need a handler!!!! PLEASE!!!!
I am certain the problems we are having..NQ's up the wazoo for the past 5 times in the ring. 4~Rally 1~Obedience. I don't feel I am being fair to Heart. Instead of me getting BETTER, I am getting WORSE. The more I NQ, the more stress and anxiety I feel going into the ring, and the more I am distracting Heart because I know she can feel my uncertainty and frustration (with myself, I think Heart is feeling that I am mad at her  ).To give myself a break from failure, and to give Heart a real chance for success, I think getting a handler for a couple of the events may be a smart way to go! How can I find a handler in my area? I was thinking about calling a couple of trainers and asking how I go about looking into it. |
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Um, OK, well, you can't enter her in Novice A if someone else handlers her, but you could probably hire a local Harry handler cheap...like maybe for a pizza or something  Heck, maybe you should switch dogs and take Harry in. Most people do not use handlers in obed and rally because it is all about your relationship with your dog. Some do in agility because they can't physically do it themself, but then "the handler" usually trains the dog. It's not like the breed ring where pretty much anybody can take your dog in. Sure, anyone is PERMITTED to take your dog in - my agility instructor ran belle for me once because I had a conflict. It just doesn't usually work so well unless the "handler" knows the dog well. You don't have to tell the judge, although if say, Judi, was to enter her, she would list herself as the agent (breed ring parlance) or handler (performance jargon) of the dog. I would just enter her as you always enter her, except I think she would have to be entered in Novice B for obedience because even though, say, Judi, needs one more leg before she is forever more kicked out of Novice A, she doesn't own the dog, so for her to handle her Heart needs to be entered in B. Alternately Heart's true handler could work on her ring nerves and realize we all have them and, oh boy, every time I take Sybil in the ring I wonder which dog I have that day   How about taking a break from trialing but keep training, especially in distracting environments, until you both feel more confident and then entering the OESCA national where you know we'll all be cheering for you? That and video tape Harry so you don't feel so bad  My obedience instructor was just commenting tonight how well Sybil was doing. Yeah, sure. IN TRAINING. It's going to take a lot of training her in grocery store parking lots and anywhere else distracting before I actually trust she'll do what I know she can do reliably at a trial! Otherwise you and I will be the two handlers hiding behind the ring, chugging suspicious things out of a paper bag, and alternately breathing into the bag... I'm going to share something with you in a minute. Don't know if it will make you feel better, but maybe it will help put some things in perspective. Kristine |
| Some times I think we forget this.... " What Is A Title Really?" Not just a brag, not just a stepping stone to a higher Title, not just an adjunct to competitive scores. A Title is a tribute to the dog that bears it, a way to honor the dog, an ultimate memorial. It will remain in the record and in the memory for about as long as anything in this world can remain. Few humans will do as well or better in that regard. And though the dog himself doesn't know or care that his achievements have been noted, a Title says many things in the world of humans, where such things count. A Title says your dog was intelligent, and adaptable, and good-natured. It says that your dog loved you enough to do the things that please you, however crazy they may have sometimes seemed. And a Title says that you loved your dog, that you loved to spend time with him because he was a good dog, and that you believed in him enough to give him yet another chance when he failed, and that in the end your faith was justified. A Title proves that your dog inspired you to have the special relationship enjoyed by so few; that in a world of disposable creatures, this dog with a Title was greatly loved, and loved greatly in return. And when that dear short life is over, the Title remains as a memorial of the finest kind, the best you can give to a deserving friend, volumes of praise in one small set of initials before or after the name. A Title is nothing less than love and respect, given and received permanently. Author unknown |
| Awwww Kristine, did you have to, now I'm all teary. |
