Right time to neuter

My baby boy, Julius, is 4 months old. My vet wants to neuter him the end of March, so he will be 51/2 months. I read in the Cesar Milan book, and was also told by other dog owners to wait until they are about 8-10 months because they still need that testosterone to fully grow and nuetering before can cause their heads, or bodies to grow short of what they are supposed to. My vet says "no way", and that waiting can bring out dominance and aggression. Any advice??

Thanks,
Ann Marie and Julius
Respond to this topic here on forum.oes.org  
Hm. It's only going to bring out dominance and aggression that is already there. The most sane (calm, sensible, kind) male OES I know are almost inevitably intact. But they are also from lines where breeding for good temperament is a priority.

Honestly, from a health point of view, there is no reason to neuter a dog (bitches are a different discussion) - exception being if they only have one descended testicle. The non-descended one has to come out (or there is a very high increased risk of cancer) and most people nip the "good" one at that time as well, though I know some performance people (non-OES) who have chosen to keep the normal one for the protective value of testosterone. The other exception being if they some day develop testicular cancer which is thankfully not a particularly aggressive cancer. It is treated by neutering.

Though neutering removes the risk of testicular cancer, it also increases the risk of other cancers such as osteosarcoma and hemangiosarcoma, increases the risk of autoimmune problems, including hypothyroidism, and, when neutered young, increases the risk of orthopedic problems.

All of this is just relative risk, mind you. You have to weigh that against the fact that many people aren't comfortable with the added responsibility of owning an intact dog. You do have to make darn sure that no unwanted litters are produced. Plus society in general often frowns upon those who choose to keep their dog intact because after decades of a very successful spay/neuter campaign most people have little to no experience with intact dogs and so living with them is not necessarily well understood, Because of this you risk in a sense being discriminated against (doggie day care, boarding) and that can be a serious problem.

Now, if the dog is already showing behavioral problems like aggression (other than related to shyness) and dominance, then sooner is probably better. But ideally still more on Cesar's schedule than your vet's. And even then that's more for smaller breeds. The advantage of waiting is to wait for the dog's growth plates to close. And though you can only know for sure by x-raying, 12-14 mos (and even more in some big males, perhaps) is probably a better bench mark in our breed.

Vet's like neutering young because it's an easier procedure the younger they are. Plus, by catching them that young, there's very little risk of an accidental litter. So your vet is not wrong from his or her point of view. Juvenile spay/neuter is a sound policy from a dog population point of view, just not necessarily from the individual dog's perspective. I do wish more vets would include the whole story so people could make more informed decisions.

That said, ultimately it's your decision, of course. You simply have to weigh the pros and cons and go with what is most relevant to your life style and your dog. Just a quick summary of some things that should probably be considered in the process.

Kristine
Wait 'til they are fully mature. I always suggest 15-18 months.....as does my vet. You need time for the growth plates to mature & settle in & that doesn't happen until that time. Neutered early on you will end up with a taller, rangier & more narrow-chested boy.....not to mention you lose out of the benefits of hormones in preventing certain types of cancer in later years.
The only time I would ever think neutering that early is a good idea is if you let your dog roam free (which no one should, but people do do it).
Quote:
Though neutering removes the risk of testicular cancer, it also increases the risk of other cancers such as osteosarcoma and hemangiosarcoma, increases the risk of autoimmune problems, including hypothyroidism, and, when neutered young, increases the risk of orthopedic problems.


:clappurple: :clappurple: :clappurple: I'm so happy to see that! The neuter question is political as well.........dog shelters won't release a boy ...or girl...unless they've been "fixed." So the vet community "decided" conveniently....it was OK to neuter young dogs even before the testicles have decended into the sac. Sure the surgery is easier, quicker and cheaper which is good for shelters and their needs. But there hasn't been good long term research on the consequences.

My experience (only anecdotal) with owned and rescued, that had the early "snip" and indeed the boys had problems with orthopedic development and most developed bone cancer later in life.

If you can wait until the structure is set, you won't end up with a long legged giraffe like Jack or Harry, with other structure problems. (I wonder how much CHD might be more related to an early neuter :lmt: )
A good informative link for you to peruse. http://www.naiaonline.org/pdfs/LongTerm ... InDogs.pdf

Your choice if you do or dont. From my perspective non of the pet boys I have bred have been neutered, girls are a different scenario, but unless the dog is showing marking problems, aggression, humping or the testicles are not down, then why alter them?

If you do want too, then wait till they are more mature and there growth plates have finished. :wink:
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