Some sort of infection in the ear or this from scratching?
 Makes me feel horrible.The inside of her ear/canal is completely clean and dry. There WAS some ickies in there a week ago but they disappeared after some treatment and recently switching her food. Thoughts? I only noticed it b/c I thought it was a matt (outside of flap where hair is) but it was really just so swollen. |
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| I have no suggestions but that sounds mighty painful, poor girl. |
| mrs j, my afghan did this and it was a hematoma, better check with the vet. we had to operate on his. |
| oh no.. from the pics I googled, that's exactly what it looks like We're take her in after lunch. |
Mr. J just said screw after lunch, he just left w/his girl. Wish he acted that quickly when "i" needed things  |
| Oh no... hematoma maybe? If it is, it can be caused by shaking the head causing trauma to the ears. I'd put a cone on her to help prevent the violent flapping until she can be seen by the vet. Oops... someone else has already said it. Good luck at the vet.  |
| mrs. j, we all know if you had a hematoma that mr.j would rush you off to er as soon as lunch was over.  |
| lol ...gee thanks Still at vet but Mr. J said she'll be getting 1 month prednisone, medicated shampoo (told mr. j not to buy this.. god, anything to up the price. i've got plenty at home), and antiobiotics. Her skin is pretty bad right now due to trying innova dog food (NEVER NEVER again). She said there's 3 options 1 - draining it, but 90% of the time ...it comes right back so it was useless (her words) 2. - letting it go down and doing what we can to prevent her head from shaking (prednisone) 3. - surgery She said she'd start with option 2, so that's what we're doing. Poor girl. The thing looks like a baseball on her ear. She was wearing a cone at night already (soft kind). I hope laying on it all the time ...head squishing doesn't cause it?? Mr. J doesn't think so ...he thinks it's from all the scratching she's been doing? I just wanted to be sure, but he never asks more than he needs to. Can't wait to give my girl a hug. |
| Poor Yuki. It is unlikely that the hematoma was caused by the soft cone. Most likely, it is a result of blood vessels breaking when the head is shaken, and the ears flop from side to side. I worry about Oscar doing this, as he likes to shake his head in my face at 5 a.m. every morning, which has him flopping his left ear against my night stand. I have started putting a pillow there, but he just knocks it off.  I thought I saw another thread where you were feeding her homemade food, so I assumed you are dealing with something medical, possiby a food intolerance. Is Yuki having a rough time with allergies right now? The pred should help with that. What is the dosage? Laurie and Oscar |
| I feel terrible b/c dr said she has to take 20 mg twice a day for 30 days or she'll need surgery and it was important to take that amount. Yuki can BARELy handle 1/4 a tablet (5 mg?) w/o being a complete zombie and her heart isn't racing and coming out of her chest... so now she has to take 40 mg? God this is going to be awful. I had to take her to the vet more than once last time she had a whole tablet. I hope she gets better before we go to disney world early oct She said to take benadryl to offset some of the pill if it's that bad. We've never been to this vet (random info.) but she was open today. |
| At least you know what it is and there are options. |
| Thanks for reassuring me about the soft cone!!! I was so worried b/c she hates that thing but has it on all night and when we leave (which i'm home most of the day). |
| the hematoma was caused by her shaking her head. The velocity the ears reach in shaking throws the blood into those tiny capillaries and they rupture. This is the usualy way to get "bubble ear" tho scraching might be cause.......but that is often going back to the itchies and shaking head. Bubble ears and I go way back. Paige was #1 bubble ear and would drive the vet crazy! Can't tell you how many times that poor dog had surgery on her ears so in the end she had cauliflower ears from all the stitching. Ears bleed!! So it is not a fun job for the vet and thus avoiding surgery. Glacier had bubble ear and I ignored it as it wasn't bothering her. Finally when I had to take her in for something else, I mentioned it. Told the vet it had been several months! For kicks the vet brought out a syringe and pulled out the goo inside, it was not blood, but rather pink......like broken down blood meaning there probably wasn't a cartilage break. So for the last month Glacier's ear was flat again. |
