Agility, what do we look for. Err, for what do we look?
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Hey... Howie is going to agility level 1 on Friday night too!  We'll be thinking of you guys. Good questions, I'm interested in hearing what others have to day. peg |
| Hmmm, Lets start with the building: how large is it, can the equipment fit in easily. Is it heated? How is the padding on the floor? How many dogs in each class. To my way of thinking there should be no more then eight...if that many. When you get too many dogs it cuts down the time on the floor and the time the instructor can spend with you. Instructors: What kind of training do they have? Did they take an agility class and figure they can now train or was it specialty classes. Do they have crates at the building? This to me happens to be very important. If Simon sees a dog on the floor running around, being the herding dog that he is, he wants to be out there and herd that dog. He has to be crated and not be able to see the floor and I can't just leash him because he gets nuts and wants to be out there. If they don't have crates then you need to bring your own. Peace of mind for you and peace for the dog. Give me time and I'm sure that I will think of more and I'm sure that others will chime in. |
| Padded floors. You want to train with instructors who have been trained in agility & who compete themselves in agility. There should be room for crating if wanted but when I have taken classes everyone & their dogs (leashed) work at the same time. At times only 1 handler & dog is going thru a series of jumps while the rest of us watch each other do the exercise. Good training for the dogs to learn that a moving dog is not something to get excited over. I can't impress enough how important good foundation training & work is. Yes, it's fun to watch them go thru tunnels & over the A-frames & thru the weave poles. But the foundation training for this is more important.....learning how to send & collect your dog from each obstacle. Do the trainers have you "warm your dogs up"? Stretching exercises, doggy push-ups, inward & outward circles. If not you are risking muscle damage to your dog. Above all your dog needs to have some basic obedience skills. They need to know how to listen to you they need to know how to sit, & stay. They need to know how to watch you. If you haven't taken a formal semester of basic obedience classes, do that first. You will be doing both you & your dog a favor. Above all, you don't want to do regular agility with too young of a dog. Doesn't mean you can start to learn some of the stuff with them but as far as jumping to height & doing the a-frame etc............you want them to be a bit more mature. |
| Everyone else's tips are great! I do get by without a crate at the moment because I park the car close and put Tiggy in the car at the beginning and end of the class for set/pack up etc. We will be getting a crate though. Did someone say small classes? I can't remember. Another important point is you shouldn't be learning too many obstacles at first with no flat work foundation being taught. My experience of the not so great classes here is they are all keen to get your dog doing all the obstacles but they don't teach you a) how to work as a team directing your dog around the course, b) how to build focus and drive in your dog and c) some don't even teach contacts for the walk, teeter and A frame properly. Oh and dog safety. We have a rule only one dog off lead at any time and on the instructor's direction and no tying dogs up or leaving them unattended in a drop stay. As already mentioned a herding dog and other dogs running can get hairy (pardon the pun). Tiggy is especially excited by the sound of dogs running the tunnel, she can hear them and they they pop into view at the end of the tunnel. She can get quite beside herself and will bark and lunge if I haven't got her focus on me. Have fun, hope its a good class. And indoor is great, we just started at an indoor facility and I am soooo glad we keep getting washed out due to all the rain we've had on Fridays at the outdoor classes. |
| All the above - decent building - flooring 1st, also space to work properly, safe equipment that is appropriate for the venue. I'm not sure of all your venue options in Canada - we have AKC, USDAA, NADAC, CPE, UKC and a few others. Instructors who also compete - while not every competitor makes a good instructor, they themselves should be experienced at trialing, and between the instructors have worked with a wide variety of dogs/breeds. Class structure geared at the long term - like not getting on the equipment right away. They should have solid foundation classes - boring stuff  - like focus exercises, teamwork, want people to have a solid obedience background (in regard to control of the dog offlead - not neccessarily competing in obedience), and a good class size - dependant on # of instructors, space and equipment available.For example of classes - this is how they are labelled and the progression through them where we train. You need instructor permission to move up to the next level, classes are 8 weeks long. I - Intro to agility II - Obstacle familiarization III - Handling/Sequencing Levels I to III are on Monday eves, and are the beginner classes If you pass these, you move to the Tuesday classes: IV - Agility IV (working on combining skills) V - Novice Trialing VI - Titled dogs (2 classes of this) Also one thing others have mentioned finding is "breed bias" - where if you don't have one of the "normal" agility or easy breeds, you are made to feel like a 2nd class citizen. This may be just snobbery, or they may not have experience working with some breeds where agility isn't a real natural sport. The ability to work with all breeds and their different training needs is not a given everywhere  Good luck and report back! |
