Occupy wall Street
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Ashley wrote: Okay, so I live in NY, about 50 miles east of the City...I'm not quite understanding the goal of Occupy wall Street? what is it that will happen to satisfy these protestors and get them off the street? I'm not understanding Hey, you're not the only one who doesn't get it. Obviously nothing is going to satisfy them but I sure have some good ideas for getting them off the street.  I love the suits with signs saying "Get A Job!". Unfortunately the mob is keeping them from actually getting to theirs. |
| While protests can not write laws, they help change the conversation to bring up what really is the problem. Until OWS everyone was talking about how society was in trouble and facing more depression because there were no jobs. The protests allowed conversation to the bring the true problems to the forefront, financial inequity. Those that make money make to much of it. They are constantly getting increases while the rest of us, the 99% do not. They also do not use that money to invest back into society. That is just touching the surface. What they want is for things to change. They will get off the streets when our government starts to do something different because what we are currently doing obviously doesn't work. i.e.: Bailing these companies out with tax payers money just allowed them to get bigger bonuses. So far the only thing the governments have done is 1. recognize there is an inequality and 2. monitor these movements. This is a really helpful video from CNN: http://www.cnn.com/video/?/video/us/2011/11/17/explain-it-to-me-occupy-movement.cnn#/video/us/2011/11/17/explain-it-to-me-occupy-movement.cnn |
| Every generation needs a bit of civil unrest. Some of this is the communist party trying to regain some support.......it's worked so well in Russia, China and Viet Nam........that's why they are moving quickly towards capitalism. Anothers is frustration on no jobs or low paying jobs while CEOs get multi millions, government loans and then go bankrupt. Capitalism isn't perfect......and even less so when government gets involved in bail outs. As an Econ prof in college said, "the more government gets involved, the poorer capitalism works." Failing businesses should fail and the CEOs should be penalized not rewarded. Also the whole investing thing (IMHO) has gotten screwy with individuals loosing control of their investments, instead going with pension plans, mutual funds, etc. It's very hard to get thieving CEOs out now as they are so insulated with the mutual fund managers, etc. I fully understand OW people's concerns, I'd be concerned about paying off college loans when I see no jobs out there, rather exported other countries. And the buinesses who have done this continue to rake in higher profits which doesn't trickle down, it can't, there are no local workers. I just don't want to see this as a referendum on moving more socialist (think Greece) or worse, communism. My fam (brothers and nephews) are in some way active in foreign commerce......years ago one brother was at a conference in Viet Nam when the country first opened up after the war. At that time my brother worked for a US Congresswoman and for some reason an old Vietnamese gentleman who was part of the Paris Peacetalks...so a government official... took a liking to my brother. After a few glasses of whatever the local hooch is there the old man said, "We were very wrong for going with communism. We will go nowhere with it. We must find a way to incorporate more and more capitalism into our country but we can't let the people know this for many years....otherwise they'll kill us."  |
| Have you read the Citi mortgage thread in the general discussion forum? That's one of the problems: banks and businesses using their wealth to buy influence so that laws are always in their favor. Deregulation of banks began under Clinton, with the repeal of the Glass Steagall act, which had been adopted as part of the New Deal in the 30's. Without Glass-Steagall, banks could merge into ever larger institutions which became 'too big to fail.' And because they were so big, they pretty much were able to mistreat their customers as much as they cared to. I don't think there was anything wrong with bailing out the banking industry or the auto industry, if for no other reason than the ruin that would have surely followed if those areas of the economy collapsed totally. What is wrong is that more stringent conditions were not put into place, allowing huge banking institutions to continue to extort fees from 'customers,' play fast and loose with borrower's payments, imposing unfair and unreasonably huge fees and interest for 'missed' payments that were not missed at all. I've read many horror stories of people who had never been late with a mortgage payment finding themselves in foreclosure because they APPLIED for a mortgage modification. Say what? My husband and I have refinanced our mortgage twice, because interest rates have fallen so. And the bank (local) was happy to do it because otherwise we could go to another bank and get better terms. What the banking industry and others have been doing is not just wrong, but is obscenely wrong. And dangerous. And that's just part of it. |