| Val, I'm with Kristine on this. Give yourself a break, you do so much great stuff with Heart. I believe the work you do together as a therapy team is just amazing and more important than a title. Just my opinion (dont shoot me performance people  ).So take a step back and go back to having fun. Tiggy and I did obedience most every weekend for 18 months and didnt even enter a competition. I wasnt committed enough to get us there  (and Tiggy isnt a biddable labrador, she's a crazy clown of a sheepie), but we had fun and hopefully we'll get a title in agility one of these years. That's if Tiggy gives up on the victory laps and the 'love in' detours, and the incite other dogs to riot antics and the......sheesh, you get my point. |
| You are ALL right, of course. After reading the Author Unknown, and shedding a couple of tears in the midst of it, I know you all are right.... It's about the bond. It's about doing something special with your 'friend'. It's about spending time with people who are as weird and as crazy as you, and not feeling out of the bubble, but in the in-crowd. Did you EVER feel like giving up and just stopping??? I never have. I love going to the trials, and seeing 'teams' in the ring. When the dog and his partner are in sync, when they are ONE, it is a very beautiful thing to watch. I don't want Heart to stop,I don't want her to have to give up her RE title~ But in all honesty, I don't know if I am capable of NOT messing her up! YOU know..MUSCLE memory??? Call it being too old, getting feeble,memory not as good as it use to be, whatever, ... Anyway, I know I joke a lot on this forum, but this thread was very serious. I am not angry..but so frustrated with myself I could cry. I know there is nothing anyone else can do to help me. Judi has offered to practice with me (bless her!) But I know it is all about ME, if I decide to continue handling my own dog. I just don't think I have the right stuff to get over this mountain I created in my mind. And, just to keep doing it, wasting money, time, and energy only to have the handler screw up time and time again. But I don't think, taking a break is the answer, it will only magnify my anxiety when I start up again. I just wanted you to know the reason for the post, and I know now that it is stupid to think I can hire a handler, like in the show ring..NO bond needed when you are in the beauty end of these events ((not bashing show dogs please understand)))...... |
Mim wrote: I believe the work you do together as a therapy team is just amazing and more important than a title. Just my opinion (dont shoot me performance people ).No, true performance people appreciate genuine work. There's a PBGV in Sybil's agility class who happens to be an awesome agility dog, he's just handler challenged. (We've all been tempted to steal the dog and run him I think, though his handler is working very hard to get her nerves under control and improve her handling) More than that he's a certified Search and Rescue dog who flies all over the country as needed. You don't need any initials to realize how amazing that is: dogs doing what dogs were meant to do - serve mankind by working in conjunction with their person. Therapy dogs do that every day in their own way. Some of the best herding dogs out there may never have set foot in a trial arena, yet they prove their worth every day in the real world. Consider the hunter who takes his or her companion with them to enjoy what man (and dog) have done for thousands of years. This is real. It's built on your relationship with your dog and a respect for the dog's history. Titles are nice. And not to contradict what I quoted above, but real world team work is no less so. It's just that most of us don't own stock, or hunt, or need protection dogs or do the myriad of things that our dogs were bred to do. So we have these rather contrived measurements of a dog's working abilities (call trials and tests) so that we have clear cut goals to work towards and something against which to measure our progress. And some times we get so caught up in those measurements that we lose sight of what's at the core of everything we do with our dogs: our love for them and our admiration for their innate abilities. Kristine |
sheepieshake wrote: I just wanted you to know the reason for the post, and I know now that it is stupid to think I can hire a handler, like in the show ring..NO bond needed when you are in the beauty end of these events ((not bashing show dogs please understand)))...... No, you don't need a bond for the show ring. But, believe me, it does help. I've outhandled professional handlers from time to time because I had the advantage of knowing my dog and having her trust. So it all depends. Anyway, you're NOT stupid for considering a handler. One of my obedience instructors, an OTCH handler, has other people handle her youngest dog in agility (and breed), a dog she BRED and has known since birth, because she gets nervous (forgets to handle, forgets the course) and it negatively impacts the dog. She enjoys training agility, she just doesn't enjoy competing. Yet she has a very nice working dog, so that's her solution. I don't think you need to go there with Heart. We ALL screw up our dogs, we go through phases like that, it's called the learning curve and it can be