| Lots of great advice here. |
| Have I told you guys lately how much I appreciate you and all of your generously shared knowledge and experience? I said this to Ron in a pm, but I will say it here too. I am a better 'Mum' to Mady because of this forum. I don't have to learn everything by trial and error as I have all of your experiences help me. Thank you-I will go tomorrow night and get so much more out of it because I am going armed with knowledge. Thank you! Oh, and Mady says 'WOOF!' |
| How did your class go last night? How many weeks is it? And how is the facility, I bet being in Ottawa it was pretty nice? peg |
We will be starting agility soon as well so appreciate all this info  One very interesting point someone made was "breed bias"...I was in a series of obedience classes in a facility that I thought was a bit "biased" with some breeds and in particular, thought OES were sort of "second class citizens". I thought it was all in my head. But it was enough for me to leae and find another trainer. The new trainer was wonderful and one of the first things she discussed was breed differences, how they learn, how they react, what sets them off, what they may find difficult to learn. She was wonderful. I am still with her today. SOmeone once told me...if you are uncomfortable in a training class, if an instructor wants you to do things you are uncomfortable with or you feel uncomofrtable for ANY reason, find another class. Go with your gut feeling. |
| Well the agility class was disappointing. The instructor has never competed in agility. Ever. Very nice man and all that, but if I am going to spend that much time and money, I want someone with more experience. Not that I want to win competitions or anything, but I want it to be fun for Mady, to work her body and brain, and to keep up her confidence. The room was relatively small (I would say about the size of 2-3 school classrooms put together), no room for crates. The flooring seemed to be a series of rubber mats laid out on top of each other. The equipment seemed either home made or kind of flimsy plastic. Now don't get me wrong, he really was a lovely man, but I doubt we will go back there. Mady did fine over the little jumps, but balked at the tunnel when it was put at full length. Easier for the little dogs, he kind of popped them in there and then lifted up the end of the tube, so they only had one direction in which to go. Can't do that with Mady. We didn't push the tunnel thing at all, we didn't want to put her off. Mady did enjoy herself and it did seem to tire her out. I was pretty proud of how she stayed calm in the presence of nine other dogs, one of whom was a big barker (Mady tends to shy away from very vocal dogs, even ones she has known for a long time). We will look into other places. There aren't many around, though. I don't understand Ottawa. A million people, most of them government or high tech workers, so fairly high employment rate and income, lots of dogs, so where the heck are the dog-centred businesses? I would think that this would be a prime market for such things. |
Doing a little surfing at work......  Looks like there are TONS of places!!! Here's a few to check out... this one sounds definitely competitive...maybe a bit snobby though? http://www.dreamfields.com/ only outdoors, but sounds promising - http://www.adrenalinedogsports.com/Adre ... /home.html maybe - looks like agility outdoors, perhaps some indoors? (just thinking for starting, we do ours outdoors all summer - better on grass!) http://www.bfdogtraining.ca/ called the birthplace of agility in Canada - has to be good, right?? North Gower...not sure of where that is... http://www.adsc-agility.com/ East side - both on the same link... http://www.k9101.ca/ http://www.train-r-pawz.ca/Welcome.html another http://www.dogtraining.ca/services.php#agi1 OK, and here's where I got them all from!!! http://www.ottawadogsports.com/agility.html |
| Thanks for looking, Dawn!! Unfortunately, those places are all located outside of Ottawa. I was excited to find the place we went to on Friday as it was inside the city so I am particularly disappointed that it didn't measure up. For herding we drive an hour each way (if there is no traffic), so I would love to find a place that is in town for agility. Also, because we are doing the herding in the summer, I would like to find an indoor place so that we could do agility in the winter months. I bookmark the Ottawa dogsports site, maybe something new will open up. |
