I NEED HELP IN THIS AREA! TOO!
 Hello again, I posted in the grooming forum earlier, but this is my second issue I need help with. Kirby, my OES, is so strong and very bull-headed at times. He's a good boy,but there's certain times I can't handle him at all! Those "times" are riding in the car, when I'm walking him he wants to run after a car when it passes and when he sees someone new, other than me. When I have him on the leash and any of these occur, he practically pulls me down! He weighs 90lbs. and I am 5ft. and just turned 62. He was just a yr. old in July. He's been neutered also. When I got him, my then boyfriend and I purchased him together, EVERYTHING was to be shared, but now he has backed out and I don't know what to do. I love Kirby so, but I feel he deserves so much more. He should be able to run and play lots more than I am able to do with him since I work. I have been researching training groups, board and training facilities, everything I know to search.  The contract I have with my breeder says no rescue groups can be used. Does anyone have advice for me? Will Kirby get better in time? I don't feel he has had a fair chance with me. I forgot to mention I purchased one of the static training collars recently, too. I haven't had a chance to use it much yet. Please don't think bad of me, I am just looking for some advice.Thanks so much, Kirby's mommy.  |
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| Welcome to the forum and congrads on your new baby! Don't ever feel anyone will think bad of you here. We LOVE all sheepie owners! I would not use the "static" collar as you term it. I assume that is an electric collar? You need to learn how to sue that or can cause some big problems down the road. You boy is about a year and neutered and is anow chasing cars? I think I read that right. Have you gone to any training classes? Our dogs are herding dogs and it is natural for them to want to chase things, including cars, bikes, squirrels, basically anything that moves fast. Some dogs have a stronger instnct than others. Where do you live? Herding training might be great for you as well. Not sure what you meant by your contract says no rescue groups? Are you thinking of giving him up? A little confused by your post...Keep us posted. People here can help you. |
| When you say "static training collars"... do you mean a shock collar or one that vibrates? Have you tried a prong collar? I personally have no problem with people using these collars when used correctly. Better than being dragged out into traffic or being pulled flat on your face and breaking a bone. When it comes to the point of safety, both yours and Kirby's, you may find it a good option. The vet that first mentioned one to us probably 10 years ago described a small woman trying to handle a very large dog that was dragging her all over. She had no control. The next time she came in with him he was wearing a prong collar and walking nicely. But they need to be fitted and used properly. A humane trainer may be able to help you get better control of him. Important: IF you use a prong collar, please also use a backup collar that's attached to the leash. http://leerburg.com/746.htm When I used a prong collar, I had one pop off unexpectedly. Here's a link on how to fit it- http://leerburg.com/fit-prong.htm . I would ignore the training methods on the site... it's for police-type dogs. Honestly, find yourself a good trainer locally to help you. We actually have had some wonderful trainers at Petsmart. You need to be observant too about who is entering your area so you can turn the opposite direction if needed, get treats in his face to distract him... or even brace yourself for the pull. Training will help. Just a personal view but I think the owner training the dog is the best approach. The dog bonds better, learns to focus on you and you're the one teaching the dog limits rather than a stranger. If you use a facility where you leave him there for them to train, you still have to learn to use their method of training. Will the breeder take him back if you are unable to transform him into the companion you hope he'll be? |
| No rescue groups sounds like your contract states if you can't keep him for some reason he must go back to his breeder? That's pretty standard issue. Have you contacted the breeder to ask for advice? Most breeders worth their salt will try hard to work with you and if it cannot be worked out they'll take the dog back. I'm not a fan of shock collars either. Depending on the dog you risk ending up with redirected agression and you certainly don't want that. But you do need to get him under control before one or both of you ends up getting hurt. In your situation I would go with a prong collar. You'll need help sizing and fitting it and learning how to use it, however. Where are you located? It's like power steering/brakes and given his size advantage more than warranted. Once you know have his attention you can work on teaching him that he needs to listen to you, not his urge to chase. Herding training really isn't recommended with a dog like this. For one thing it requires a reasonable degree of control from the get-go, and that's what you're still trying to achieve. And in any event dogs like this are chasing (basic prey drive), not herding. But the notion of getting more physical exercise certainly makes sense. Do you by chance have a fenced in yard/access to a fenced in area where you can perhaps play fetch or he can run with another dog, or...? The walking is great, but he sounds like he may have some excess energy to burn off? He certainly sounds like a handful.   Kristine |
| This sounds exactly like my boy! Rufus went through a stage of chasing cars also, jumping at people and I really thought I couldn't handle him. I recommend 3 things. First is training classes. It teaches your dog to LISTEN to your commands as well as good behaviour. Secondly, your boy needs to RUN. Burning off that crazy energy every day, or every couple of days will make a world of a difference! I bought a bike (one that fits into my car) and found somewhere Rufus can run next to me offleash as I cycle. Whenever I saw people or other dogs, I would keep going, calling him to keep his attention and he had to follow. It took 45 minutes to completely burn off that naughty energy. It's the only thing that would burn off that energy, walking is not enough & even throwing a ball during walks didn't do it. If you are able to cycle, even if you don't actually peddle that much, I highly recommend it! Rufus still loves it & he's 4 now. The last thing, is you need a good collar which you can control your boy easily. Please avoid electric collars. Also avoid harnesses as these encourage them to pull. The Gentle Leader is by far the best collar I have used. You clip the leash under the chin, I can't walk Rufus on a normal collar but with the Gentle Leader I have complete control and no fear of being pulled over. |
| Has this big boy been to training at all?? I would enroll him with a good trainer Not necessarly pet smart but that is at least a start. A prong will help but make sure it is fitted properly and yes use a backup collar. He needs to learn manners and obedience class will help you with this and help him bond to you Glad you joined our group and good luck with your sheepie. |
