Scaring myself
i found this article to http://www.dogbiteclaims.co.uk/dangerous-breeds.html •Old English Sheepdogs: Again these dogs are very protective of their owners. They are strong-willed and independent and they will nip either other animals or children it doesn't say may or can nip it says WILL nip. i figured i'd ask people that have them if this is the right breed for us? i can't help but think it may be because they look so beautiful that if one bites it's a shock to most people so more is made of it than if a breed that is commonly thought of as aggressive. am i scaring myself reading these articles or is this something that i should be genuinely worried about? thanks guys. |
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| It's their herding instinct. It is bred into them & is normal. If you purchase from a reputable, responsible breeder you should have an OES that has a great temeprment. This, along with health, are the top 2 things they will be breeding for, Conformation of the dog comes 3rd. They can be stubborn in the fact that they need to see a good reason to do something. They don't just run around being a "wind-up toy" that tries to please. As I have told my grandkids as they were growing up, "Walk & they will walk with you. Run & they are going to herd you into a corner to make sure they can keep an eye on you". It is the same with other animals too. The nipping is an instinct & they use it when in the fields & pastures if the sheep & cattle don't stay in order when moving. I have had one that tended to nip when I was doing obedience heeling with them. She would nip at my knee lightly when we did a right turn. I corrected it a few times & it never happened again. She learned it was not an appropriate behavior for the situation. When you are reading "nipping" in our breed it means a "slight nip". One that you need to almost think if it really happened. Not an out & out bite. Again, I can't stress enough for you to purchase from a responsible, reputable breeder who is breeding to better the breed. Their knowlege of pedigrees will produce the best tempered OES for you. |
ChSheepdogs wrote: As I have told my grandkids as they were growing up, "Walk & they will walk with you. Run & they are going to herd you into a corner to make sure they can keep an eye on you". I am going to use this quote at the local dog park and with my nieces and nephews! We have never had any issues with Mady and children. She is around children often, as I have 11 nieces and nephews and we are at a dog park every day that is attached to a children's park, so Mady sees children and gets hugged by children daily. Even though she is naturally even tempered, we worked with her on not being so excitable around kids. Now she sits and lies down to get petted instead of bouncing around. Yesterday she played a hard game of soccer with some of the bigger kids and she had a blast. As great as Mady is around kids, I would still never leave her or any dog alone with a baby or a toddler. Kids can hurt dogs and dogs might defend themselves with their teeth. But that will be the same with the dogs you already have, not just your new sheepie. Our dog is fantastic around kids. There are many kids in our neighbourhood who are new Canadians and come from places where dogs were just not kept as pets. Mady has done a wonderful job teaching these kids how to be calm around dogs. I would make sure that, when you get your new puppy, you find many opportunities to be around kids. Borrow your friends kids! Go to the local park (once the pup has had its shots). Get it used to the excitable and fast movement of kids. Then you can, pardon the pun, 'nip' any negative behaviour in the bud!  |
| we're very lucky in that we live withing minutes of a school, a field, a walking trail and a vet, and a few minutes drive from a supermarket so we're planning on taking her/him quite regularly to get used to crowds of people of all ages. i think oes are one of the few breeds people won't simply walk passed they'll have to touch. we had a whole family run out of the house when i returned home from the pet shop with my pom they just had to touch her because of her lovely coat. i've been around dogs my whole life and i'm a very confident owner these articles just had me worried about tempremant, the whole nature versus nurture, there are certain breeds i would never consider owning as i believe they've been bred for a set purpose for centuries you can't expect they will just change becuase we want to keep them as family pets now. we expect our lovely new pup to herd ,(domino has always been a herder not sure why lol) but it's the reports on aggression that had me concerned, top 15 everytime is a bit disconcerting. i am a naturally pessimistic paranoid person i always expect the worse so i just try to be careful. |
