Legs like jelly
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| How old is he? I have regrets at how long we tried to keep Daisey...vet said if they pant alot they are in pain...she couldn't get up with help and had a hard time walking down 3 steps...she finally started to growl at us when we tried to get her up and started getting up in middle of the night and getting in a corner just moving her feet up and down...it was so hard to say goodbye but they deserve not to live in pain...I still feel bad about how long we kept her because we didn't want to say goodbye. She was 13 and the hips had been a problem since 10. I would take him to the vet and take his/her advice...it's best to have a person not so attached give you an assessment. |
lhall15 wrote: How old is he? I have regrets at how long we tried to keep Daisey...vet said if they pant alot they are in pain...she couldn't get up with help and had a hard time walking down 3 steps...she finally started to growl at us when we tried to get her up and started getting up in middle of the night and getting in a corner just moving her feet up and down...it was so hard to say goodbye but they deserve not to live in pain...I still feel bad about how long we kept her because we didn't want to say goodbye. She was 13 and the hips had been a problem since 10. I would take him to the vet and take his/her advice...it's best to have a person not so attached give you an assessment. Thank you for sharing this. I will tuck this advice away for hopefully many many years away from now. |
| Pooh is 12. He had ACL repair about 4 years ago. He had his hips x-rayed at the time and even the vet was surprised how good they looked. It's really hard to judge if he is in pain. He is on Deramaxx once a day. He is a big boy...at least 6 inches taller than most sheepdogs and weighs about 130#. I am having a difficult time thinking we may have to put him down because when I look at him, he still looks like a puppy, but his body isn't. He was diagnosed with a liver tumor 1 1/2 years ago. I cried in the vets office when the ultra sound revealed that...even the vet did. We decided against a biopsy at his age and have him on supplements and Hills L/D formula, which I think have helped. He also had a malignant tumor taken off his body last year, but it was encapcilated, which I was grateful for. So, he's been a real trooper. |
| Hon, 130 pounds is A LOT for an OES, even a tall one. Is there any chance he's carrying extra weight? If so, if you can get that off he may surprise you.  If the deramaxx isn't working perhaps a combination of metacam and tramadol instead? Though if his liver is tolerating the deramaxx, perhaps you don't want to mess with that. My Belle is 13 1/2 (but less than half his size) and had a partial ACL tear we treated conservatively (no surgery) about 6 years ago. She has arthritis in that knee, they get that whether you do the surgery or not, and you can tell when she's gets up from sleeping. Her first few steps can be a bit wobbly as well, and especially on slippery flooring, and that leg is a little stiff. Plus I've noticed a distinct loss of muscle tone in her case and so she's on a very low key gradually increasing walking schedule to help build that up. This winter was especially hard on all of the oldsters. Does he do OK once he's up? Kristine |
| The shaking legs sure sound like the symptom of pain as he's getting up and down. I'd ask the vet if there's more that can be done. |
| Aw poor Pooh Bear. Hope he gets some relief soon. |
| His legs seem to be very unsteady even when he is up and walking lately....like there is something not supporting them properly |
| I'm having a difficult time knowing I may have to say goodbye soon to him. I cried like a baby when I hit a deer with my van. I can't imagine how I will be saying goodbye to my baby. |
| It's hard with the golden oldies. Been there and you will know when the time is right With him getting up and unstable on the legs, wobbly, until he gets his footing and is mobile, I use to with my oldies after they got up, popped one hand under the belly for support, the other rubbed/massaged the back legs to get them going. Only had to do that if they had been laying down for a time. Once up and me rubbing/massaging the legs and the butt they were off and OK. got the circulation going and warmed the muscles, at that stage helped keep them mobile. Do talk to the vet about maybe some sort of pain meds too like Metacam and keep the suplements up to maybe help there with his mobility if the vet thinks that is worth a go. Also maybe some weight loss a bit too has to help as well so talk to your vet about that too if that would be of benefit as well to keep your precious man going.  |
| sound like my miss daytona at age 13 my ex had her the last 2 yrs she was 15 she would need help 24/7 to get up once she was up her back legs were wobbling sometimes more then others.. i feel your pain .. i think you will know when it is time .. do not let her get to the point like my ex did ,at 16 she lost her hearing could not get up and could not even see ;( hugs to you . |
| Thanks to everyone for their words and advice. I really didn't think Pooh would be around this long after he was diagnosed with his liver tumor. I think the combination of Hills l/d, milk thistle, glucosomine and fish oil has helped. He is on Deramaxx 100mg because of his size. The vet thought this pain med would be the easiest on his liver, but I am considering a stronger med to see if there is a difference. Like someone had told me before it's the quality of life you want for them, not the quantity of years in pain. I could never get him to sleep on a dog bed, tried numerous kinds and he likes the floor better. I know this is hard on his body, but this breed can be stubborn! Has anyone ever tried cortisone injections? |