| To boil it down, the protesters are tired of the government catering to big business and the wealthy. They're tired of the government & politicians being bought & paid for by special interests. They're tired of the government helping big business while letting the little guy twist in the wind. They're tired of big business taking hand-outs from the government (which is OUR money) and then have them turn around and lay people off and send our jobs overseas. |
How many of these people "occupying" actually know what they are protesting? There are a lot more constructive ways of expressing displeasure than blocking people who choose to work, destroying public and private property and costing taxpayers money for the additional police presence. |
Maggie McGee IV wrote: How many of these people "occupying" actually know what they are protesting? There are a lot more constructive ways of expressing displeasure than blocking people who choose to work, destroying public and private property and costing taxpayers money for the additional police presence. Not to stir the pot...but what are the "more constructive" ways of expressing displeasure? What other peaceful ways could get as much press and get as many people talking? I mean, OWS even has a Sheepie forum talking about them   As far as everyone knowing what they are protesting....as I understand it, the whole point is to not have 1, 2 or 3 goals/talking points. Everyone is there for their own reasons, and as a group are demanding change but not claiming to have THE answer or THE solution. |
Amanda P wrote: Maggie McGee IV wrote: How many of these people "occupying" actually know what they are protesting? There are a lot more constructive ways of expressing displeasure than blocking people who choose to work, destroying public and private property and costing taxpayers money for the additional police presence. Not to stir the pot...but what are the "more constructive" ways of expressing displeasure? What other peaceful ways could get as much press and get as many people talking? I mean, OWS even has a Sheepie forum talking about them As far as everyone knowing what they are protesting....as I understand it, the whole point is to not have 1, 2 or 3 goals/talking points. Everyone is there for their own reasons, and as a group are demanding change but not claiming to have THE answer or THE solution. By golly, forums ARE peaceful, aren't they? And they don't spread nasty diseases, destroy property and scare school kids just trying to cross city streets. Great idea! |
| You are right: no one has ever contracted a nasty virus that caused damage and inconvenience while on the internet. Links, please, to reputable news sources re: nasty diseases and OWS. |
| Oh I get what they are protesting against being big banks and bail outs. But what I don't get is how they nexpect it to change overnight? How trying to shut down the NY Stock Exchange will help their cause? The NY Stock exchange employes thousands of people every day. Close them down, more unemployed on the list of unemployment. Never mind what happens to daily economics when the stock market goes down a few points - imagine shutting it down for a few days! Also, big banks and big corporations also emply thousands and thousands of people trying to make a living and pay their bills just like everyone else. Blocking them from getting to their jobs isn't helping their cause either... I get what I think their mind set is but I don't get how all these people have all day long to sleep in a park. Their time should be better spent looking for work. Okay, maybe not a job in their field of choice for now, but there are jobs to be had...Maybe not high paying jobs, but if you want to work, its out there - especially now at holiday season... I am not a big believer in bail outs - for anyone. Not for corporations and not for people who run up their charge cards to excess and then bail out of paying them.. |
| My son is one of the thousands and thousands who are employed by a major bank. What he is expected to do at his job makes him physically ill. Why is he in this job? Because it allows him to also finish his education, unless they lie to him about the hours he is expected to work, which happened immediately upon his hiring. Still, in this economy, a job is a job is a job. And yes, he's looking hard for something else. |
tgir wrote: You are right: no one has ever contracted a nasty virus that caused damage and inconvenience while on the internet. Links, please, to reputable news sources re: nasty diseases and OWS. LOL For some reason my brain saw this as "Links, please, to reputable news sources re: nasty diseases and OES." LOL I got worried. I thought it meant oes.org. Then I figured it all out, blushed, breathed a huge sigh of relief and went back to my cave. |
| Anyone mid if I move this to "Food for Thought"....? |
Thanks for adding this new icon at my request Ron. It's going to be useful here!  |
Ron wrote: Anyone mid if I move this to "Food for Thought"....? Sounds like a good idea, if it's ok with Ashley. Sorry to give you a fright re: OWS vs OES. I think OES are just addictive, not actually contagious. |
No problem to me where its moved to. I originally out it under Members only so not to start a political war with strangers!  |