| They make things to help with hematomas... maybe you could find something similar? It's like a snood... but ask the vet first though to see if it's appropriate! http://www.dogleggs.com/surgisoxbandage/ If the prednisone doesn't help with the itching/skin problems, it may be more proof that her itching is at least partly due to a food allergy. (Trying to focus on the positives! )Quote: It is difficult to distinguish an animal suffering from food allergies from an animal suffering from atopy or other allergies based on physical signs. However, there are a few signs that increase the suspicion that food allergies may be present. One of these, is a dog with recurrent ear problems, particularly yeast infections. Another, is a very young dog with moderate or severe skin problems. A third tip off, is if a dog suffers from allergies year-round or if the symptoms begin in the winter. And the final clue, is a dog that has very itchy skin but does not respond to steroid treatment. Source: http://www.peteducation.com/article.cfm?c=2&aid=143 |
| The prednisone shouldn't cause those kinds of side effects.... why would she have been put on 1/4 of a 5mg tablet? That's such a low dose it's basically non existant. The dose she's on isn't really that high, just high enough to do what it needs to. I'm sure she'll be feeling better very quickly once she gets it into her system. |
| My first sheepi had a huge hemotoma on his ear exactly like you describe. we went with the surgery. He came home all wrapped up like a soldier but was fine after it healed. He was almost ten yearls old when this happened and before this, had no big medical issues... Ypu mention using Innova food....We use Orijen Six Fresh Fish kibble...I started it after the pet food recalls back in 2007...Never had a problem with it and love it...They also have a chicken formula. We had amny many problems before using this and after we atarted this Orijen, we've been fine! Good luck...hope things heal up quickly! |
| 40 mg of pred is a high dose. My sister took that dosage for a really bad reaction to poison ivy, only for a week, and then it was decreased to 30 mg, then 20, then 10 mg, so she was off it fairly quickly. The highest dose Oscar has ever taken was 10 mg per day, when he had a horrible IBD episode, and he weighs 110 lbs. Oscar takes antihistamines daily as well (diphenhydramine - generic Benadryl). Looks like there has been some recent info showing that hematomas can occur due to an underlying autoimmune issue, instead of head shaking or trauma. This is when a high dose of pred is prescribed. This must be what your vet thinks is going on with Yuki. I would watch Yuki very closely for any side effects. Also, when she is coming off the pred, make sure she is weaned off it, and not taken off quickly. Fingers crossed that all goes well. Laurie and Oscar |
Joahaeyo wrote: Yuki can BARELy handle 1/4 a tablet (5 mg?) w/o being a complete zombie and her heart isn't racing and coming out of her chest... so now she has to take 40 mg? God this is going to be awful. I had to take her to the vet more than once last time she had a whole tablet. Did Mr. J tell the new vet that Yuki has had problems with heart rate while on prednisone in the past? Is it possibly an allergic reaction to it? The dosage does sound high... I can only base that on two prescriptions... Bumble's scratching and skin were getting worse in December and we talked about Prednisone. I took it with me but didn't use it so I still have the bottle in the drawer. The label says 20mg twice a day for 7 days, then the gradual taper down. He was around 93 pounds at the time. Panda was in bad pain because of the arthritis in her back a few months ago. I did use the Prednisone with her. It was 10mg twice daily for three days, then the gradual taper down. She's around 66 pounds. Maybe dosage/duration depends on the condition it's used for? Willowsprite wrote: prednisone shouldn't cause those kinds of side effects.... why would she have been put on 1/4 of a 5mg tablet? Maybe it's 1/4 of a 20mg tablet. Don't look at the time...  I went to bed, opened a book I've been reading and a few pages in came across what you had mentioned Laurie... Oscar's Mom wrote: Looks like there has been some recent info showing that hematomas can occur due to an underlying autoimmune issue, instead of head shaking or trauma. This is when a high dose of pred is prescribed. This must be what your vet thinks is going on with Yuki. Quote: "... We now understand that this is primarily an autoimmune disease, the bane of twentieth-century health. The body's immune system attacks the circulatory system in this case, leading to an inability to clot and to increased permeability of the ear veins. Thus, the weakness and tendency to hemorrhage are the primary cause of the hematoma. In some cases, shaking the ears may initiate bleeding due to the preexisting weakness, but normally shaking does not lead to bleeding..." Source: Homeopathic Care for Cats & Dogs by Don Hamilton, DVM |