Ron wrote: The shaking legs sure sound like the symptom of pain as he's getting up and down. I'd ask the vet if there's more that can be done. Shaking legs are not in and of themsleves a sign of pain Ron. Legs can shake for a variety of reasons ranging from muscle atrophy as a result of aging, a nervous disorder or as a symptom of an auto-immune disorder. Even the wost case scenario of CA is not necessarily painful as a condition itself - the pain is usually associated with injuries reulting from the patient's falls. Sounds like a vet consultation is in order for Pooh to see what if anything can be done. Virgil's back legs now shake when he is standing and has his wieght unevenly distributed and that is almost certainly releated to his epilepsy. He is not in pain because of that but he does get frustrated as it is becoming more difficult for him to get up, especially later in the day as he gets more and more tired. At his age and general health condition it would be more invasive and painful to him than it is worth to perform tests and treatments which may not be able to help him anyway. Thanks and Cheers Carl Thanks and Cheers Carl |
germany wrote: Thanks to everyone for their words and advice. I really didn't think Pooh would be around this long after he was diagnosed with his liver tumor. I think the combination of Hills l/d, milk thistle, glucosomine and fish oil has helped. He is on Deramaxx 100mg because of his size. The vet thought this pain med would be the easiest on his liver, but I am considering a stronger med to see if there is a difference. Like someone had told me before it's the quality of life you want for them, not the quantity of years in pain. I could never get him to sleep on a dog bed, tried numerous kinds and he likes the floor better. I know this is hard on his body, but this breed can be stubborn! Has anyone ever tried cortisone injections? Cortisone can work well for certain joint related probems but remember that it is a steroid and as such is pretty hard on the body's systems including the liver. Consult with your vet regarding the specifics and give it some hard thought before deciding either way. Saying good-bye to our children and helping release them from their mortal pains is the hardest thing we ever have to do, but it is also the most loving thing we can do when the time is right. I still cry from having to help my beloved Martin Zephram move on almost two hears ago but it is what HE needed and what in fact HE asked me to do for HIM. Tears are flowing right now as I remember his final needs and all that transpired. But as painful as it was and still is, saying goodbye was what had to be done for his comfort and progression. Think about Pooh and HIS needs and make the hard decision when the time comes. You will never get over goodbye but you will learn to live with it and come to a point where you think about the good times you have shared far more than the temporary departure. Carl |
Carl Lindon wrote: Ron wrote: The shaking legs sure sound like the symptom of pain as he's getting up and down. I'd ask the vet if there's more that can be done. Shaking legs are not in and of themsleves a sign of pain Ron. Legs can shake for a variety of reasons ranging from muscle atrophy as a result of aging, a nervous disorder or as a symptom of an auto-immune disorder. Even the wost case scenario of CA is not necessarily painful as a condition itself - the pain is usually associated with injuries resulting from the patient's falls. Sounds like a vet consultation is in order for Pooh to see what if anything can be done. Virgil's back legs now shake when he is standing and has his wieght unevenly distributed and that is almost certainly releated to his epilepsy. He is not in pain because of that but he does get frustrated as it is becoming more difficult for him to get up, especially later in the day as he gets more and more tired. At his age and general health condition it would be more invasive and painful to him than it is worth to perform tests and treatments which may not be able to help him anyway. Thanks and Cheers Carl Thanks and Cheers Carl |
| Ok Carl, you got me crying now too. I'm leaning more towards muscle atrophy in Pooh's case. He doesn't seem too destressed. Pants more at night since he sleeps in our room and he gets too warm. (won't sleep anywhere else) His panting doesn't seem too hard in the evenings lately since I started his "summer do" (I do this in 2 days instead of the 1 day session. I have to get down to the floor level with him now since he won't climb on the table anymore and since he's a big boy there is a lot of fur!) He had his ACL repair in the summer three years ago and took it easy during recovery. (I can still hear the yelp in my head when he hurt himself) Winter came and it was a rough few winters here in Wisconsin....alot of ice and snow. I live in a small town and ice stays all over until it warms up. I'm afraid to walk on ice, too, since I've had hip surgery twice. Last year was the carcinoma scare and the site was under his front armpit area. Couldn't walk him before the surgery decision since I didn't want to break down the mass more. Afterwards he was recovering with shunts because of a lot of drainage and had to take it easy again. Another rough winter...small house and couldn't walk around enough for exercise. So, I really think it is more related towards muscle breakdown. He tires so easily now. |