| I got this in an email form a co-worker and I might get railed for it here but I'm sure some will see it for what it is. You Might Be A Wall Street Occupier, If: 1. You moved to a tent in Zucotti Park because you always wanted a nicer place to live. 2. You quit your “job” to attend the protests, but your mother continues your allowance and now does the dishes herself. 3. You are confused that you can’t find the Wal-Mart on Wall Street. 4. You are enraged that the taxpayers had to bail out Wall Street even though you’ve never paid taxes or know anyone who has. 5. You hate capitalism but expect a capitalist to provide you a good paying job with great benefits. 6. You think Socialism has something to do with Facebook, and Capitalism has to do with Washington, DC. 7. You demand a job, forgetting that you were fired for not doing the one you had. 8. You despise the rich even though they pay your share of taxes. 9. You’re a little behind in your rent because your drug dealer insisted on cash. 10. You are very clear in your protest objectives: a. “Screw the USA” b. “Save the ______ (fill in the blanks – whales, spotted owls, sturgeon)” c. “Self-realization is the first step toward self-actualization” d. “Down with … uh… everything!” 11. You think 99 weeks of unemployment is the least the government should give you for the 3 months you put in at McDonalds. 12. You drove a Toyota to the protest, you’re plugged in to a Sony Walkman, talk over a Samsung phone, and play a Yamaha keyboard in a punk band, but you are incensed over jobs being outsourced to other countries. 13. You demand your rights, but can’t quite recall where they are enumerated. 14. You believe you have a right to every penny earned, but the rich do not, and you base your claim on equality. 15. You believe a man is greedy if he worked his way up to CEO on 16-hour days, runs a company employing thousands, and made $10 million last year, but is not greedy if he made $50 million last year for making two motion pictures or shooting a ball through a hoop. 16. You are convinced the “system” is holding you back from gaining wealth, status, and position. Dropping out of high school, dulling your mind with crack and MJ, a few arrests on your record and stealing from your employer had nothing to do with it. 17. You left behind trash, feces, urine-soaked sod, discarded clothing, and used condoms after your “Save the Environment” protest. 18. You know you’re not a Socialist because you stick pretty much to yourself at parties. 19. You want to improve the environment and you have the tattoos and piercings to prove it. 20. You don’t pay taxes, but somehow that’s more than your “fair share”. 21. You hate the rich, but hope you win the lottery. 22. You haven't bathed in over a month, but demand to be taken seriously. 23. From the looks of it, "greening" the environment means starting with your teeth. 24. You know your cause is just - because Nancy Pelosi admires you. Life is too short to be that serious all the time. Vance |
Good one, Vance!  |
| Oh I am forwarding that to all my evil, tax paying friends! |
| I say more power to them. |
| From another thread, but apropos, I think: http://www.theonion.com/articles/layoff ... ght,26250/ |
| LOVE IT Vance!!! |
ok, I totally stole that for my socialism, oops I mean Facebook, page  |
| As a side note, and I'm only tossing this out there because this line made me think of it (and I realize these are Japanese brands, not the Chinese stats that I'm about to compare it to): "You drove a Toyota to the protest, you’re plugged in to a Sony Walkman, talk over a Samsung phone, and play a Yamaha keyboard in a punk band, but you are incensed over jobs being outsourced to other countries." I read a very interesting article about misconceptions about how much we spend on Chinese and American goods. It cited some very interesting statistics. The highlights about Chinese goods: Misconception: Most of what Americans spend their money on is made in China. Fact: Just 2.7% of personal consumption expenditures go to Chinese-made goods and services. 88.5% of U.S. consumer spending is on American-made goods and services. Misconception: We owe most of our debt to China. Fact: China owns 7.8% of U.S. government debt outstanding. It's worth a read for the explanations: http://www.fool.com/investing/general/2 ... o-die.aspx It turns out we need to fear robots more than the Chinese. |
| Those stats are a bit misleading; why would they include "services" in the personal consumption. Unless we're in China on vacation, the VAST majority of services would be US based, and mostly locally. Food is included in personal spending, as is mortgage payments and other. I'd imagine that the real question is on the consumer products and their components, and perhaps construction materials. That would then need to be balanced by what we are selling to them. Total annual personal income in the US is probably around $14 trillion. The annual US trade deficit with China is about $300 Billion with us buying about $400 Billion and them buying about $100 Billion. Give or take. Not very balanced. But that includes more than "personal income" purchases, it's all sources. If we have about 300 Million US Citizens and we're buying $400 Billion in Chinese goods, it means the "average man woman and child" is buying $1,333 of Chinese goods per person, per year, throughout the economy. We sell them about $333 per year per person, for a net trade deficit of $1,000 per person, per year. That's a whole lot. EDIT: Source for trade and deficit numbers: http://www.census.gov/foreign-trade/balance/c5700.html Yes, the