. It takes a lot of studying & researching to ask the correct questions about any breed of dog. Also rememer, no matter how hard good breeders try to produce the best dog possible, breeding is not a perfect science. We do the best we can do to produce healthy, well tempered puppies. But like anything else, at times, what looks good on paper doesn't play out the same in real life.
Bad things do happen despite careful planning and selection. There are no guarantees you'll get that healthy dog you're seeking but you may possibly reduce the chance of some health issues.

Ask for the registered names of the breeding pair and search the OFA website for their opinions on health. Verify that both dogs have been cleared for hips, thyroid, CERF (eyes)... maybe elbows. If a breeder doesn't OFA, walk away. :wink:

Ask what health conditions are known to affect the lines... those conditions should also be tested for if at all possible. Breeding dogs should be proven healthy before they ever produce a litter if you're paying a high price for one of their puppies. The price paid should reflect the amount of testing and work that's gone into making the puppy before you. There are minimum qualities that just make sense if you're paying a lot of money.

Ask why two dogs were brought together to produce a litter... especially if both dogs are on the property. Was it careful planning or was it convenience.

Ask too whether a breeder refunds any of the purchase price if the dog proves to be poor in health. I've known some that have refunded everything, half, a set fee or nothing at all.

In the end, it can still be a crap shoot so consider health insurance on your new puppy... a policy that pays well (not just a low fixed amount per condition) and covers genetic conditions. I advise carrying it for the first two years. If you find your dog is healthy at that point, drop it or reduce the coverage level. If you find you've gotten a dog with poor genetics or just individually poor in health, you'll at least reduce one of your worries... funding care for your beloved companion.

Life requires us to take chances... so plan well, then go for it. No matter what, life without an OES is simply not an option for many of us here.

Best wishes in finding a healthy and loving pup! :hearts:
got sheep wrote:
A couple things...

On their Komondor page it shows a photo of one of their dogs with a gay tail - this means the tail curls up over it's back (like a Siberian Husky - which for this breed is a correct tail). In the Komondor this is a huge fault - the tail is to hang low and never cross the line of the back.



The first thing that jumped out at me is that anyone who knows anything about the Komondor knows that the plural of Komondor is Komondorok, not Komondors. And Dawn is right, the fact that tail is high like that makes me think that something else may have jumped into the gene pool. Even their bodies look too compact.

Just the fact that they couldn't be bothered with spell check shows their attention to detail...
Feathers and fleece sends pedigrees and ofa certifications to every deposit placed client
I have purchased two dogs from them.
Whoever write that response must be jealous of such a nice and well ran facility
Susan B
Just wanted to respond to the Komondor post.
Obviously you are familiar with this rare breed
Her Komondors are unbelievable perfect and tail is perfect.
People who post such stupid things irritate me.
You obviously do not know this farm or this breeder.
I agree with Susan b. you are a jealous breeder.
Hey. I love feathers and fleece farm.
I bought a newfkom from them.
Awesome! I played with all the dogs there.
Back off.
Every dog I saw was stunning! She has books of certifications and pedigrees she showed us -
Also has her vets are listed on her website to call for References- I know of no other breeder that does that ---do you?.

These are good folks that only breed good stuff.
You can go to the farm and interact with the dogs
And she baked us cookies too.
Oh I researched Komondors before I purchased. Feathers and fleece kimondors are more than perfect. I saw the pedigrees - champion bloodlines pal!! Stop trying to spread hate. Get educated
Ann Arbor
I stumbled upon this forum trying to see if Jennifer's farm had any new litters of great pyrs planned. What a horrible forum of hateful people.
I wish I hadn't read this stuff.
You are writing about stuff you know nothing about.
Get a life.
This is why people go to feathers and fleece because she isn't like you.
Not cut throat / just honest.
Clean and would never post these kind of untruths
Liberty
Just wanted to answer the original ladies question.
You can't get an OES from them. They are booked for up to a year in advance
Get on list now. There is a reason why the list is so long.
Only great breeders are this booked.
I hate anonymous guest posts. :x
You people are pathetic !
This farm is an advocate for OFA and was among the first to
Suggest great oyrenees should be certified.
I have two Great Pyrenees from there.
The farm is exceptional and the dogs are too
I would suggest this forum be terminated.
This has nothing to do with this farm , my guess is that
It has more to do with competition.

Grow up !
Pretty sure all those guest posts are from this so called "breeder". newfkom? kimindors? pyrs too? AKA puppymill.
Guest wrote:
I would suggest this forum be terminated.


And I would suggest you post your whole name and town.
I don't know Mark, those guest posts are quite entertaining. They are all likely written by the same person (same style of writing/grammar/posted one after another) yet they is attempts to make it look like they are from different people. Maybe several people did happen to post almost identical posts one after another, the internet is full of possibilities!

There is no doubt that they love their dogs (judging only from their website) but the nasty anonymous posts posing as different people and several insults to the people posting here don't demonstrate a lot of integrity. (But again, this is just my opinion, given I am posting on an internet forum you can take it or leave it :) )

There was an honest question asked and people gave their opinions based on their own experiences. Isn't that what an internet forum is for? No need to get nasty now guest(s).
You're right. They are entertaining. And I know they shouldn't bother me, but I've never liked the ability of a person to say something anonamously. If you really mean something, stand behind your words.
What I really enjoy is that the Guest 'Fans' have got all excited 6 months after the original post. And I agree if you have an opinion express it and use your own name.

Debs
That is pretty funny how all those guest reviews are within 10 minutes of each other, written in the same style and are the only comments that compliment the breeding farm/mill.
Monster Celyn wrote:
What I really enjoy is that the Guest 'Fans' have got all excited 6 months after the original post. And I agree if you have an opinion express it and use your own name.