| Took Pooh Bear to the vet yesterday to see where we stand at the moment with all his issues. We are basically just doing palliative care right now with him, no drastic therapies for the liver tumor and just things day by day. Pooh is actually doing a bit better with the warmer weather. Seems to be using his back legs more, but still having issues getting up. The vet said it is more in his spine and involves the nerves. Could do a cortisone injection, but not good for the liver. Pooh has dropped 15 pounds in the past few months, which is good for him too. We are basically doing the same with him, supplements, Hills l/d formula dog food and light exercise on soft surfaces. Wish he would do water therapy, but he doesn't care for water, he walks around rain puddles outside, doesn't like to get wet! Gave him his summer do, which is not easy anymore since I have to get down to his level on the ground. He is much happier with less hair now, but oh my, my achy bones afterwards!!! |
| Sounds like you are doing really well w/ him - and hugs to the boy! |
| to both of you! |
| Hugs for Pooh! |
Take care Pooh!  |
| You might want to check handicappedpets.com and look at the support harnesses they offer. I've got a senior girl with a deteriorating disc which is causing nerve damage and as a result, she's having great difficulty getting up and getting going. Even if you don't purchase one, you can get an idea of how to make something that's easier on your back than a bath towel sling. By the way, my girl is on tramadol and prednisone. The pred was difficult at first because of the loading dosage and thirst/urination effect, but now that we're down to a lower maintenance dose it's not a problem. The panting might also be a sign of stress. For example, if Pooh needs to go to the bathroom and can't get up, he might be stressed (physically and/or mentally) but not necessarily in pain. It might also be a sign he needs water. Panting is not always a sign of pain. Good luck to you and Pooh... |
| Pooh's vet had a very good explaination of why sometimes the back legs react the way they do. The brain will issue the message to the back legs to get up, but it may be delayed or lost because of the nerve damage along the spine. Then the message needs to get back to the brain that the message was received, with that delay again. Made sense why his legs don't respond to get up as quickly as before and move a certain way. I was really worried we were dealing with degenerative myelopathy, but with exam, this was ruled out. He was telling us of a conversation he was having with an orthopeadic vet on a newfoundland with disc problems who was ten years old with the same problems that Pooh has. Our vet took a long time to explain things to us and really made us comfortable with his diagnosis, what to do and just enjoy the time we have left with him, especially with his liver tumor. We are lucky to have him as long as we have since he is such a large OES in size. I don't think I have seen such a tall one as Pooh. Our vet deals with the orthopeadic issues at the clinic, so I am very comfortable with his diagnosis. I am very glad we found the vet that we have. Pooh's panting has decreased alot since his haircut and air conditioning. We are using the Deramaxx as a PRN, only using when necessary. I guess I can look in his face and see if he is in pain, hard to explain, but I can. We aren't going with a different medication since his liver is handling the Deramaxx well. I often check his eyes and gums for signs of jaundice, but everything is looking good. He eats well and drinks as he normally did, nothing unusual there, except eating a little less since he is getting older. |
I agree with the look in the eye for pain - I'm really getting good at reading Simon's (basset) "pain look". I swear even the dome of his skull looks different.  We are using metacam, and I asked if we should be changing - his response was if he's tolerating it well so far, don't change! (He's been on it for over 6 months - we would have seen organ damage by now.) I have our other senior Basset on Deramaxx, and that works great for him. Fingers crossed for you and us as well!  |
| 02/06/99-06/25/2011 Said goodbye to our friend this morning. It was time for him to go. Went downhill quickly in a few days. My heart hurts so bad. House is so empty. See reminders everywhere.............  |
| I'm so sorry for your loss. Reminders everywhere every day are painful, but the pain will fade in time, and only the warm happy memories will remain. |
| I'm so sorry for your loss. |
| I'm so sorry Your Pooh lived a long and great life - and he had you to thank! Sadly, they just never live long enough. Big to you. |
| I am so sorry. |
| Strangest thing just happened to me. I have wanted Pooh Bear to give me a sign that he is ok now that he has crossed Rainbow bridge. I have a small box I got from his first vet when he was a puppy that I has stored 12 years of licenses, dog tags, etc. This box has sat on top of the refrigerator, flat, not on the edge. I was standing in the kitchen with my back turned and next thing I knew this box is on the floor. It literally would have to be pushed off the top of the fridge to have had this happen. Could this be the sign I was looking for? |
| Yes! |
| I agree with Ron. Yes .... Lisa Frankie and Mattie |
| I say yes, too. Sending you big hugs. (Why isn't there a "teary-eyed but smiling" emoticon?) |
| I say-- most definitely YES! |
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