brutal. We ALL lack confidence from time to time, some more than others. We ALL get frustrated at some point or another. You're a novice A person so you don't know this YET. That's why they have A classes Once you've been down that round you don't get as upset because then you already know it's part of the process. I would argue that you have taken a half trained dog into the ring and, given that, what you've accomplished is simply AMAZING. Now, if you want to keep trialing, find something that is at a level you're both very confident at and work on your and her confidence in the ring while you're continuing to work on the skills she needs. You will notice that no-longer-novice A people train a lot longer before they hop right in We've learned that confidence is everything. And when it goes in the toilet anyway, which is inevitably will from time to time, there is only one thing you can do: laugh at yourself and move on. I've been working with Sybil (OK she is extreme for, what, two years now in obedience and still refuse to enter the wingnut. Belle was ready for her CD in three straight legs in 8 mos of effective training. But then Belle is a different dog. And I almost screwed up her first leg by forgetting to breathe. It's not easy to be in an obedience ring for the amount of time it takes to run through novice and only take, what? three breaths? Towards to end she was looking at me like: What is WRONG with you? And where is my handler????Fortunately she stuck with me, but I have to tell you, I was entered three days straight, that on the second day I did NOT want to drive back to the trial. I did, but then as I got to the exit I thought, gee, I've never been to Green Bay before (a mere hour north) maybe I should just keep going? But I mentally gave myself a kick in the pants and told myself that she was ready and she deserved a handler who could help her prove that to the world and that I was going to be that handler come hell or high water and we ended up winning a run-off for a placement. Despite that I've never stopped being nervous in the ring but I've learned to train my dogs to a level where I feel confident that they can hold their own no matter how stupid their handler gets Of course, Sybil challenges that every time we step in the ring. Which is why I have NORMAL dogs too, like her sister Macy. Macy and Heart are a lot alike: they will do anything for you. You just have to make sure they KNOW what you want them to do. And trust them. It takes a long time. I think Belle was almost ten before we truly reached a point where I could just relax and enjoy every second in the ring with her because she was Belle and I knew our time together was not infinite and it was the journey, our partnership, our mutual trust and respect, not the results, that mattered. Right now you are practicing being stressed in the ring. Both of you. Find some pre-novice or beginner novice obedience classes and enter those (both of those classes will be offered at the national, just FYI). Some fun matches. Something else you can both comfortably do. The skill you need to be practicing in the ring right now is ENJOYING being there. It's a hard thing to do but once you get there the rest is easy. Kristine |
 Seriously? You know this is just a rhetorical question as YOU wouldn't let me take Heart into the ring even if I begged and tried to bribe you. And it is for the same reason we all take our own dogs into the ring - it just wouldn't be the same for someone else to put the titles on your dog. So I can only assume that it was to draw the very helpful Kristine here to give you some sage advice. And it was very clever of you as she has about as much self control as Harry when it comes to a thread subject of: need a handler!!!! PLEASE!!!! And many of us are very grateful for her impulse to mentor us performance rookies.  Harry and I wouldn't be as far as we are without her.  .... then again she may not want us on her resume. But this is about YOU!!! Heads up sister............... I have a game plan for you. Obedience - you are sooooooo close. We only have to work on the recall and building Heart's confidence in being so far from you. Piece of cake!!!!! We will also practice long sits and downs because you can never reinforce those enough. Rally - a few more issues but very doable with practice: 1) We are going to teach Heart the one sign she does not know: #49 back up three steps. 2) We are going to practice doodles and put to use these little tricks we have been learning in class to fine tune her skills. 3) You are going to review your signs without Heart. You can't walk a course successfully if you are worrying about what the signs mean. I think you are a little rusty from when we worked on this all the time. 4) We are going to teach you how to walk a course. Because you will know the signs so well that you only have to focus on the course pattern. I work on understanding the course all the time in agility. It is one of my many agility weaknesses. YOU can do this and don't feel bad about asking for help. It is way more than time for me to pay it forward. Look at all of the people who help me with agility at trials - Deb, Kim, Lori, Debbie, Judith, Valerie, Stephanie and other people who have stepped up to make sure that I succeed. The least I can do to show my appreciation it is turn around and help someone else. |