Debs


It usually happens, sometimes repeatedly, when said breeder has a litter or more of puppies to unload and is concerned about bad reviews turning potential customers off.

We went through this with a different (OES) "breeder" (well known to rescue in her area) several times - it became really, really tedious :roll:

kristine
:excited:
Holy cow, I haven't laughed this hard in a long time! Those recent
"guest" posts are too funny. I guess this person isn't intelligent
enough to understand that we all know this is a single poster! And
to tell us we aren't educated about breeds - hysterical considering to whom
they were referring!
While I did REALLY laugh at those posts, it's kinda sad at the same time.
(and did I see "guest" purchased a mutt mix?)

Shellie
I looked up their OES in the OFA database and got nothing, the pyrs had their OFA but I couldn't find anything about the OES. I even emailed them myself to inquire about it in case it was a mistake, if the dogs really were certified they surely could have sent proof,but they never even responded. Yeah, I'm glad I trusted these folks here at the OES forum instead of going with the first thing that looks nice. They know their stuff!
My God, I just looked at Feathers and Fleece website. Frightening!

The mongrels they breed are some of the most frightening looking dogs that I have ever seen.

Are the alleged breeders known to be members of a cult?
I find the postings here a little harsh. I hope the breeders at the Feathers and Fleece Farm
see this site and respond. I hope that the new puppy owners will tell the facts about the puppies they have purchased from this breeder.

As far as the newfcom puppies looking scary, I disagree. I think they are adorable!
The remark about the breeders possibly belonging to a cult was too personal and very mean.
Hateful people without faces on the Web!

I hope my grammar and spelling is correct, since this topic was also an issue on this blog.
Talk about nit-picking! I guess some people are so smart that they don't ever make a mistake or mistype a word.

I feel sorry for the whole bunch of ya......
I guess I figure if you aren't even a member or don't identify yourself
your posts are fair game. Sorry if that offends, but many of these guest
posts are pretty stupid, repetitive, and offensive to many of us who ARE members.
The irony is, the more posts in these threads, the more often they come
up on a search.... :mrgreen:

Shellie
Omg, I peeked to see what the hub bub was about.

WTF seriously newfy kom mixes? Sheepie poodle mixes UGH. They boast that the "newfykoms" are non shedding saying the mix of the two also never drool or have the issues of large breeds. HA!!!!!!!!!

If this was a joke it would be a great one but unfortunately its not, its just sad.


I hope the breeders see this. I don't think it's harsh at all to say people like this are ruining good breeds of dogs and are just in it for the money. I feel sorry for people that actually go to their site, read that crap and believe it.
Hi there! Feathers and Fleece Farm is a GREAT place to get a puppy! I have experience with them and know them and have the most perfect Kom puppy from them. Jennifer is great, honest, ethical and loving with all the pups. Her farm is gorgeous, clean and classy. She is not a puppy mill nor does she in-breed the dogs. She has a REALLY nice clean farm and the litters are born and raised in the house so they are closely monitored and safe. They all learn to do their instinctual guarding or herding work depending on the breed. Her OESs are gorgeous and healthy and are OFA certified with a health promise and males are even DNA certified with AKC. Whoever in a previous post said 'don't walk, run' does not know this breeder and even said so that they do not know the breeder. If you do not know someone or do not have the facts in which to form an honest opinion you should not be commenting at all (in my opinion). This person also said that one of Jennifer's Komondor's has a curled tail and that is a fault. One who knows about Komondors knows that all Kom tails curl in a protective or guarding action. There is a photo of a Kom on her page who is in a protective state in its kennel so yes its tail is curled. This is NOT a fault and only natural to the breed that the tail hangs straight in its natural state and curls when on guard. This is a great farm and I believe that for these large breeds you do need to have a farm so the pups have space to run and roam and learn their breeds traits like to herd sheep and staying true to their breed for each breed's intended purpose in life. She raises these pups for each breed's PURPOSE not for showing dogs and carting it around the state/country for dog shows. Shows are not for dogs or their life purpose. Shows are for people. They are still fun to watch and see and I respect those who show, don't get me wrong, but they are more for the human than the dog. After all, without the show dogs we would not have breeds as clean and pure and most breeds would fall apart and become mutts. So thanks to all the ethical breeders and champion show dogs for keeping your breed in line and healthy :)

Feathers and Fleece Farm is a good place with good dogs!
Then why couldn't I find their OFA records? Why didn't they respond to my emails about it? That's a big part of why I did not choose them, along with the advice from the lovely people here on the forum.

No proof of OFA = no purchase.
puccini wrote:
This person also said that one of Jennifer's Komondor's has a curled tail and that is a fault. One who knows about Komondors knows that all Kom tails curl in a protective or guarding action.There is a photo of a Kom on her page who is in a protective state in its kennel so yes its tail is curled. This is NOT a fault and only natural to the breed that the tail hangs straight in its natural state and curls when on guard.
Not according to official breed standard: http://www.akc.org/breeds/komondor/breed_standard.cfm

puccini wrote:
After all, without the show dogs we would not have breeds as clean and pure and most breeds would fall apart and become mutts. So thanks to all the ethical breeders and champion show dogs for keeping your breed in line and healthy :) Feathers and Fleece Farm is a good place with good dogs!

So if they are so great, why are they breeding mutts? :lmt: (your description, not mine)
Maggie: Are you jealous breeder or just hateful?

Have you in person seen the Koms on the farm? A pet or farm dog is what I was talking about and I think you should judge not before you judge oneself.

