Matting
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| Clyde's still mostly in puppy coat so we don't have a big mat problem but, one thing I do know: you should always brush before a bath. If there are any mats, getting them wet only makes them tighter and traps water which can cause all kinds of problems.
I'd try working most of the really bad ones out yourself before he goes to the groomer and if she really gives you a hard time, I'd suggest finding someone who's easier to work with. I don't think "shaving spots" should ever be a solution! |
| Okay...I think you have answered one of my main questions that I actually did not ask... Do you think that my groomer has a problem??? Can mats be gotten out--no matter how bad--if you have the proper tools to do it? You said shaving is never the answer. So...are you saying that if she would use the proper tools and take the time..she could get them out? I told her that I realized it would take time and I understood that. She continued to say basically "it could not be done." Now, don't get the impression that he looks really bad and is in terrible shape. He doesn't and he isn't. Gracious! He is part of our family. We would not let him get that way! So, what do you think about what the groomer is telling me? |
| No, no, I didn't mean he didn't! Actually, let me rephrase that. Shaving "spots" isn't the answer and I think that the groomer could've been more diplomatic about working with you. The only way I can see refusing to do the puppy cut is if he were so covered that she couldn't scissor trim him and it definitely doesn't sound like that! It sounds to me, and I could very well be wrong, that she didn't want to spend as much time as it was going to take to work some of the mats out. That doesn't make her a bad groomer (she may have been swamped, short of help, etc.) but it sounds like you were unhappy with the way it was handled and that's the bottom line.
I think you might be able to get some mats out yourself but I guess the bigger questions is, how many are there and what will Tux have to go through for it to happen? I would imagine a puppy cut would help because it might break them up a bit and make it easier to to work them out. Like I said, and I know everyone's gonna get me for this, but Clyde never gets them! A tangle here and there but easily brushed. My other girl (Briard/Beardie mix) gets them in weird places and I've spent considerable time picking and pulling so I wouldn't have to cut. She's very calm and sits patiently but I know she's uncomfortable-- and that's always what I worry about. |
| Hi Maggie Jane! If you look farther back in our grooming section, you'll find an awesome post by our resident groomeing guru, Carl Lindon, regarding taking care of mats! Have you read it yet? Maybe someone can find the link for us... anyways, once you've checked that out, I'd pm him if you have additional questions- Carl is AWESOME!!! when it somes to grooming issues!
If I remeber correctly, we also had a discussion on collars- I think that the general consensus is there is no collar out there that won't cause mats, if worn all the time. The best idea, if possible, was to only put on the collar for walks, or trips to the vet, etc. when it was actually needed. If I'm wrong on that -someone correct me, I think that's what we came up with though... Also- I think your groomer is a dud! She/he has no business arguing with you- if you request a puppy cut they should be happy to give you one! Part of their job is working with mats, so I'm not sure why they're giving you such guff... I'd start looking for a different groomer. If you have friends with oes or other long haired dogs, ask them where they go. Also call around and ask if anyone at the groomers has OES experience. I personally, would take him to the groomer before a kenneling (or after), so you don't have inexperienced staff trying to work with all that hair, then you don't have to worry about it. Good luck! Karen  |
| Ok lets analyze this, what shampoo, brush etc are you using, do you use a detangler. Yes, punt on the groomer, I would call around and find someone experienced with longhaired dogs hopefully OES. Of course when it comes to brushing that needs to be done 3 times per week or you will pay the price with mats. Well your going to have mats anyway but they are managable with regular brushing at least once per week. There is no harm in keeping the dog trimmed from 1/2 to 2 inches then you can go a week between brushing without much trouble. Heres the way I look at it if you are doing the grooming any length hair is OK, if you aren't, hair over 2 inches or so is going to be a problem or very expensive, and is unnecessary unless you are going to show them. |
| First off, how old is your dog? Sometimes when the blow their puppy coat
the matts get really out of hand. Second, I say ditch the groomer. If she is that hard to deal with she doesn't need you as a customer. As for the kennel baths, I would say skip them. I had a horrible experience with Tucker getting bathed while he was boarded. And he wasn't just matted he wasn't even clean. I think in some cases they just don't take the time our OES need. For the matts, try pulling them apart from the top down. Put your thumbs together so they touch from base to the ends with your nails facing you. Now hold the matt in this position and pull so you are pulling your thumbtips away from each other and making a V. Pull the matt apart as close to the skin as you can without pulling the fur. Do this in 1/2 inch sections until you have several more manageable smaller matts. This should make the tougher ones easier to deal with. If the matts are now cement and you aren't able to pull them apart, a last resort is to cut very carefully from the skin up and divide the matt that way. It won't look as nice, but at least you won't have shaved spots. If this doesn't make any sense to you, PM me and I will try to be clearer. In my mind it makes sense, but I know it sounds confusing! 