| I have another question. We were the only people at the agility class who did not treat train. Is it just standard that all agility training is treat based? I am not opposed to treat training, per se, but it just seemed like an endless number of treats fed to these dogs. Sit, get a treat, stay, get a treat, jump over the bar, get a treat, go back to your spot, get a treat. I would be poor if I had to buy so many treats! |
Mady wrote: Thanks for looking, Dawn!! Unfortunately, those places are all located outside of Ottawa. I was excited to find the place we went to on Friday as it was inside the city so I am particularly disappointed that it didn't measure up. For herding we drive an hour each way (if there is no traffic), so I would love to find a place that is in town for agility. Also, because we are doing the herding in the summer, I would like to find an indoor place so that we could do agility in the winter months. I bookmark the Ottawa dogsports site, maybe something new will open up. You pretty much can plan on driving...it seems to be one of those "murphys law" type things.  Mine is about 30 miles from me - and that's close! Where I train is the only agility classes in town (and this is a city of 50,000). Thank goodness it's a good spot!! If it wasn't, I'd be driving 1.5 hours to get to the next closest "good" class.  There are several in my classes who drive an hour or more, from surrounding small towns. And for me to be able to take Chewie to agility, Todd drives him into town and we meet at a gas station in the middle (between my work and class) and we hand off the dog! I get off at 7pm, and class is at 7:30 - I would never be able to make it otherwise.....  good Todd! And we really are supposed to be in the more experienced dog/handler 6:30 class...but we go with the less experienced (just getting ready to trial class) as it's the ONLY one I can get to. But, it still works! |
Mady wrote: I have another question. We were the only people at the agility class who did not treat train. Is it just standard that all agility training is treat based? I am not opposed to treat training, per se, but it just seemed like an endless number of treats fed to these dogs. Sit, get a treat, stay, get a treat, jump over the bar, get a treat, go back to your spot, get a treat. I would be poor if I had to buy so many treats! Yes, most are. I am not the hugest treater...and Chewie really wasn't the typical "beginner" either. I already use a verbal marker "yes" (as the equivalent of using a clicker), so he already knew if he did a behavior and got a "yes", it was the correct one. So I was able to more randomly treat. We also use a tug reward. Chewie loves his tug, probably more than a treat. And the treat should just be a speck of a treat - usually something soft. I use the small pea sized soft ones, and still use my fingernail to split them into 2-3 pieces. |
| I am being such a Polly Pissy Pants about Friday night-I was very excited about it and so it was a let down. David and I should go through the list of what is available and see when they run classes. I guess we didn't buy a speedy car for nothing! As for treats, maybe I can just run around with a big block of cheese and Mady can get a reward lick! Thanks for the encouragement. |
Mady wrote: I am being such a Polly Pissy Pants about Friday night-I was very excited about it and so it was a let down. David and I should go through the list of what is available and see when they run classes. I guess we didn't buy a speedy car for nothing! As for treats, maybe I can just run around with a big block of cheese and Mady can get a reward lick! Thanks for the encouragement. LOL, yes, use that speedy car you bought for Mady!!!  If it helps, Todd drives a big 4WD Dodge Ram pickup that totally sucks gas down!  And the cheese - you can go one better..... One of my classmates uses the cheese in a can..the soft stuff... so she just pushes the nozzle and dispenses a blob into her dog's mouth!  I'm sorry the perfect location (drive-wise) didn't work out, but finding a good place will in the long run actually save time, money and frustration. There are several here who have learned this the hard way, unfortunately.  |
got sheep wrote: Mady wrote: I am being such a Polly Pissy Pants about Friday night-I was very excited about it and so it was a let down. David and I should go through the list of what is available and see when they run classes. I guess we didn't buy a speedy car for nothing! As for treats, maybe I can just run around with a big block of cheese and Mady can get a reward lick! Thanks for the encouragement. LOL, yes, use that speedy car you bought for Mady!!! If it helps, Todd drives a big 4WD Dodge Ram pickup that totally sucks gas down! And the cheese - you can go one better..... One of my classmates uses the cheese in a can..the soft stuff... so she just pushes the nozzle and dispenses a blob into her dog's mouth! I'm sorry the perfect location (drive-wise) didn't work out, but finding a good place will in the long run actually save time, money and frustration. There are several here who have learned this the hard way, unfortunately. Yeah, that would be me. I have gone thru many agility places in my learning experience and they have been relatively close to home. I found that close does not mean good. I drive 45minutes one way to get to the class I go to now. In my humble opinion, it is time well spent. Simon and I have been involved in agility for about 3 yrs and this is the "first" time he is starting in a novice class. Go figure. |