Feathers and Fleece is awesome! You should let someone who wants to make a nice compliment be just that. The snide, underhanded and suppressive comments are not necessary or respectable. I am a Feathers and Fleece client who is happy and proud.
Maggie is neither a jealous breeder or hateful. What she is, is a respectable member of this forum who has gained this respect by imparting her wisdom, knowledge and experience from her years of dealing with this breed and the people who love them. What she is not, is someone who seemingly jumps head first into a forum without a proper intro post with the sole intention of talking up a breeder whose history speaks for itself.

If you want respect from this crowd, as with any forum worth posting to, you must earn it by participating and contributing over time. Respect is very rarely and overnight achievement.

Vance
All I did was right a nice post. You people are vicious! Jealous! And can't wait to attack something good! Anyone who knows Feathers and Fleece Farm knows that you do not know what you are talking about! This forum sucks and is full of hate!

BYE
Well, glad that's over.

Sadly though, people like that will return as they will insist on getting the last word in. Wait and watch.

Vance
Its not over until the fat lady sings :). Omg a farm what produces not livestock or grain but puppies. Looks very clean & good website so you think there is more to this. Its just wrong to produce dogs like this also it don't tell you how many litters each bitch has had.
snazzierella wrote:
Then why couldn't I find their OFA records? Why didn't they respond to my emails about it? That's a big part of why I did not choose them, along with the advice from the lovely people here on the forum.

No proof of OFA = no purchase.


I am not disputing anything just pointing out that this question was never answered. You can find these records online for most dogs right? I had done lots of searches along with my breeder quest last year and I learned most breeders breeding dogs are listed on registries etc. if their website is saying the dogs are certified it should be listed somewhere :?
bruuruu wrote:
snazzierella wrote:
Then why couldn't I find their OFA records? Why didn't they respond to my emails about it? That's a big part of why I did not choose them, along with the advice from the lovely people here on the forum.

No proof of OFA = no purchase.


I am not disputing anything just pointing out that this question was never answered. You can find these records online for most dogs right? I had done lots of searches along with my breeder quest last year and I learned most breeders breeding dogs are listed on registries etc. if their website is saying the dogs are certified it should be listed somewhere :?


Yes! As I mentioned in an article I wrote you can easily search any kennel name on the OFA, CERF, PennHip or OVC website by simply entering the kennel name. All of their dogs that were certified will appear. If they do not appear either the dog was not done or the owner chose to not have failing results published.

http://www.oesocc.com/choosingabreeder
I have experience with this farm and now that we have one of their dogs, (not an oes) I would agree... RUN DON'T WALK away. We will keep our dog til death but would not have interacted with this farm if we knew then what we know now. They claimed to work our pup with their livestock soon after birth to acclimate it to the work and after receiving our deposit, tells us she has gotten rid of her rock of sheep and chickens. A

Videos? Never saw one. Photos? Had to beg for them after the birth. Not cooperative with picking up our pup and only one set of shots were included. Or pup had no idea of what to do with grass... As if have never been on it. The site is full of inconsistencies. Not professional.

They sell huge dogs with LGD background to city, apartment dwellers. Makes no sense.
Ditto to the person above me. While the owner is very nice to talk to on the phone and seems very caring, I probably wouldn't buy from her again. The puppy I got is a joy. Beautiful and sweet and we love her to pieces. However we did get the dog to work and now that I know more about Livestock Guardian dogs and have talked to countless people that breed and own them, I am realizing that I overpaid for a dog that was not prepared to do the job. She is working out and we love her - lots of effort on our part but we could have had a pup that was better prepared for MUCH less than we paid.
She is very nice to talk to when you first talk to her but once I gave my deposit it went downhill. No communication. She said puppies would be born in July. I emailed her at the end of July and she said they were just going into heat. Waited with no communication, unanswered e-mails, nothing. She had promised to send pic's of the bitch and sire. Got nothing. In October she finally responds and says she does not have time to chat, send e-mails. Horrible customer service so we went elsewhere. Too many good breeders out there to use this one.
So glad to find this blog. Been reading feathers and fleece site all day...even sent email inquiring about a visit to meet thier OES. I was told " understand we are not a petting zoo"....apparently before I can travel nearly six hours from Chicago to their farm in IN to meet them and their dogs...I must first complete an application and pay a $200 non-refundable deposit. You think I'm traveling nearly six hours to play with and pet your dogs for the fun of it?!? I've been investing hours trying to find a reputable breeder....the search continues....
Hi guys,

I wanted to post to your topic. I understand it is an older post, however, we recently purchased a puppy from Feathers & Fleece. It was the Newfkom, and he is amazing. We loved the Newfie, but were worried about the drool and shedding. Our Newfkom Odin, is so kind and loving, he is exactly what we wanted. he is wonderful with the kids and has been a breeze to train and housebreak. A great dog!

With every puppy, it is important to do research. We researched for nearly a year before we adopted Odin. This is a great place to get a puppy from.

I will say, if you are looking for a "pure bred"' you should investigate a pure bred breeder and obtain information from sites such as this.

In closure, she is a super breeder of the designer dogs (which is great if this is what you are looking for), she runs a clean farm with well tempered dogs! I would recommend to anyone!