The only reason I can think of that the groomer is arguing is maybe she can't do the puppy cut with matts in the fur. Understandable, but she could have scissor trimmed those areas, and explained it to you better! Hope this helps. I know I repeated some of the other's ideas, sorry. If I can help further, PM me or check in the grooming section. Carl has posted some really excellent info there. Shellie |
| Maggie Jane,
My post on Bobtail Matt Removal which a number of people have referenced is now residing on the grooming page 4, the link is. http://forum.oes.org/viewtopic.php?t=2328 Any matt can be removed given access to the proper knowledge, tools, time, effort and a dog who is willing to lie still through the process. However removal of matts which are particularly large, tight or close to the skin is stressfull to your dog and sometimes it is easier on the dog to be clipped down. The decision of course is yours and must best reflect your and your dog's needs, capabilities and home routine. The extreme example I often cite is our big boy Martin Zephram who chose to have a particularly dramatic "blowing coat" episode at about 10 months while we were on a 2 week driving trip. His short duration, high intensity blowing coat period came exactly while we were away without many grooming tools - we had brushes and combs but no grooming table and no conditioners or other matt removal treatments (eg cowboy magic). While I tried to brush him on motel beds it was a loosing cause and by the time we got home he was rather a sorry state. Another week of blowing coat once home added to his dire predicament. As good as I am at grooming and matt removal it took almost 2 full months to completely recover Martin's coat and in the process a lot of hair was broken or removed. But having the thick, fast growing coat that he does nobody else noted any detriment to his overall coat quality. Many people would have simply had him clipped down but because of my experience and Martin's willingness to be groomed his coat was salvaged - just!!! Trying to persuade a professional groomer to properly de-matt an OES is pretty much an exercise in futility and in all honesty I can't really be very harsh on the groomers for this. The groomers attitude and simple economics are against you from the get go! Most professional shops charge a semi-flat rate based on the breed of dog being groomed and the "average time to groom" that breed. Also consider that grooming studios for the most part have an appointment book and hence can't deviate too far from the "average" grooming times. If badly matted dog (of any breed) comes in for its 1 hour "slot" then the groomer has to either defer subsequent clients, do the matted dog beyond it's appointment as opportunities present themselves or most frequently mitigate the time pressure through clipping. Rather than argue with you the groomer should have simply declined the job or explain the time and cost implications to you and reschedule when she could allocate 4-6 hours or more to your dog, assuming you are willing to pay the expense. This is yet one more reason I choose to groom the "big coat" at home. (Just as a frame of reference it takes me approximately 2 1/2 hours to brush Virgil and closer to 3 to brush Martin in their full show coats even when they are totally free of matts. Few shops will alocate that amount of time to do an OES. If they do they are likely to charge $35 per hour and up. $105 is rather steep in my mind for a minimum quality job.) Certainly dispence with the "kennel baths" at doggy day care. They are causing far more problems than they solve, assuming they are actually solving any problems at all. Quite simply NEVER EVER bathe a matted OES - I don't meant to be condescending but there is nothing that will destroy a coat more than this. Bathing in and of itself can cause terrible matting if not done correctly and contributes to matting even in the best of circumstances. Matts before hand simply exacerbate the situation to new depths of dispair. Collars should only be worn by OES when outdoors and off your fenced-in property. Leaving any collar on an OES all the time is analgous to you wearing a head band, not taking it off for weeks on end in spite of rain, dirt etc and pulling it around without brushing your hair underneath it. Michele and I have had excellent results using a 1 inch flat nylon snap collars after trying a number of alternatives including martingdale and choke collars. These collars are easy to put on and take off without catching hair and they have relatively low surface friction so the hair is generally spared the torment of traditional buckle collars and the friction of leather collars. If my Bobtail Matt Removal post isn't enough or if you need more details don't hesitate to post or pm for more information. There is a lot of experience here beyond mine, between us I'm sure we can help you get Tux into "Tip Top" shape and do his name proud. Thanks and Cheers Carl |
| Thanks so much--everyone!!! For all the replies and help/suggestions. I printed it all off so I can read and re-read... I am picking Tux up at 3:30. He has been there since 8:00. I am really nervous about seeing him.. I will post again and let you know what he looks like and what the groomer says when I pick him up. After this..I am going to buy all the things that I need so I can work with him more effectively myself--and them possibly find a new groomer! I think she (groomer) may be a tad bit cranky! Thanks again & I will let you know!! |
| Well, I'm back from picking up Tux from the groomer now. He definitely looks quite a bit thinned out. I am assuming that probably couldn't be helped. He was there for 7 1/2 hours. The mats are gone now--along with quite a bit of hair. He doesn't look bad--just not so full and fluffy as he was. Bottom line: I am going to keep checking him according the what I printed from this forum for mats and get them out myself before they get bad or numerous. Then, when he goes to be groomed--it will just be wash and trim... How long will it take for his hair to be full and pretty again?? He doesn't look chopped or anything--just not real full like he was. Thanks again for all the help. This forum is great! Maggie jane |
| If you want to keep him in full coat, and mat free, I would suggest a complete line brushing with the proper brush and comb at least once a week, personally, I think that as you learn, you will find you can do a better job than any groomer can on your own dog....
I do a full line brushing on Sky every 4 or 5 days, pick out mats with my fingers so as not to remove coat, and only bath her before a show. I bath her white parts as needed, but not the rest of her. My other girl Dancer is shaved down, so that I can concentrate on keeping one in full coat at a time. |
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