Ashley, I love hearing any food advice b/c I always feel hopeless when it comes to what to try next.  Thankfully this honest kitchen stuff is pretty good so far although now we won't be able to tell for the next month since she'll be on drugs.Her heart was racing so much last night and she peed on the floor. Mr. J did tell the vet and she just insisted on it and said to just give benadryl with it to counteract the side effects she's having? ...although if that's what it does, why not just give a little less? I'll ask my normal vet on Monday if I can give a tad less. When we gave her a whole tablet awhile back, she couldn't even control her pee OR her legs b/c she was so lethargic. This is why my normal vet says to break a 20mg tablet in half ...and then in half again. ......which is what I meant when I said 5mg. My bad Stacey!  Just that amount and she's out all day, no itching, still has excess thirst, but not crazy. Half a tablet and her heart thumps so fast and she can't concentrate and is always laying on us for help (at least this is from past experience). Oscar's mom... thanks for the info. You're making me think more and more about other problems she may be having! Quote: Bubble ears and I go way back. Paige was #1 bubble ear and would drive the vet crazy! Can't tell you how many times that poor dog had surgery on her ears so in the end she had cauliflower ears from all the stitching. Ears bleed!! So it is not a fun job for the vet and thus avoiding surgery. Oh my gosh that sounds horrible. I hope this isn't something that keep reoccurring for both yuki and Glacier Mr. J wanted to give her another bath today (just gave her one the other day) because the vet insisted on giving her a medicated bath and her word seems to be better than mine w/my husband. Mine being... look, I give her a medicated bath with the same dang ingred ALL the time. It doesn't help her not to mention you're going to make her skin so dry!! She just convinced you to buy a 26 dollar bottle that cost 10 on amazon!!! I also told him on the phone to not bring home mometamex for her ear, medicated shampoo, OR ear cleaner because I had it already!!! Same exact stuff. It didn't process in his own ears that I said "Same brand too" ...so he spent over $100 on stuff I got for HALF less online. Men... At least he's starting to see what I'm saying b/c he felt bad when he came home and some of it clicked. |
| Pred suppresses the immune system & is used because sometimes the body's normal rythm seems to get out of whack & things like this can escalate. The important thing to remember with pred is to follow the instructions closely especially if those instructions are for a decreasing dosage. That is how you wean them off of pred & let the body take over. 40 mg. is generally used to kick start the program. I would call the vet & ask them about how to decrease the dosage. Once they have the dosage down a bit, check with them about giving it only in the morning with breakfast. My vet feels rather than divide the dosage up during the day, the biorythms of the body metabolize it better in the morning & the dogs do not get the side effects of pred so much. But remember, this is only once the dosage has been decreased. You are going to notice panting, increased appetite, increased thirst & therefore increased urination. When you need to have them on pred you need to readjust you schedule to accomodate the dog's schedule until they are better. It's not a drug I like to use anymore than needed but I will say when my vet has prescribed it, it has done the job. I credit Isaac's last year of life to prednisone therapy. |
Jaci, great minds think alike!  (Or is it warped ones?)What is the active ingredient in Yuki's medicated shampoo? For Oscar, a shampoo containing chlorhexidine works best (Duoxo brand), as it can be used frequently without drying the skin. I bathe Oscar once a week using this, sometimes more. (I use a generic tearless puppy brand for the area around his eyes.) I also have Ketochlor, which contains an anti-fungal to be used when Oscar is having an issue with yeast. When bathing and rinsing Oscar, I have been told by his dermatologist to use "lukecool" water, rather than lukewarm. She says that they have found that anything warmer than that inflames the skin unnecessarily, so I err on the side of cooler water. How quickly should you start to see a result from the prednisone? Laurie and Oscar |
| Violet had the same problem about a year or so ago. I had a really great vet at the time and he told me I had a choice, surgery to drain it or leave it alone and it would heal on its own. The down side to the surgery is sometimes when the ear heals it puckers, so not a nice ear. He advise us to wait and see. We did and her ear went down before we knew it. We've not had a reaccurance since then. Give Yuks a hug from us. |
Quote: Jaci, great minds think alike! (Or is it warped ones?) You got that right! Honestly though... going through chronic conditions with a loved one, whether human or dog, is hard. I second the Douxo shampoo Laurie mentions. Douxo 3% Chlorhexidine PS if there's a need to prevent infection. Bumble was getting baths 2x per week with this shampoo since February. I'm just now seeing if we can go to 1x per week because I've gotten at least some things figured out with him. I leave it on for 10 minutes... BB sleeps while I go change the sheet on his bed and throw on a new quilt. It's called "team work". I come back and rinse thoroughly. Shampoo- http://www.entirelypets.com/duoxoc16.html Wipes- http://www.calvetsupply.com/product/DOU ... Wound_Care You can get the wipes from Entirely Pets too... CalVet I think is less expensive if more than one is needed. Wipes are good for between pads or spot treatment between baths... I cut them in half or quarters for real small areas. |