Renee
As someone who has had Bernard's, newfs and two pyrs and purchased them all from very knowledgable, reputable breeders, do not make a purchase from this kennel. Breeding a Newf with a Komondor is completely irresponsible. The Komondor is a livestock guardian who is strong-willed, stubborn and needs a strong alpha personality in control. They are more difficult to train then Pyrs and in the wrong hands, this could be devastating. These mixed breed, mutt dogs will end up either dead or in shelters because this breeder failed to emphasize how much Komondors need early and on going socialization and training. having a large breed dog is high maintenance, not only with regard to gromming, but in training. if you are not willing to put the time and effort into a livestock guardian, you should not own one. Newf's are rescue dogs and working dogs, but are not out in the fields or mountains protecting sheep, coats or cattle. All heavy coated dogs need serious and often expensive gromming. Our Newf had to be groomed every two months to keep her clean and unmatted, as did my pyrs. This breeder is making a lot of money from breeding mutts and convincing people these dogs are low maintenance in all respects. They are not. Go to a big dog show, talk to good breeders, interview them, research a breed and find a healthy dog with a temperment that you know. these hybrid dogs are unproven. They are definitely all cute, but what puppy isn't.

This answer is in response to a question regarding Feathers and Fleece Kennels in Indiana.
I'm reading these reviews and shaking my head ... we bought our beautiful Sheepadoodle from Jennifer at Feather's and Fleece, in July and he's wonderful. She was delightful to deal with; her facility is clean and well taken care of; our puppy is healthy and was well adjusted from the start; he was easy to house train, and we've had no problems at all.

Perhaps your OES concerns are valid in regard to registration and breeding, but this puppy who is a mix between the OES and Standard Poodle, is well behaved and his disposition is wonderful. We've had OES in the past; one was hyper and the other was a little on the aggressive side, so this one is pure pleasure for us.

I find it hard to imagine someone writing a review on a breeder if they haven't seen her facility or met her puppies.

Linda J. Kuhn
Consider yourself very lucky. Even irreputable breeders turn out decent puppies sometimes.
Just like really great breeders will occasionally have a problem, it happens. Just remember if
you only got your puppy in july you may not see any potential issues for a while and if and when
you need the breeder they may no longer be delightful.
Most of the time our issues with breeders revolve around multiple breeds, crosses, breeding dogs
who haven't been shown to conformation, untested breeding dogs, breeding poor hip score dogs...
(but then you have a cross, so not even purebred.) Again I don't know much about this particular
breeder but then we ARE comparing apples to oranges.

Shellie
snazzierella wrote:
Hi everyone! I'm looking at getting my first oes puppy, and after looking at a lot of websites, I found feathers and fleece farms in Indiana and I'm wondering if anyone has gotten a puppy from them and knows of they're any good or not. The stuff on their website looks good to me, but of course it's easy to write whatever you want on a website. (:
If anyone knows anything, that would be great, thanks.
We have the most beautiful SHEEPADOODLE! I wanted a OES. She looks like one but doesn't shed. Feathers and Fleece is awesome. Ellie flew into Austin, TX with huge feet and lots of wiggles! Delta airlines whom they ship thru was awesome too.

Our Ellie is 1 year old now and we are blessed. Thank you FEATHERS AND FLEECE FOR LOVING BIG DOGS!

SABRINA - TEXAS
Guest Sabrina -

Quote:
I wanted a OES. She looks like one but doesn't shed.

Did the folks at feathers n fleece tell you that your sheepiedoodle won't shed like an OES?

(I suspect this is yet another drive by posting and don't expect an answer)

Good luck with that sheepiedoodle anyway.
Wow, I'm glad I found this. I've been debating on purchasing a Komondor and came across Feathers and Fleece Farm (anyone else think this is an odd name for a dog farm?) and thought the website looked good. I was however thrown off by a few things, but this would be my first time buying a dog from a breeder instead of as a rescue, so the whole process is alien to me.

Overall the site seems impressive but I hesitated because the price on their dogs were so expensive. I know purebreds can be pricy but at their prices I felt like more research was essential. Second even not knowing much abut breeding I was surprised to find that they have several breeds. People who I've known to have bred dogs always had just one breed. They always said they were afraid of their dogs being polluted by another breed, but those were the days before designer mutts, which brings me to another issue I had. The designer mutt industry seems odd to me. To pay purebred prices for a mutt seems insane. However, please correct, me if I'm wrong but my understanding is that when mixing dogs, no matter who the parents are, the offspring will be unpredictable even in the same litter. So these Newfkoms can't be guaranteed to be allergen and drool free. And I got the impressions that the females were having 1-2 litters per year. That can't produce healthy pups in the long run.
The biggest red flag was that you have to pay a sizable deposit on pups that aren't even in the works yet, but you can't get that deposit back. The deposit expires within two years even if they don't produce what I am looking for. If they don't get a Komondor pup by then I can choose from any of the litters they have available. I don't want a Newfoundland and although I loved the Pyrenees I once had and think they are a great breed, I
found them to be more needy and craving more affection than what I am wanting to give at this time. A Pyrenees would not fulfill my purposes now and I would be out a good chunk of cash. Also before I commit to paying that sum I would want to see the parents for myself. They say on the website that you have to pay the deposit before seeing the site. Why? If you are confident in your dogs and the pups they produce why restrict visitors? Why make people pay a deposit to be placed on a wait list for dogs not even conceived yet? I understand being placed on a wait list, but if the wait is 1-2 years and they are in such high demand why the deposit before conception? It's not like you wouldn't be able to place them with another family if the buyer backed out, since you have such a long waiting list.

Now as far as all those defending F&F FARM, please stop acting as if you are not the breeder or a close friend of the breeder. It is very obvious that most if not all of those posts were written by the same person. For one thing using the word hateful and jealous in each post is a dead give away. Another thing it doesn't matter how clean or hospitable the breeders are if you are not selling what you are claiming you have. If you are truly breeding good litters then what anyone else here says won't matter because you will develop a reputation that transcends the internet.