| I will chip in with another vote for training classes. Check out the trainers in your area, ask if you can observe one of their classes (it doesn't need to be specific class you plan to take) so you can see the trainer and their methods, and then go to the class of your choice and do the homework! Obedience classes are less about teaching the dog what to do, and more about teaching you how to communicate with him so he knows what you expect of him. Don't forget, too, that while we understand the reason behind some behaviors ("he's just a puppy," "that's a characteristic of [insert breed here]," "he picked that up from his housemate/playmate/previous owner"), it doesn't make them acceptable. Understandable, but not acceptable. A trainer will help you learn how to redirect those behaviors you don't want and encourage those you do want. Good luck, and don't give up!  |
| My two-cents worth. I have a strong OES that is just the opposite of yours, mine is afraid of everything and runs away, pulling me with her. My neighbor saw how she pulls when walking, he suggested I use one of those prong collars. Just the thought of it digging into her neck and possibly hurting her wasnt an option. I bought a gentle leader collar/leash, what a difference. I went on youtube to figure out how to put it on. Now that she cant pull me, she freezes when she gets scared. I know eveyone means well, however trainers cost $$$. I looked into trainers and most wanted $400 up. Wish that was an option. I found this site and the advice I received has been so helpful. I too thought I might have to give up my OES because her strength was too much for me when she pulled. Try the leash, its less if purchased on line. I bought mine at Petsmart for $25. I put the lease around my waist when we walk so it takes the strian off my wrists, she walks right by my side. We have some mishaps but night and day with the pulling. |
| My wife is very small and Kenz is very, very strong. He used to pull her over all the time and she often came back from a walk in tears. She now uses a Hatli collar and he trots along beside her quite happilly. I don't know why it works - its not uncomfortable for him to wear, but it does. Quite simple really. Nik |
| I used the Hatli collar on my Standard Poodle years ago, and yes I agree it works, just troublesome until you learn how to put it on correctly. |
| I would say: he's going to need training! Try the prong collar - or even a well-fitted halter - but these won't solve the problem, they just help WITH training. As others have said, getting him good and worn out can be a BIG blessing - get him interested in frisbee or something similar, so you can enjoy him but he can wear himself out!  Good luck and let us know! |
| I would echo the other's advice. Training, training, training. Sheepies can be very strong willed, and all of mine have liked to pull. I'm not a fan of 'choke' collars, the only thing I found that worked with mine was to just keep stopping when he pulled and making him get back to heel, it makes for a very long walk, but eventually he just got fed up with the constant stopping, and learned to walk really well on the lead. I think the Halti works in much the same way as they don't like not seeing where they're going and realise that in order to look forward when they walk, they mustn't pull. |
| Hi there, I've read your thread with interest and I am sorry to read that your puppy is not behaving. Hope you dont mind my suggestions for what they are worth:- I would suggest getting a hautti - and if possible use this with a collar. Do not use an extending lead, a harness as these do not offer control. In relation to the voice vibration - I always use a herding voice (its a name my friends call my voice when I want the dogs to do something and sometimes the humans take notice as well). The voice speaks clearly and in one word commands - holds their attention. So when you are out walking on the lead - tug the hatti and at the same time speak clearly and use the commands you want - close, heal etc. If I am honest, rightly or wrongly I train my dogs off the lead first and then they are trained on the lead. I would recommend training classes for both of you, but only if its what you feel you need. Can I ask is the food you are feeding him on high in salt? - Bakers for example, as that would explain why he has so much energy and is probably bouncing off the walls. Do remember that OES' are a slow maturing breed and I personally, and this is my view wouldnt have had him neutered as he is still a toddler. I do wish you well with him and I am sure he will learn and grow with you - just remember he is a boy and they do like taking their own sweet time. |
| We have a foster that's about the same age as your dog and has the same nasty habit of wanting to chase cars. I agree with what everyone is suggesting about prong collars. Forget the shock collar. A formal training class will teach you more than it teaches the dog but it's the foundation you need to deal with most any problem. You'll be grateful for that information before you know it. What has worked with "Beryl" is to take him for a walk with a correctly-fitted prong collar with backup (as Jaci recommended). Beryl is extremely food motivated. We walk, he does pretty well. A car approaches in the distance. Before he becomes agitated, take out a high-value treat (something he really loves!) and hold it in front of your face so he'll focus on you rather than the car. Keep him interested in the treat saying something like "look at me!" If the car goes by and he's still focused on the treat, he gets the treat. He's ignored the car now about half of the time, a huge accomplishment. After about a week he's finally starting to come around but it can be a long process requiring lots of patience. Eventually it will click. This is just what has worked for me with this dog, hopefully it will help with yours as well. Would the breeder actually take your dog back? We knew of one recently that had such a contract The dog had exhausted all the owner's resources, their vet recommended euthanasia and their trainers and behaviorists agreed he had serious issues that they couldn't resolve. The breeder refused to take him back despite the contract and they were bound by contract that he not be surrendered to rescue or a shelter. It would be interesting to see what your breeder says when you ask about the problem, or even the possibility of returning your dog. (Your concerns sound minor compared to those of this dog so don't panic!) In the process of trying to protect their reputations it seems that some some of these breeders are actually tarnishing it. In the owner's search to find help with the dog, a large number of people in the OES community were contacted and this breeder doesn't have a very good reputation because of it. Sorry for drifting off-topic here. Just curious about some breeders contracts and how seriously some non-OESCA breeders take them. |
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