| I'll definitely try that shampoo! Ear is starting ........STARTING to go down, so we're happy. I never got around to calling my vet [i know!! bad mom] ...but I used my own noggin' and took her down drastically (prednisone). She couldn't move during the day. Her legs would shake and she'd just piss. I did that for the first day (cleaned up 5 pee) and said SCREW IT. Immediately gave her one whole one as recommeded but ONLY half a tablet at night. Then she was peeing and pooping every time and this is with me letting her out every hour even at night. Just any little excitement and all her pee would come out. It's been a week, and we're now only doing 1/4th a tablet in the morning, and 1/4th in the evening (as of today). First morning I didn't have to use the steam cleaner!!!!!!! She's more herself, still not shaking her head, skin infection is cleared up, so here's hoping it doesn't get worse. Then I'll feel bad for not listening. I just wanted me girl to be half normal in her recovery. It's like she wasn't there when given the full amount. I'll keep her on this amount though for the full 30 days. |
| animals like people are all different and cannot all tolerate the same dosages of meds so it looks like what you've been doing is working. Hope it continues to get better. |
| Sounds like you have been through the ringer. I hope Yuki continues to get better. Some hematomas resolve on their own, so it's hard to tell if the intervention is working or it's just healing by itself. Pred is tricky, because traditionally, a vet will prescribe the least amount that will control the problem. In this case though, the vet went to the highest dose possible, due to some more recent info on the treatment of hematomas. It's a tough call. Some dogs just don't tolerate pred well, and it sounds like Yuki is one of those. A vet at Oscar's office has a red pit bull with Cushings, which requires pred, but her pup has terrible side effects from it. It's a difficult treatment situation. Oscar, on the other hand, took to pred like a duck to water. It has literally saved his life. When he is off it, he goes downhill very quickly. You might want to call the vet and update them on what you are doing as far as dosage. There is a protocol to being weaned off prednisone, and there can be consequences to doing it differently. Your vet needs to know how miserable Yuki is on the pred, and it's adverse effects on her. If your vet dismisses it, or doesn't listen to you, and answer questions, I would be looking for a new one. I hope poor Yuki is feeling better.  Laurie and Oscar |
| If you don't wean your dog off pred properly you can make her a diabetic requiring daily insulin shots. So make sure you find out how to wean her off properly. |
| The weaning process is extremely important because it coaxes the adrenal glands to again begin producing natural steroids that the body needs to function properly. Stopping too fast can cause serious side effects including Addison's Disease. Quote: Secondary adrenocorticism probably occurs most often when prednisone or other cortisone being administered for medical reasons are suddenly withdrawn. "Addison's disease (Hypoadrenocorticism)"- http://www.vetinfo.com/daddison.html http://www.vetinfo.com/how-to-taper-off ... osage.html |
| Just wanted to say I am thinking about Yuki and the whole fam. Sending good vibes that the regime works and NO surgery is needed. Robin |
| You guys were right. Once you get one, they come back. I swear she's been getting a yeast infection in her ear once a month now. Seems like if we miss one cleaning (cleaning every other day) then it comes back. I feel terrible we missed one because she has a hematoma again. Sigh.. Poor girl. |
| Poor Yuki.. Inca has the same problem right now.. she had surgery last Thursday and they left a drain in her ear to prevent it filling back up - she gets it taken out on Saturday. It was about a week before I took her - even though she's previously had a haematoma, so I knew what it was.. I did hope it would go away by itself (the first time they drained it was not a nice experience  ). My vet led me to believe they don't just go away by themselves.. but your experience tells me different!Inca has suffered from ear infections all of her life (she's 4.5 years now) and after we get through this round of steroids and antibiotics we're going to do blood work for allergies - we're all pretty convinced that is what is causing her problem.. Wishing Yuki a speedy recovery |
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