Thanks for the heads up everyone.

Last question- would you be opposed to this farm if they were up front about what they can and can not offer? For example if they sold puppies and stated up front that they were not show quality and should not be bred, maybe with a spay/neuter clause? If they were just selling puppies for pets/work, but not papers (and of course for less $) would you still object?

Like some of the other posted mentioned they do seem to love their dogs and take good care of them.
What breeder looking to sell puppies is going to admit anything negative? :lmt: It's not how good salespeople work in any business.

I'd suggest going to the national breed club for Komondorok, The Komondor Club of America, and checking out their breeders: http://komondorclubofamerica.org/breeders-list/ Talk to them and ask the same questions you are asking here. Since few of us on this forum are Kom people, best to talk to those who are.

If I was buying a puppy the first thing I'd be concerned about would be health testing of the parents. And then temperament of that breeder's lines. Being "show quality" doesn't typically matter to a pet owner at first. When you know more about any breed of dog you can really appreciate a dog with great conformation and adherence to the breed's standard. Find a breeder you can work with and will be there once the sale is made. A puppy is a longtime commitment. It's worth the extra research and money it may take to find the right one but in the end it will be worth it.
Thanks for the information. I agree a puppy is a long term commitment and research should be done first. It's just not always easy to know where to get reliable information. Thanks again!
Also guest - you seemed a bit concerned about the high prices. I have no idea
what F & F prices are like, but I will say that buying a well bred OES isn't cheap. Into
four digits is common. However, this is because the cost is very high for testing and conformation
that the reputable breeders do. Breeding isn't and shouldn't be a money maker. Most of
our breeders will tell you they lose money but do it for the love of the breed.
That said - just because the price is high doesn't mean it is a good breeder or well bred dog!
You still have to do the homework.


Shellie
I bought my puppy 10 days ago and I have to say that Jennifer lied about the age of my puppy. Her first email states that puppies were born 10/19/14 and then said it was 10/09/14. the first email said that the puppies couldn't be picked up until after 12/19/14. then I got email to pick up puppy on 12/06/14. She was not convienent with pick dates. heres the kicker. My puppy immediately had diarrhea from day 1 and would pee every 5 mins. We took her to vet and she was positive for Giardia and coccidia and had a urinary tract infection. I called her to let her know about the tests and you would have thought I was blaming her personally. She immediately said it was not her farm and I had 3 emails in matter of 10 mins and tried to say she checked all her dogs within that time frame and not one dog had it. She was extremely rude and was asking that I bring the dog back. umm...sorry she is my dog and I would never return her to her puppy mill. I was very put off visiting the farm. The bitches have matted hair and not brushed. The dogs not currently feeding you can tell have had a lot of liters thereboobs nearly hung to floor. There were so many liters born or just born and you can tell they are only in this for profit. My dog probably never touch grass. she had no clue what to do. She wouldn't send me photo updates before I picked up my puppy either. I do love my dog and would never give her up, but I would never buy from her again. I am looking to buy a second puppy but won't go with her. I have a giant Schnoodle not oes but wanted to respond
Of course you love your new puppy. I am so sorry you had this negative
experience. That is unfortunately what we have been hearing about some
of the less reputable breeders, this one included.
I hope you have luck getting your new addition healthy and staying that way.

Good luck, and stick around! We have lots of info and help here for your
little one.

Shellie
I wish I had seen this before I purchased my puppy here. It was been a horrible experience to date. Jennifer is incredibly rude and unhelpful. She rarely sends any updates and won't answer questions. It's mind blowing. Unfortunately, I already bought the pup so I have no choice but to move forward from here. I just want to get my pup and move on.

BUT as a warning to others, DON"T BOTHER. Even if the pups were good, it's such a miserable experience to deal with her that it is not worth it.

BE WARNED!!!
Hi, my name is Heather and I just contacted Jennifer at Feathers and Fleece Farm to let her know our Sheepadoodle puppy which was purchased from her was diagnosed with a condition commonly seen in Yorkies, called: Lymphangiectasia is a pathologic dilation of lymph vessels.[1] When it occurs in the intestines of dogs, and more rarely humans, it causes a disease known as "intestinal lymphangiectasia."[1] This disease is characterized by lymphatic vessel dilation,[2] chronic diarrhea and loss of proteins such as serum albumin and globulin. It is considered to be a chronic form of protein-losing enteropathy. He suffered from digestive issues, didn't respond to meds and ultimately lost his life at 2 years old. My children are devastated, as am I. During the puppy stage he was outrageously assertive, not the best for a family with kids. We were already attached and decided to tough that out only to have to deal with the decline of his health. When I contacted her two days ago to let her know what had happened, she responded as though my situation were an isolated one. I hope his siblings will not be afflicted with this horrible (genetic) condition. We are heartbroken, and out thousands of dollars between money spent to purchase him and treat his condition, euthanize and cremate. She simple said sorry for your loss and none of my other dogs have this issue. I am disgusted that she didn't offer compensation of any kind, and no she doesn't communicate very well, so I didn't expect much.
I'm sorry to hear of this devastating diagnosis and loss. I hope in the few years you had him, he brought you love even with is aggressive behavior.
Thank you to the person who sent me condolences, yes he was overtly assertive not necessarily aggressive and he brought so much love into our family. I just want Feather's and Fleece to acknowledge the disease and take this into consideration for future litters, which by the looks of things posted by others, she shouldn't be having anymore whatsoever. Shame on her for not caring about ethics and shame on me for not having done my research (in terms of breeder reputation). This disease could likely appear in Sheepadoodles bred by others, so it is worth looking into. I am just appalled by her unprofessionalism and lack of respect for this particular case. Appalled. -Heather
Hi Heather,

I am so horribly sorry for your loss! It is tragic and devastating, I am sure.