Chinese only hold about $1 Trillion of the US debt. I recall reading somewhere that not only were they going to stop buying US debt but they have actually reduced their holdings of US debt substantially. I'd have to go look it up. However, most US debt is held domestically, with our own mutual funds and other investments holding US debt. OF the external debt owed to the rest of the world, a Trillion Dollars would represent about a third, if I recall correctly. None of that matters, because the Federal Reserve has been "buying" almost all US Treasury issued debt for some time. I put "buying" in quotes because they are purchasing the debt with money they are creating out of thin air, forcing dollars into the economy and very likely preventing devastating deflation now, but also probably causing huge inflation somewhere down the road. OK, how many Occupy Wall Streeters do you think know ANY of this, and how many do you think have a basic, sound, fundamental knowledge of how our economy functions? How many understand that "the banks" are being forced to merge and become bigger and bigger by the same government that is passing legislation ostensibly to prevent banks from being "to big to fail"? How many understand that Bank of America was FORCED to buy Merrill Lynch even though they tried to back out of the deal, causing BoA to lose more than $60 Billion dollars, saving the taxpayers from footing that bill through various insurance programs (and helping to save the economy)? How many know that they weren't GIVEN any money in the bailouts, they were loaned money and had to (and have) repaid it at 9% interest? How many know that the US Government through FNMA (Fannie Mae) and FHLMC (Freddie Mac) created the risky securities and pushed the policies that allowed (and sometimes required) the banks to make these risky investments and to originate risky loans? How many know that the banks purchased insurance from one of the world's largest insurers to cover their losses on these riskier assets? And how many know that the failure of that insurance company, AIG, was the cause of the whole catastrophic failure (but not the cause of all of the problems)? And how many understand that this insurance company is supposed to be regulated and governed so that this sort of thing wouldn't ever happen? By the Government. And how many understand that the bank examiners relied on the insurance regulators to ensure that the insurance company wouldn't fail when determining the health of the banks' balance sheets? How many understand that the secondary cause of the need for congressional/Treasury and FED intervention is a simple accounting rule called "Mark to Market" That was required, yes- by the government, that for the sake of transparency to investors, caused the banks to have to value these risky investments at near $0 on their balance sheets, causing them to be technically insolvent (bankrupt) temporarily while still having plenty of cash flow? (Temporarily because the securities weren't actually worth 0, the market for them had a disruption and nobody was buying them so they were technically temporarily worth 0). The law of unintended consequences... Just wondering. Not saying they're angels, just they are really getting a bum rap in a lot of this. |
| I'm still scared of robots no matter what. |
Vance it completely on the mark  I have yet to hear one coherent goal come out of the occupy movement. From the interviews I have heard there seems to be no specific, clear message or thought process from these people. They don't REALLY understand the issues and have no real ideas as to solve them since most of them don't appear to have been actually participating in the work force, paying taxes and working towards any real goals for themselves or society. |
sheepiegail wrote: I have yet to hear one coherent goal come out of the occupy movement. Ummmm....change? They are pretty adamant about it. From what I've read most of the protestors are not the ne'er-do-well slackers that Vance's "email forward list" suggests. If we don't forward that list to 10 people within 10 minutes of reading it will catastrophic things happen to us?  |
Quote: If we don't forward that list to 10 people within 10 minutes of reading it will catastrophic things happen to us?  I'm so glad I forwarded to my 10 friends as I don't have to worry about piles, going bald or other problems that might befall me. |
| Haha! Some of them are slackers. Maybe lots of them. Others are idealists of one sort or another. Most are anti big banks but other than government intervention of some sort designed to right whatever it is that is wrong, I'm not sure many care. I think many are just there to demand their rights and claim their power... And have the experience. I guess. Robots. Scare. Me. Too. |
| Has anyone seen the article about the woman protesting at Occupy wall Street who was offereed a BIG corporate job making 6 figures after being seen on TV? Ha ha...She got the job and now works for the very people she was protesting about! |
Ashley wrote: Has anyone seen the article about the woman protesting at Occupy wall Street who was offereed a BIG corporate job making 6 figures after being seen on TV? Ha ha...She got the job and now works for the very people she was protesting about! She was very convicted to stand by her principles---huh  |
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