| Judi's right. Excellent game plan, btw. As an aside, rally just never thrilled me because I have to learn all those signs. I much prefer the obedience ring where the judge will simply TELL me what to do next and I don't have to THINK. Don't feel that way in agility, but then a jump is a jump is a jump and I don't have to remember if it's a right or left finish after and if it's a sit and  In addition to everything Judi mentioned, Sybil has a message for Heart. Never depend on your handler to remember a course. Always demand to see it for yourself first! This is so you can bail them out when dumbdumb nonetheless has no clue where you're going next  Hey, I'm just the messenger. Kristine |
| Val... I think in the beginning we're all terrible . You saw my posts with getting Asterisk to understand what I wanted with Agility. It took me awhile, but then it became evident that she knows what she's doing... I just don't know how to properly communicate with her. She LOVES going! She loves the jumps, the A frame, plank, everything! But I think I confuse her because I see she looks at me and I forget to send her with my arms or with words fast enough. She'll get a bit confused and frustrated. I was very discouraged for awhile because it seemed like other people in the class were doing so much better than us. So even when I didn't want to go because I thought I'd make us look foolish, I went for Asterisk. It wasn't fair of me to stop doing something she really enjoys because I feel self conscious. Who knows if we'll EVER compete (if we do it's going to be a LONG way from now, I have A LOT to learn) |
| LOL - don't feel bad Val, we ALL have our "stupid human" moments. I NQ'd Chewie in Novice obedience in January.... and last night we wrapped up agility class with a stunning run on a tough excellent course - fault free..... ...until one of my instructor pointed out .....ummm, you forgot the table.... Seems I had skipped the table on my walk thru's, so I memorized it wrong. Ran it what I THOUGHT was right, and bless his little faithful heart, Chewe did everything I asked him to do.  So I'm sure Chewie is home right now, calling up Heart, commiserating on how they BOTH want new handlers!  |
| YOU guys!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!are amazing!!! Every post is so supportive and encouraging~I feel embarrassed about dumping my insecurities on you, but if I can't do it here....WHERE??? My next rally trial is scheduled on July 24th and 25th, so I have time to work on MY issues and decide if I want to try one more time... ...  Thanks again~~~ you are the greatest~~~ |
I agree with Judi. Working with someone to get the kinks out is a great idea. My trainer works with me and is always pointing out.... did I prepare enough ahead of the movement to let them know what we were going to do next. Most times when I don't get the response I want it is because I did not think far enough ahead before I got to the spot. She has me do the cue again until it is solid with me and then I usually get the correct response and promptly. We also run through practice tests and then she goes over where she thought I had issues and what I thought I did or didn't do well. You can do this  have confidence in your pupper and know that if it was easy everyone would be doing it. You have the skills just believe in yourself and let others help you along this journey. don't give up. |
| Val; I've done NO showing of any kind, so I'm probably the last person to comment here. But I do train my girls a lot; almost daily. I just feel like well behaved dogs are so important, and for us, it keeps the whole sibling rivalry thing in check. Additionally? I LOVE working my girls; love the results and love how happy they are doing a job and getting attention for doing things well. I think you need to focus on the LOVE part, and not on getting Qs. I know how important that stuff is to some people, and how my just saying it will sound like blasphemy to some. I also know it can be especially important if you want to breed, to be able to show your dogs accomplishments in the ring. But shouldn't it REALLY be about how much you love being with Heart, and how much fun you two have? How it builds your bond and makes you a better team? So what if you haven't gotten there 100%, do it enough and eventually it'll happen, right? If its taking you a little bit longer than you want, well relax and enjoy the journey. Luna hated Agility when we did formal classes in the ring. So much so that I didn't even register her to do it at