I just purchased a sheepadoodle from her, and I want to ensure the pup remains healthy. From your experience, is there anything I can do or look into ahead of time to prevent this? Who were the parents and what causes this? Also, what sort of behavior did you experience leading up to it?

It is so horribly horribly horribly sad. My heart goes out to you for your loss. I can only imagine how devastating it is for you and your family.
I a very sorry for those of you who have had terrible experiences at Feathers and Fleece Farm. I too had a horrible horrible experience. A beautiful website that is a cover for a puppy mill. She should be put out of business for many reasons. Yes, run do not walk away from this breeder. Be very careful if you think you are too smart to get involved with a charismatic con artist. If you are convinced the rest of us are wrong be sure you get your puppy off their farm as early and fast as you can.
Anyone reading this be aware, I was at a dog show in Las Vegas the last Sunday in March (2015) when I over heard two ladies
laughing and bragging about bashing this farm on a forum. I do not know this farm but if the farm would wake up and stop turning the other cheek they could stop this. This type of language is bad for all breeders. If your a breeder taking part in this I urge you to stop, they could be you they turn on next.
I found this forum and am so saddened reading all these posts. I also got pups from Feather and Fleece. I was not sent puppies from the litter that I was expecting. The puppies she sent to me were a few weeks older and from different parents. Her communication was horrible. My puppies also had Giardia as someone listed above posted. My Vet questioned where I had gotten them and when I said that they came form a breeder in Indiana she suggested that they may be puppy mill dogs. I mentioned this to Jennifer in an e-mail and she flipped on me. She told me that they got Giardia from my farm, not hers and became very defensive and hostile.

I did not visit her farm and it is really my fault for trusting her and not doing more research. Before she had my money she was extremely friendly on the phone and I really believed that she was a nice lady who cared about her dogs. Looking back, the quantity of puppies that she turns out should have been the first clue. I would definitely not recommend this breeder and I would never purchase another dog from her.
I have read every word of this thread. I still decided after reading all of the messages in this thread to go ahead and place deposit with this farm for my new puppy. This past weekend I had a new client visit at this farm. Boy was I ever imprest. It became evident that this thread has one purpose and that is to shut down all of the work that this incredible farm has put into hybrid breathe. The staff at this farm was so knowledgeable. The veterinarian care over and above anything I have ever seen. The facility is amazing! It is so beautiful there I could not believe my eyes. Flowers shiny floors beautiful dog beautiful puppies. I am so glad that I did not listen to anything on this thread. I just wanted to add anyone that reads this thread must know it is full of jealous breeders. There is no farm no breeder that could possibly compete with the work these ladies have put in to their facility and into their dogs and puppies .
The walls of this facility are covered with beautiful photos of the puppies that they have produced and the certificates that their show dogs have earned. It was so obvious that I had made the right choice after walking onto this property.
If you are buying a puppy and you're unsure visit this farm! They are the most qualified facility I have ever stepped foot on too. You will notice immediately that this farm is the only place to buy a puppy. No wonder you see these puppies in commercials no wonder you see these puppies all over the Internet these people are amazing I cannot say enough good things.
Just so that folks are aware, the posts from both "Tonya S" and "LeeAnn M" came from the same IP network.

Does/would anyone really believe that some random person overheard a couple of ladies "laughing and bragging about bashing this farm on a forum" then spend the time a few weeks later to search out this anonymous forum and make a post defending a farm that she has no connection to?

Listen, whoever you are.... Buck up. Try to be honest and defend yourself honestly or just stay away. Or better yet, do a better job as a breeder and perhaps the complaints would stop.
I think it's quite obvious to most people that is what's going on Ron. Disgusting.
I'm certain I'm not using this page correctly since I just happened upon it when searching F&F reviews, so sorry for stepping in.
But this string freaked me out quite a bit since I currently have a deposit with F&F for an upcoming litter. I will happily walk away from my deposit rather than support a puppy mill but I admittedly don't know what to look for. I'm not looking for a pure bred OES or any purebred. I like the idea of a mix.
Does anyone know how I can research the quality of a breeder of a mixed breed?
This whole thing just makes me so sad because my family has really been excited to add a new puppy to our family and now I'm not sure how to best do that.
It's all about research really and that can take awhile before you feel confident. Even talk to other families who have bought a puppy from the breeder. I know of friends who have bought "doodles" and they are all happy and healthy, one being almost 10 yrs. Not sure how this website really works, but you can email me or PM me and I will give you some names.