| I agree, it is definitely worth driving to get to a "good" class. The trainers I've worked with have said have as many types of reward for your dog as possible. So I use treats lots of them, they're really good for what our instructor calls "building value" for something at the beginning. Eg. We are using a training board to teach contacts for the first time. It's a short board on the floor so the dog gets used to stopping with its feet on the board. Tiggy was indifferent to the board. She saw it as an obstacle to step over. So I used a verbal marker "yes" and a treat if she even looked at the board, then if she moved towards it, then stepped on it etc. Now I can't pack the darn thing away because Tiggy runs enthusiastically over and stands on it like patience on a monument waiting for her treats. The theory is you use heaps of treats at the beginning when they're learning then you fade the treats as your dog gets the hang of things. But as I mentioned clicker or a verbal marker, games like tugging and praise and petting. The more rewards you have the easier it is to help your dog learn and enjoy agility. For what it's worth I've also heard Susan Garrett (famous trainer/competitor) say that she believes that treats are better if your dog is very excitable and games are better if you need to increase drive and enthusiasm in your dog. Also remember if you do decide to compete you'll be driving all over the country to trials, so a 30 or 45 minute drive will be a cake walk. |
Mim wrote: Also remember if you do decide to compete you'll be driving all over the country to trials, so a 30 or 45 minute drive will be a cake walk. Boy ain't that the truth!  |
| That's a bummer the class was not what you were hoping for. Ottawa needs a good facility in town...just thinking maybe Mady would like to open her own Agility Program...just saying, she has a car. Mark & I drive 25 minutes out in the country to our class. I took Howie's supper kibble and used that for treats. He was happy with that. Hope you are able to find a good class soon. peg |
| Ah, bummer the class wasn't what you wated. Maybe you can try different classes by first observing without the dog. Most facilities will let you observe their class before signing up... And as far as the tunnel, my dogs learned the tunnle with it "condensed" at first. Smaller length. But, my older one really was scared and in fact stopped half way in. Me and the trainer had to crawl in from either side to get him out! We then tried throwing treats inside for him and he went through willingly, eating the treats as he went and seeing my face at the other end! Now, they both run through with no problem |
| Good point Diane! I knew there was something else to address about the training but couldn't remember what! No way do you put the dog in the tunnel then lift it up.   As Diane said you start with it condensed, some dogs you have to make it as condensed as possible and then use treats and encouragement and praise to get them through. It can be scary in there and its feels funny on their feet and it smells like dogs, lots of different, strange dogs.Then as the dog gains confidence you gradually extend the tunnel. Once they are happy running the full length then you can put bends in the tunnel. It's very different for a dog when they can't see the open end so sometimes you have to back track here and make it shorter or just a teensie, tiny bend or as Diane said you at the other end calling them through. My experience is once dogs get confidence with the tunnel they usually LOVE IT. It is Tiggy's favorite piece of equipment. She has been known to leave me behind at the boring equipment for a quick trip through the tunnel. So many people have asked me how she fits in it!!   But she just seems to crouch down a little bit and bolt on through with no problems and no appreciable loss of speed. One night she didn't notice that the tunnel had changed from a right hand bend to a left hand bend and hit the wall half way through. She actually moved the tunnel from inside but she just appeared still happy at the other end with very bad bed hair. Nothing much seems to faze Tiggy the Tornado. |
Mady is signed up for beginner agility! Course starting in May. We just realized that some of the people we met at the sheep herding workshop and trial actually run an agility place as well! Duh! We met both trainers and they are both very active in competitive agility (and herding and obedience etc). One of them is an Aussie breeder and we met a lot of her dogs, gorgeous with incredible work drives (she breeds for working ethic). They do welcome all breeds and they said they actually have a Basset doing agility right now and it's very silly and fun. So very excited about this! May will be a very full month for Mady!  http://www.train-r-pawz.ca/Welcome.html |