Sheepie Palooza last time. But we got a ton of equipment in the back yard, and she's now more enthusiastic about it than Tonks, and Tonks took second in her group at Sheepie Palooza. I could sign them up for more formal classes, and get them really in shape, knowing all the proper stops and such. But so far I've been content to just work them here, and watch them have fun. Again; I know this may sound like blasphemy. But when I hear you sounding so stressed about not getting the Q, I feel like I want you to have the fun you could be having with Heart. I think what I'm trying to say is Please don't be so down on yourself! Why not take some time to really work together, and have fun together, before trying to Q again? So that when you do go, the memory of the stress will be just a memory. And you will both be so busy having fun doing it together that the Q will come and you won't even realize it! hugs to you both; Allison |
| Allison, I don't disagree with you. (Well, I don't think most people in this breed give a hootnanny about performance titles when it comes to evaluating fitness for breeding, and in actuality we could endlessly discuss just how much a title of any kind really means or what it truly tells you, but that's a whole different discussion). The thing I think you may be missing - Judi and Val and Dawn can fill you in, is that trialing, competing, is a whole experience in and of itself, beyond the Qs, the titles, the performance in the ring - it's a hobby which involves an entire social network, an environment that in and of itself is special and, you get a little hooked on it, or Val would already have packed it in and said, shoot, my dog does all of these perfectly fine and we have nothing to prove. Though it's somewhat out of context, I'm including something I wrote a while back to another OES list for breeders/ehxibitors. My subject heading was simply Memorial Day Musings. Maybe it gives you a glimpse into the world of trialing: Had the loveliest weekend, meaning spent it at an agility trial. AKC in this case. Indoors on soccer turf, which was a blessing considering temps were in the high 80s. Of course, today, when I'm home trying to garden, I'm dodging thunderstorms <g> I've trialed Sybil very sparingly as I await the arrival of her brain. Waited also to start trialing Mace till Sybil settled so I wasn't running two green dogs at once. We're not quite there yet as a team, so there are bobbles here and there, but overall she's settling into maturity and becoming a joy to run. The trial was somewhat out of our area, down in IL, and so there were a number of people I don't normally run into, as well as quite a few teams from Southeastern Wisconsin. People I'd never seen before sought us out during the day to compliment us and declare her a "credit to her breed" (How they determine this when they've probably only seen one of two running before is beyond me, but I opted not to argue I'm not willing to give her that quite yet, but she's coming along nicely and, as her confidence increases, becoming an absolute blast to run. She's just the sweetest little evil bitch who never met a person or dog she didn't love. I watched her laying upside down with her head in a five year old little girl's lap as we waited to run and as I watched them I thought to myself that the day I can't have an OES with that kind of exquisite temperament is the day I'm done with this breed. Hopefully that will never happen. In between we played and people (and dog) watched and I worked a couple of classes and had lots of time to observe and think and what I'm thinking is how lucky I am to be in this sport with these great people and dogs. Beautiful, fit, trained dogs. Often I'll see people there with third generation (since I started running) dogs of their breeding. I see second generation handlers too, as kids are coming into the sport. There were puppies galore there for socialization. The parking lot was filled with the usual dog oriented vanity plates declaring the place completely occupied by people who have quite literally gone to the dogs. The only thing new since I first started running Belle 9 years ago were the some of the bumper stickers. Oh, we still declare that our dogs are smarter than your honor student <g> and so on, but now you also have stickers that state things like "My Dog - My Choice - Just Say No to Mandatory Spay/Neuter" And "I own dogs and I vote!" The HSUS' anti-dog/anti-breeder campaign is alive and well in Wisconsin and Illinois both, the agility community is not immune, but I was pleasantly reminded that we won't go away without a fight no matter how much money and professional lobbyists they throw at our politicians. Perhaps fitting a Memorial Day weekend, I happened to work the excellent standard class where I watched two sibling border collies finish their MACHs. In agility the completion of a championship is celebrated immediately and loudly, with the presentation of a