Regarding F&F, I was suckered into their beautiful website as well. I contacted them and she called me right back. She left me a msg because I couldn't answer at the time. Long story short, once I tried to get back in touch it was a nightmare! She (or Tonya S) emailed me saying that construction on their property broke a phone line and we could only communicate through email. Really? It's 2015! You only have landline phones? I emailed her back at first, giving her the benefit of the doubt. I never heard back...ever! Then, once I sent an email complaining about the lack of communication, I got a quick response back. The grammar was the exact same as the defensive posts above in this thread. Either that person is 12, or doesn't not English very well. This place gave me the creeps. It really should be investigated.
Oh man. I wish I would have known. I'm currently entangled with this breeder. I had warning signs, but I was listening to my heart and not my head. They gave me the same "phones aren't working because of a storm" story. They took my deposit, then didn't hear anything from them. I finally emailed, they said they would let me know when they had news. My fall 2015 puppy turned into winter, they moved me to a new litter because my female wasn't able to get pregnant after months of trying? Then the litter they switched me to's due date came and went with no email, so I emailed and they said that unfortunately the mother took no interest in the pups and they all died despite being bottle fed. Then they moved me again, then one more time. Paid in full for my puppy plus POL Fee. The first pics of newborns were mixed up, but they were young so I didn't fret. They only send one picture of each puppy every two weeks. The next pics were different from the first set. Two weeks later the next pics were different again. So I emailed and asked why the dogs weren't the same? They said the umbilical cord looks like a penis(at 30+ days old and then 45+ days old) so the high school girls doing the pics mixed up the boys and girls. Huh? Now I've had several red flags, so I ask if one of the workers pictured on the website can take a picture with a puppy today and email it to me. I read that breeders should be more than willing to do this. 5 minutes later Jennifer called me telling me I was accusing them of something and high school kids make mistakes, I don't trust her so she doesn't want to do business with me, she can't be at every photo shoot, puppies wiggle at this age and it is difficult to get a picture, etc. She was defensive and argumentative. I told her I only get one pic every two weeks, it's difficult to pick a puppy when they are different each time, and I wasn't accusing them of anything, just trying to protect our investment in a future family member. She said our relationship was now soured and she would refund my deposit, POL fee, and money. I asked for an email from her stating the conversation we just had for my records, but suddenly (after speaking this entire time with no problems), she said "I can't hear you, you're breaking up". I asked 2 more times for an email with her decision to terminate the relationship and refund me, to which I got "You're breaking up. I can't hear you". She replaced my paypal money today with a note that said "refunded in full", but I paid an additional $1200 via credit card that has yet to be refunded. I'm hoping there won't be a fight for the bulk of my money. I don't know how I'm going to move forward, but if this helps someone else then at least some good came of it. We, as a family, are devastated. We have been waiting for so long while this breeder had our deposit, screwed us around, and didn't communicate AT ALL until prompted by my emails. Our pup was due to COME HOME in 3 weeks and she pulled the rug from under us, all because we asked for verification after a series of strange events. You would think she would gladly oblige and apologize for causing concern. This is the first time we have purchased a pure bred dog from a breeder and now I'm dogless and skittish. And hopeful we can recover my remaining $1200 without an attorney! My admittedly amateur and sad advice is as stated several times above, RUN from feathers and fleece!!
Have you contacted your VISA company to protest the charge? The provider of my VISA (Bank of Am) has always been extraordinary helpful when vendors don't deliver on their promises. Give it a shot! :o :wag:
I called Feathers and Fleece farm today to talk about the possibility of getting a Sheepadoodle puppy. I explained that I understood the first step was to be placed on a waitlist for a fairly large nonrefundable deposit. I explained I didn't feel comfortable doing this without meeting the puppy or parents first. The woman very arrogantly told me that that was the way their farm did it and I could look elsewhere for another breeder who does it differently. I asked if she could recommend another breeder and she told be to go on the internet and find a breeder that might interest me. This conversation was appalling to me and leads me to believe that Feathers and Fleece Farm is more in it for the money than for the puppies and future owners. This small interaction I had would lead me far away from dealing with this farm. I have been a dog owner for 25 years and have never had this kind of interaction with a breeder. I urge all potential puppy owners to sway away from Feathers and Fleece.
I spent almost a year of my life researching breeders, and I decided on F&F because I was impressed with everything I saw and read. It has been a NIGHTMARE ever since. Once your litter arrives, they DO NOT communicate with their families at all, and the excuse is always the same: "We are busy with our moms and puppies". Well, if you do not have the time to answer questions thoughtfully for people who have invested their hearts and money, then perhaps you are breeding too many puppies. Breed fewer dogs or hire more help. This is a HUGE investment for families. This has not been a good experience so far, and I would not recommend this breeder. They are defensive, rude, and in some cases...downright mean. Some of the posts on this thread may not be legitimate. I can't speak to those, but there are obviously posts that are valid. Please consider those too. I'm not comfortable with calling them a 'puppy mill', but their business model is lacking. They might even be good at loving their puppies, but they are not good at customer service. And the sad thing is that customers (like me) have ended up towing the line, afraid that they will refuse to give me the puppy I've been waiting for. It feels like a power struggle. The owner has been very childish in some of our correspondence. Other breeders have sheepadoodle puppies. They are also starting to appear on Petfinder more often because they're becoming popular (and are therefore showing up in shelters and rescues more often). I wish I could get out of this mess, but I'm in limbo. Still waiting. Once I get my puppy in a couple of months, I will share the details of my experience. Until then, I'm just too afraid (and doesn't THAT tell you something too?).
I spent almost a year of my life researching breeders, and I decided on F&F because I was impressed with everything I saw and read. It has been a NIGHTMARE ever since. Once your litter arrives, they DO NOT communicate with their families at all, and the excuse is always the same: "We are busy with our moms and puppies". Well, if you do not have the time to answer questions thoughtfully for people who have invested their hearts and money, then perhaps you are breeding too many puppies. Breed fewer dogs or hire more help. This is a HUGE investment for families. This has not been a good experience so far, and I would not recommend this breeder. They are defensive, rude, and in some cases...downright mean. Some of the posts on this thread may not be legitimate. I can't speak to those, but there are obviously posts that are valid. Please consider those too. I'm not comfortable with calling them a 'puppy mill', but their business model is lacking. They might even be good at loving their puppies, but they are not good at customer service. And the sad thing is that customers (like me) have ended up towing the line, afraid that they will refuse to give me the puppy I've been waiting for. It feels like a power struggle. The owner has been very childish in some of our correspondence. Other breeders have sheepadoodle puppies. They are also starting to appear on Petfinder more often because they're becoming popular (and are therefore showing up in shelters and rescues more often). I wish I could get out of this mess, but I'm in limbo. Still waiting. Once I get my puppy in a couple of months, I will share the details of my experience. Until then, I'm just too afraid (and doesn't THAT tell you something too?).
Among the baffling things this last guest has written, and there were
several, what are you afraid of? Losing a bit of money? That is the worst
reason I can think of to stick to this "breeder". I think you need to go back
and start your research again honestly. F&F IS a puppy mill. I am not sure
what criteria you think one needs to meet, but as far as I can tell this one
is sorta a no brainer. They are in it entirely for the money. ENTIRELY!
Someone who breeds dogs should always always always be doing it for the
betterment of the breed, the love of the breed, etc. Not for the money. Not
breeding so many litters a year that they can't keep up with the puppy owners!
Where in all your "searching" did you check the breed club page? Do you have
any idea of the health, or lack of, of the parents? How could you? Their word?
Do you really trust their word at this point? How healthy do you think your
puppy is really likely to be? And you are concerned about losing the money you gave them? You may be about to have bigger issues than dollars. How about vet bills? One single problem with a poorly bred pup can send you to the vet with a bill that will make your deposit look like chump change. But
whatever. Your dollars may even be long gone. I really hope this all turns out
much better than I expect it will. Good luck
Just my opinion - on just a few things Guest mentioned.
(and p.s. this rant would have gotten me kicked off the FB group in a hot damn second!)
Shellie
Shellie wrote:
Good luck
Just my opinion - on just a few things Guest mentioned.
(and p.s. this rant would have gotten me kicked off the FB group in a hot damn second!)
Shellie