| Two quotes to triple-emphasize: "I can't stress enough for you to purchase from a responsible, reputable breeder who is breeding to better the breed." "Walk & they will walk with you. Run & they are going to herd you into a corner to make sure they can keep an eye on you". This is so true, I walk Mady off leash all the time, and she is always (unless we're at the dog park for her to play with other dogs) close to my side. If I start to run for any reason (even at the dog park), she will instantly run and circle in front of me and bark, if I keep running, she will stay right in front and try and direct me. Mady is superb with children, whether kids in the family or strangers:     I am positive that if you get a puppy from a good breeder, you wont have any worries, especially if you train/exercise/discipline him well and introduce him to lots of children. I'd expect him to become your child's best friend. Oh, but having said all that, they are notorious nippers as young puppies, especially the first 2 months (8 weeks to 16). See the active post in this forum viewtopic.php?f=2&t=33553 |
hehe, you have some gorgeous pics, she's a lovely big bear of a dog, makes me feel better knowing not all girlies are teeny tiny. the breeder we're using is slightly mental but i believe 100% she is breeding to better the breed, she hasn't bred for four years i believe, and she is keeping a little girl. going with a good breeder will definitely cut down the risks of poor tempremant and health considerably. she's so beautiful maybe stealing an already fab dog's the way to go  hehe kidding. i'm very excited i'm just a worry wart. |
Ema wrote: the breeder we're using is slightly mental but i believe 100% she is breeding to better the breed, she hasn't bred for four years i believe, and she is keeping a little girl. going with a good breeder will definitely cut down the risks of poor tempremant and health considerably. I hope you haven't told her to come on this forum Ema  |
| Ema, We got our Zoey as a direct result of someone not understanding that these dogs 'nip and push'. The previous owner had two toddlers and didn't want a dog that did such things; you know, things that are instinct until they're trained otherwise. We got Zoey after eight weeks spent with a prison inmate training program. These guys did a great job and when we got Zoey, she was past the nipping stage; in part to growing out of it and in part to being properly trained not to nip. She still 'pushes' but we all think its funny so we don't tell her no. She's not rough with it, so its no harm done. Start training the dog away from what ever behavior you don't like as soon as you see it. They will learn. Zoey sure did. Vance |
| i probablyattached the wrong link earlier, i'm not to worried about nipping as it sounds normal for the breed and most either grow out of it or can be trained not to it's aggression that comes out of the blue, http://www.petpublishing.com/dogken/bre ... lish.shtml this is the first case i read about, i know it's old but still worrying, there are more i've read too. i think the fact that most people have assumed i meant nipping makes me believe it's because their dogs and other oes they have met have no agression in them? |
| Most of the article just extolls the qualities of sheepdogs, many of which are the ones we love here. They can most definitely be guard dogs, Mady becomes much more protective at night, and will do deep warning barks if she's unhappy with something. I think if someone actually attacked Kim, Mady would defend her. A well bred sheepdog will become fiercely loyal to you and your family. However, I think aggression is not a characteristic of this breed, especially in well-bred dogs. I'd think worries of aggression would be amongst the lowest concerns when considering a sheepdog. |
| Ema. I have had an aggresive OES .His name was Toby .He was aggresive because his previous owners had dealt with his " i'm top dog " attitude by bashing the h*** out of him.I got him at 7 months old and lost him at 14 years from a stroke. All 3 pups I have brought up haven't got an aggresive bone in their body .My husband is long term ill and he has fell on all my dogs more than once .That's an 11 stone man falling right on top of them. The most reaction I have had off any of them was a yelp of shock  In facy Geoff (hubby) fell on Marls just recently and Kenley jumped on them both thinking it was a game. The only aggresive dogs iv'e met have been made aggresive by idiot owners or have a medical problem . |
i think i just scared myself reading about these things one after another after another, i just looked at my three and thought i just can't imagine one of them just snapping and it ocurred to me that these families most likely thought that about their dogs. i do think that in most cases people reporting aggression probably is due to not understanding that they were being herded not bitten. i am actually glad i asked now as i feel alot better, i had been regretting it, thinking, "oh no i bet i've offended people". i still find it shocking that dalmations and dachunds rank highly on these lists too. i think it's rare for an oes to attack so if one does the publicity is greater than if it was a rottweiler attack. thanks guys i feel alot better after reading the replies  |