specially decorated bar that symbolizes the last bar jumped on the journey to the dog's championship. Friends sign the bars after, but once presented the handler and dog do a celebratory run around the course with the bar to much cheering and clapping. What made these two MACHs extra special was that these siblings were the last dogs a well-known local border collie breeder ran before she succumbed to a very aggressive form of breast cancer. I was still running Belle when their breeder brought them out and the last time I spoke to Bonnie was the class were I finished Belle's excellent standard title. Bonnie and I had the only two dogs to qualify and congratulated each other on surviving a very tough course. She was always kind and gracious to everyone. A couple of months later she was gone and even though it shouldn't have been a surprise, it hurt like hell to know I'd never see her run her incredible dogs again. Then her daughter and son-in-law took over competing with her dogs in both agility and herding. I can't see either of them run and not think of Bonnie and I don't know why, but I strongly felt her presence when Loretta took her victory lap with Kit Kat. She would have been proud. Perhaps the conformation community is similar. I don't spend enough time there to know. I do know I love the continuity and the fact that there are still dedicated dog people out there. Hope everyone else had a wonderful weekend, three point majors or not Kristine |
| Val: You will try it MORE than "1 more time". We all think at times we should give up. I have the bad habit of thinking we have to be perfect before entering a trial. If I waited for that day, we'd never enter anything! Right now I am going thru the same thing but in agility. I pulled José a few months back due to a minor neck injury. By the time I felt he was fit enough to train in agility again my instructor started up a new beginner class. Good idea especially for us. Of course we are ahead of the others on the obstacles (except for the dang tunnel which José seems to think is going to swallow him & NOT spit him out). Where I feel incompetant is in the handling.....the turns, the sends, the collects. I always get to a level where I am talking to myself & saying "I am NOT smart enough to learn this. I am too old to do this. I know I am a smart person. Why can't I get this like the others?" And I want to give up on it. But then I look at José who is having so much fun & waiting for me to do what the instrctor asked. And most of all I remember Melody, my 1st conformation & performance OES. I remember all the things we accomplished that my friends in the breed never thought we'd accomplish, totally owner handled except for 1 show by the breeder. And I remember the one thing she never let me do was give up on her when all the others said they'd have put her into rescue & gotten another show dog. Everytime I was ready to give up she'd look at me as if to say "Come on. WE can do this." And you know what? WE DID |
| Very nice Marilyn. That is a very encouraging perspective. I keep reminding Val that Heart doesn't know if she Q'd or NQ'd. For all she knows it takes 15 entries into the ring for a title. The joy on Hearts face after she took the jump on Saturday was hilarious once I got over the shock outside the ring. She was thrilled with herself and ran amok to show it. And my favorite rally moment ever was when Val took Pearl into the ring and halfway through Pearl started giving a paw at some of the stations instead of doing a front or a down. I wanted to shout to Pearl "There is no giving paws in the rally ring" even though I was so amused to see her doing what she wanted. Here she was a senior proving once again that an Old English Sheepdog will be a clown at any age. And speaking of which .... she wanted to give up on Pearl and now she has an RA behind her name. Which she richly deserves. |
| To all of you....Judi, Kristine,Mim, Erin,Dawn, Marilyn,Gail, Allison, I will save this thread and refer to it often, as I take another DEEP BREATH...and yes, Marilyn, try one more time!!!!! Your experiences, your words of encouragement, your sensitive support. I can't tell you how much I appreciate all the time, energy and yes....typing you all did to help me get my head back to where it should be. With your help through this forum, with Judi's hands-on help and "plan", I am going to recommit to overcoming my uncertainty and anxiety. Heart does deserve more ring time with me! I deserve to experience our successes and yes even our failures~~ They are all memories, and good memories not matter what the outcome...Pearl pooping in the ring!!!! Heart peeing in the ring, right before Harry was to run the course, Pearl giving me five when I asked for a sit,down. Heart clearing the jump and rejoicing by running a victory lap....and even realizing that I blew a sign, and saying to Heart...'well, the rest of this course is for practice, girl!!'.... ...................thankyou all....  |