The identical post a week later was odd too.

Well.... maybe in 10 more years when the next best facebook thingy comes along and Facebook dies we can win our vibrant community back. ;-)
Oh Ron - I adore you and this forum. You know I will still be here waiting
when it does come back. (and the good stuff always makes a return 8) )

That post just really rubbed me the wrong way. Maybe I am just being
extra sensative lately. If I am, it's facebooks' fault!


Shellie
:hearts:
These reviews are very negative. I looked on Angies List and the BBB and why aren't these reported there? I have a deposit at Feathers for a mini sheepadoodle and am thinking of backing out. I was on a year wait list and my puppy was due to be born in Feb. I heard nothing so emailed them in March and they informed me the female didn't get pregnant so will try again soon. I was informed another female is in heat and haven't heard any more and that was over a month ago. Something is just not right.
To Shellie, the very caustic woman who responded to my reply...I am sorry I wasnt educated enough in my approach to choosing a breeder. I tried very hard to do my research, but this was new for me. I'm not sure why you would attack me for responding with my experience. I was trying to help people avoid the mistakes I did, which I thought was the point of this forum.

Also, I apologise for posting my response twice--a week apart. I didn't see my original response, so I posted it again. My fault. It doesn't mean my post wasn't legitimate.

I won't be returning to this page. I was trying to help people.
Guest wrote:
I won't be returning to this page. I was trying to help people.


Sorry you feel that way but you didn't see fit to actually join the community, you've been here twice in 4 months and dropped exactly 1 identical post twice, didn't stick around to see responses and didn't folow though on your promise to share the details...what kind of member would you have been?

I'm sorry you have had troubles with your purchase and feel that this community -which was set up to help people- isn't for you and didn't serve your vendetta well.

Good luck with your puppy- if you ever got one.
So sorry "guest" that you perceived my post as "caustic".
I think if you reread it without the attitude you applied to
my words it will look quite different. I just simply do not
understand how you could have the experience you had and
even at the time of your post had not resolved or walked away
from the situation. Even after reading other peoples posts and experiences you had yet to walk away from a bad breeder.
You clearly stated that you were afraid,
and the signs were all there - you even pointed some out.
You are a victim of this breeder because you have allowed it.
I wasn't being snarky when I said I hope this situation has turned out well for you. I hope you got everything you
wanted and that you have a wonderful new puppy that you love. This forum is the best thing I can think of for new owners. Not everyone is a bitch like me! And I don't post that often, I am certain you can just ignore me. Our members have loads of great information and are a very helpful group of people. Don't leave on my account!


Good luck and I hope you find what you are looking for!

Shellie
So, how did it all turn out.? Is there a wonderful bouncy pup in a happy new home or not? Here in England it is so hard to find a breeder who is breeding sheepies. You can get labs, jack Russels and German sheperds but not old English sheepdogs!! they are so precsious. xxxx
I would not recommend this place to anybody. I was on a waiting list for a whole year and a half and still don't have a puppy. My puppy was supposed to be born in February. February came and went so I emailed them in March and they said there was no pregnancy. I asked them why I wasn't notified and they said they just took the ultrasound an hour ago and are now notifying me. This doesn't even make sense. They put me on the next waiting list and when the puppies were finally born there were only three in the litter which I find hard to believe. They wanted me to send payment in full before I even knew which puppy I was getting. I opted
out of the litter and any future litters that they had and lost my deposit. They didn't care.
Guess I have been lucky with all our sheepies- I didn't do any research, just went and visited any place that were breeding oes. They are so few and far between. Luckily they have always been a "nice family home", friendly and welcoming, letting me and hubby "visit" as many times as we needed to make up our minds-holding on to all the pups till we were sure. I had no trouble deciding- they have all "chosen" me by stting on my feet and often going to sleep, content-that's the one I want please!!!!!xx
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