| I'm not surprised about daschunds, those little guys can be terrors! Most of the daschunds around us do not like Mady at all, and are pretty nasty about it. Though there is one that does and they romp around often at the dog park. In general, when I'm out with Mady, I always worry about small dogs. I think mainly because of the all-too common poor upbringing small dogs receive from their owners, i.e. very little training, lack of socialization, and fearful/paranoid personalities given to them by overprotective owners (when those owners scoop up their precious little baby in a panic because my big furball is coming down the street, they communicate unintentionally to their dog that my dog is a threat). |
| Ema .The only dog to aggressivly attack me for no reason what so ever was a boxer |
| really? that does surprise me i've never heard of boxers being aggressive, i do on american shows like the dog whisperer, that said my mums neighbour had a huge beastly boxer and he was agressive, he lunged at me on my mum's drive once and the owner said an did nothing. the dog was kept outside when they were at work locked downstairs at night but babied when they bothere to give it time no wonder the poor guy was messed up. |
| I agree w/ the dachshunds and dalmations. Dachshunds are little feisty dogs - they were bred to be that way - to hunt vermin in burrows. Dalmations are notorious for biting - they again were bred to be that way. Running w/ the firetruck and clearing the way was their job. A soft and sweet dog wouldn't have got the job done! Also for the Dals, the Disney movie 101 Dalmations was brutal - an already non-snuggly dog got overbred, as now everyone wanted one.  As mentioned - do your research. There are unscrupulous breeders in every breed, in every part of the world...after $$, and not caring about the quality of dog they produce. This is my Chewie - he is sweet and LOVES just about everything and everyone. He and my 18 month old granddaughter are best buddies..... He kisses her and loves her...she says "Chew" more than "mommy"   |
Ema wrote: i had been regretting it, thinking, "oh no i bet i've offended people". That is one of the best things about this forum, that you can ask questions freely. I am a huge fretter about my Mady and post stuff here all the time. I find it comforting to get responses from people who have much more experience than I do. Mady is my first dog. She is just over a year and a half old now and she is a fantastic dog, partly because of her excellent breeder, partly because David and I work hard with her, and in no small part because of the help and support of folks on this forum! So don't worry about offending people by asking questions-we all learn from the answers! |
| My story is about Simon. Granddaughter was over, she was around 2ish. She was in the living room playing and Simon wandered in her direction. I watched from the doorway. Simon walked over to her and gave her a little "nip" on her arm. I'm not sure why he did it but I continued to watch and he did it again. The little girl looked at her arm and continued to play. He was obviously not hurting her as she just looked at her arm and continued on. He did this a few more times and got bored and left. He was either tasting her or trying to get her to play with him. |
i brought home nico at 10 wks old for my youngest 2 1/2 yr old daughter. he nipped her once and knocked her over once as he grew. he never really needed reprimanded, as he was horrified at her crying jags both times and we lived extremely happy together for almost 14 yrs. |
| If you are worried about OES I don't think you should trust ANY dogs. They all come from Wolves, they all have the potential. Treat an OES with love and they repay it tenfold. I'd be more concerned by smaller dogs in all honesty. |
| I have owned 3 dalmatians and none have been aggressive. However they are weird dogs, they act very confident but in fact are big scaredy cats, so if you get angry with them and raise your voice or act threatening they can react with fear aggression. An example is our current dalmatian who is extremely well socialised and a big love bug to all at the off lead park. Some years ago he snuck up and got on the bed with me when DH came to bed and told him to get off he wouldn't (they love their comforts  ) DH raised his voice and quickly went to grab the dog's collar and we were shocked at the reaction......savage sounding barking and growling and a lunge at DH hand (a deliberate miss though). I got up from the bed and asked him to get "down" and he hopped off the bed without a problem. He has reacted this way a couple of other times when he's been frightened.And as Dawn mentioned the breed was done untold damage due to unscrupulous breeders making a quick buck after the 101 dalmo movies. |
every morning my pom get on the bed when hubby gets up when he comes to kiss us goodbye she always growls and snaps, in fairness when she was younger he did treat her like a cat so i think she still fels a tad bitter  i think whatever breed you look into you'll find aggression at some point, i just got a bit freaked out by how many seemed to come up at once. i also think some people will class the herding nip as aggression, some people think my boxer hitting me in the leg as she walks as mean not clumsy. |