| ^^^^^^^^^^^^^ The sign of a true dog lover - dogs and humans have their good and their bad days but they're all good memories..................eventually. Some of my best memories are the stuff ups, I dont appreciate them at the time but they're good for a laugh later and they're always something that reminds me of all the reasons why I loved that dog. The memorable things that dont work always seem to be particular to that dogs personality. I never had a dog who could look so gleeful as Tiggy while she knows she's not doing what I asked. Its often all I can do not to run the victory lap with her, she has such a big grin on her face, and when she gets me to smile at her she gets and even bigger grin, kind of like she's saying "hah, gotcha, you're way to serious girl".  PS no "shoulds" just get your head where you "want" it. A favorite saying of mine is "I MUST NOT SHOULD ON MYSELF" |
| Val all I can say is do it yourself, you will muck up and so be it, nothing more satisfying and thrilling then doing with your dog yourself through to glory. Now in confirmation here, you have to be a registered member to handle a dog at a show. I joined Mim so she could handle babs, first show was an experience I could of stepped in and handled my girl myself. but what is mim learning then?. I want mim to learn along with babette and take the good with the muck ups and blossom and take babs through to her title, whenever that may be  .We learn from Boo boos and better ourselves the next time around, your heart and you too will be so proud and thrilled doing it together as a TEAM, nothing more satisfying when the acclaim is gained and you two girls did it all the way together . It might take longer, but So what, nothing replaces that thrill of you taking your princess through to the end. My first show sheepie I can tell you took a long time from MY MISTAKES, I could go on with muck ups and learning but I CAN SAY the thrill of the accomplishment at the end when she FINALLY got her show title and ALL done by me was "PRICELESS" Yes I did have offers from her breeder and others more expereienced to take her into the ring, but did not want that as I wanted to learn how too and bloom and blossom with my girl myself. Go you two you will get there and take boo boo's with a learning experience and as they say a "Grain of Salt" you both will get there in the end. The more you do together or even muck up the more you build on yourself and as a team, you learn from errors and heart will be there by your side as you both grow in confidence and ability.  So no talk of getting someone else to do for her, you two will get there and it is a learning journey together |
| Val: As Judy said, Heart doesn't know if she Q'd or NQ'd. All she knows is if you are happy or sad at the moment. She's happy ALL the time because she's spending time with you!. My dogs have no idea they have titles on both ends of their names. They have no idea that they get to do a little more than other OES they know & see out there at conformation shows. They don't care if I am spending 5 hours grooming them or we are at a conformation show or an obedience trial. They are just happy they are spending time with me. I am sure Melody didn't know how long that 1st sit & long down were for me back when we entered our 1st obedience trial. Longest 4 minutes of my life! But she sure figured out quickly how to make me happy when she got that ice cream cone that day. Most people in our breed that "show" do so in conformation. I love doing that too. But ever since I trained & competed with Melody I have wanted to do so with all my dogs in performance because there is just something special that develops between the 2 of you when you are BOTH working & learning together......when you find the way to "do it" that works for both of you. So keep at it. I guarantee you will never be sorry. |
| I know nothing of these competitions but what has stood out for me in reading these posts is that it seems to me like it is our dogs who teach US to believe in ourselves, to persevere, to take joy in just getting out there and trying to master difficult tasks as much as we teach our dogs the same things. I had never really looked at it that way before, was always thinking that we were training our dogs, not the other way around. |
Mady wrote: I know nothing of these competitions but what has stood out for me in reading these posts is that it seems to me like it is our dogs who teach US to believe in ourselves, to persevere, to take joy in just getting out there and trying to master difficult tasks as much as we teach our dogs the same things. I had never really looked at it that way before, was always thinking that we were training our dogs, not the other way around. Very astute! Especially the last part. Our breed happens to be comprised of master people trainers Kristine |