Baba wrote: Mady is signed up for beginner agility! Course starting in May. We just realized that some of the people we met at the sheep herding workshop and trial actually run an agility place as well! Duh! We met both trainers and they are both very active in competitive agility (and herding and obedience etc). One of them is an Aussie breeder and we met a lot of her dogs, gorgeous with incredible work drives (she breeds for working ethic). They do welcome all breeds and they said they actually have a Basset doing agility right now and it's very silly and fun. So very excited about this! May will be a very full month for Mady! http://www.train-r-pawz.ca/Welcome.html That sounds great!! It's always nice to network in the dog world...see, you are already part of your local community This sounds like it should be a decent place to go, they already have met you and Mady - very nice. One thing I noticed in my Ottawa research is that all your classes are pretty expensive. What do others out there pay? The classes where we go for agility are $60 for 6 weeks. All types of classes in our area tend to be about $10/week...like mine are 10 weeks for $100, etc. I pay $5 for drop in rally and $6 drop in conformation also. |
| I've heard from a number of people that agility is expensive in Ottawa. Things generally are expensive here. I think it's partly national-capital-city vs. rural Minnesota cost of living etc. We can't wait! |
| Agility classes in my area are $90.00 for 6 weeks. |
Baba wrote: I've heard from a number of people that agility is expensive in Ottawa. Things generally are expensive here. I think it's partly national-capital-city vs. rural Minnesota cost of living etc. We can't wait! Cost - probably true. I just think Canada shouldn't be that expensive, I guess! And while we're not a capital or anything, Mankato is decent sized - about 50,000 population, and about an hour from the St Paul/Mpls metro. And a timely reminder - I need to send my registration money for next session in now!! |
| I just pay $210.00 for 8 weeks of classes...that is pretty standard in my area. Ugh. 6 dogs in the class, 2 instructors. peg and howie |
| holy cow $210 for 8 weeks of agility. here in Rochester it is $80 for non members and $40 for members. Boy are we lucky. |
| You darn Americans with your inexpensive agility classes!! I shake my fist at you! Between sheep herding and agility, basic vet costs (thank heavens she is healthy), food, cheese, the car we bought Mady, and the eleventy billion toys I bought her, it is a wonder we are making our mortgage payments. I think that some of the sheepies on this forum should be covering some of the agility costs for us, as it was because of them that we are doing this. I will attach a tin can to Mady at Sheepiepalooza and you can all throw a few nickels in there! Hmm, since agility is inexpensive down there, I wonder if we can buy some basic agility equipment at a good price. I need to look into how much we can spend in St. Louis and bring back over the border. On another note, one of the questions I made sure to ask, based on what you folks said here, was if they trained other non Aussie, non border collie breeds. When the woman said they were working with a basset, with such delight and pleasure in her voice, I knew that we were on to a good thing. Now all that is left is to fight it out with David as to who gets to do this with Mady. Wish me luck! |
| Thats great you're getting into a class but I'm sorry its so expensive. Some things you have to think about when you decide who is training Mady: 1)Agility is FUN, just a big playground. Which one of you is...fun 2)Agility involves a lot of running, for you and the dog. Which one of you is fit. 3)At times you will go hither and your dog will go yon and then SPLAT, you will find yourself on the ground and wondering what just happened. Which of you bounces best? Doesn't David teach herding? I think in all fairness, YOU should teach agility. Or maybe you just need a second dog. Thats how we resolve our differences, dh gets one and I get the other...course I get the "good" one |
| Actually, looking into agility equipment costs might be a pretty darn good idea. I suppose the 1st step is for you to check out what you can get it for locally or through the mail up there. And what pieces you want to get 1st. I have a guy here who makes great stuff. He's one of the obedience instructor's husbands and a retired state trooper. He's good - he made almost all of the clubs training/class stuff and competition/trial equipment. (They have 2 sets - 1 for classes, one kept all pretty for trials  )I can price his stuff if you want. Looks like it will be just Chewie and I, so we will have room....heck last time we pulled a trailer down there! Another option is ordering it here, have it shipped to one of us, and then you take it home. One online site I have gotten a lot through is http://www.affordableagility.com |
Simon's Mom wrote: Some things you have to think about when you decide who is training Mady: 1)Agility is FUN, just a big playground. Which one of you is...fun Oh it's settled then. I get to do it. This question was answered by one of the highest authorities in the land. A 4 year old niece of Kim's was over and I was being silly with her. The niece turned to Kim and said "David's more fun!" Kim, asked her, "what am I then?", looooong pause, then the niece said "you're, more, um... good!".  |
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