| Ema, I have been bitten twice in my rather long life. Once by my sister-in-law's dalmation. This dog seemed to be my best buddy for years ( although she did have a previous bite history ) That bite was a teenage friend of her son's, so they couldn't be sure of horseplay being involved. That bite was to the face. . We had been out with my SIL and stopped in for awhile to visit. Everything was fine until Shawnee jumped up and grabbed me by the neck....not a nip but an aggressive bite, I still have the scars. My SIL is a clean freak so I grabbed my top and held it to my neck and ran to the bathroom so as not to bleed on the carpet. I felt really comforted when my husband ran into the bathroom, thinking he was concerned for my well being, until he grabbed my towel to stop his lip from bleeding. Yup she bit him too. My in-laws had a dachshund that loved to greet anyone that visited, but would bite anyone that tried to leave This evil, neurotic little sh*t got me more than a few times and it was not a nip.Our OES Chauncey was a nipper, but we had researched the breed and knew going in that during the puppy stage we were going to get nipped. We had a 5 year old grand-daughter and a 10 year old grandson at the time and they quickly learned to control him. In fact my grand-daughter had a lab and had been to obedience with her dog and to see this tiny 5 year old square off on a dog twice her size and to have him obey better than he did with us was embarassing/amazing  |
| We got Sunny in March of 2008 and our daughter was born in January 2009, so I know where you're coming from about wanting baby and puppy to be compatible. People thought we were crazy that we got a dog before we had the baby, but it only made sense to us to do the crazy puppy days and most of the hard work with training before we were knee deep in diapers and bottles! So that's my suggestion, is to have the puppy before the baby Sunny (3.5 years) is nothing but gentle and tolerant of our 2.5 year old daughter, even when she runs around the house-which is all the time. She's never, ever nipped, but we were very diligent in not allowing her to nip us when she was a puppy. I think this is probably important with any herding breed. The only thing we had to worry about and work on was when Sunny started nudging kids. That was her way of herding. Nose under the bum, and good flick would send them toppling over. Kids are nearly as stable as sheep. Only happened a couple times thankfully. Training her to obey the wait or stay command in the midst of action really helped that. We were then able to use it during kid filled action with our nieces and nephews and she'd stop in her tracks. It somehow taught her that she isn't alpha in that short little pack, and to back off. So now Sunny is nothing but manners around kids. Just due to her size, she sometimes will bump a kid, but it's honestly not an intentional thing. It's usually her trying to navigate a gaggle of our nieces and nephews, and no one is moving for her, so she tries to get as skinny as she can, but she's still a big, clumsy, OES and can only do so much!!! It's pretty cute to watch a big ol pooch trying to skinny through a space  Kinda like a hippo doing weave poles. Sunny's also really gentle with our daughter in other situations too. She's very good about minding her manners while playing fetch, never lunging for the toy. And she's very tolerant and patient when our daughter does things that she shouldn't to Sunny. It's more work now training our daughter about appropriate behavior! Anyway, all this to say, that OES's are da bomb diggity  |
sixpence wrote: Ema .The only dog to aggressivly attack me for no reason what so ever was a boxer For me, it was an Irish Setter and I STILL hold it against the entire breed. |
ButtersStotch wrote: For me, it was an Irish Setter and I STILL hold it against the entire breed.  Mady's best friend is an Irish Setter, and she's a big sweetheart. She has also been learning sweet behaviour from Mady, she'll now go between my legs and twist her bum around just like Mady does to everyone. |
| All good advice here. I've owned 3 OES's and never had a problem. My Isabelle did nip to heard though, but only if the kids were all running about outside. We have hosted Christmas cocktail parties and the sheepies would heard the guest by simply walking up to them and leaning on them. They would nonchalantly take a few steps, pat the dog on the head and go about their discussions. Before you realized they were all in once section of the house. It would really be funny. The best advice I have for you is to go with an excellent top of the line breeder. It's worth the expense. Then once you get your puppy, socialize the pup with children and other animals as much as possible. Do a lot of tactile touching with the puppy, ears, nose, pads of feet. Get them used to being poked and prodded. Kids will do that to them...... Good luck! |
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