that is so true about our animals training us in the process of us trying to teach them. I know that whenever I get tense or a little anxious I unknowingly do something and then it all goes haywire. When I step back take a breath and calmly try again and "know in my head I can do this..." well now it works out just beatifully. I think it is our animals way of telling us to get in the game and relax and enjoy the event. When I relax, they relax and it goes swimmingly. I have even tried yoga to relax, maybe on to meditation so that I don't get so knotted up in my head. Maybe Bella will want to join in on a little doggy yoga  |
| Gail - I think many of them have learned that if they can make us laugh, we will chill out. Yoga, OES style? Kristine |
| instead of OHMMMMMM>>>>>how 'bout ARRRFFFFFFFFF>>>> We had class last night, actually 2 classes!!! First hour? Obedience, which went well. Heart just doesn't like the long sit! I guess mom is too far away! Then an hour of rally, which again went well. It's not the classes we have problems with...it's the '""exam"""~~~  Before class, Judi gave me a very special present! A booklet with all the Rally signs grouped into sections:: Sit, Down, Stand~Combinations of Sits,Downs&Stands~ Paces~Fronts~Turns~About Turns~Pivots~Steps~Moving Exercises and Cones. Her theory, which makes perfect sense to me, is for me to know the signs...REALLY know the signs and then I can concentrate on the 'flow' of the course when in the ring. And the last part of this plan is, of course, to practice Heart on not straying and specific signs that she is unsure of...(3 steps back, jumps, etc.) THANKS JUDI~~~~~~~~~Would have quit after my first NQ if it wasn't for you!!!! So...onward and upward!!!!  |
| Val, if she's insecure on the sit stay, move much closer and SMILE at her while she sits. Shorten the time even if you need to make her more successful in the beginning. As she gets more confident at the shorter distance away, you very gradually take a few more steps back for each time until she can handle the requisite distance, adding a little time at each stage as you go along. This is what builds confidence in a dog and I'm going to guess confidence is what she needs, yes? The stand for exam can also be made easier by asking her to do a sit for exam first for lots and lots of people with you right by her side, and then gradually right in front of her and then further away and then she stands with you right beside her and build on that again. It can be done relatively quickly, just a few minutes a day. Sybil struggles with these two as well, which floors me because Belle lived for the stationary exercises and I barely had to train them at all. I should have known Syb would be different Her excuse is that these are two exercises where you use mild corrections to actually teach the exerices. Sybil is not a big fan of corrections. Even little verbal 'uh-uhs" or just gently putting the dog in the desired physical position. Despite the fact that she pretends she doesn't care, she gets very upset when she is "not right". Sybil is never "not right". Clearly it must be the handler who is confused and "not right" (in the head ) So I have to set her to "be right" lots and lots and lots of times so that the corrections do not overwhelm the exerise because that's just stressful for her. In Heart's case, when stressed, come close to Mom. In Sybil's case, when stressed, do your best imitation of a mule. And I must say her imitation is VERY, VERY good. In fact, one might say that it is RIGHT (on target). Personally I am not a big fan of mules, so try to avoid bringing out that side of her personality The booklet sounds GREAT! Will it be available for other signage challenged handlers? Confidently knowing that they will be right (without having to think much about it) does lots to boost handler confidence as well. Great plan!!! KB |
Yep...Heart and Sybil sound like soulmates ..If I 'come down' too fast or too forceful on Heart, say to place her in the correct position, she cowers (I equate it to my son, Nick, when he was younger, and I would have to correct him in public, ONE TIME, he immediatly, fell to the ground, covered his head head and SCREAMED...""DON'T him me mom~~~ I'll behave!!!" ((I was appalled!!!)) SUCH is Heart when I correct my little girl. Judi is witness to how many times she has cowered, in the midst of a full class when I have had to correct her....And it is every embarrassing, to say the least, as is ALL the curious looks from the audience!!! I would MUCH rather have a a teammate that barks at me, when 'he' thinks he is right...(HARRY)..or a girl who plays bucking bronce (Sybil) than the "POOR ME"" "CALL the ASPCA, she is at it AGAIN!!!" reaction from HEART!!  I will be training her on the long sit (the down seems to be better, for some reason).. As far as a mass production of the Rally Sign Book???? That is a Judi question, but, I need my authentic 1st Edition signed and dated before it goes public!!!! |
Mad Dog wrote: The booklet sounds GREAT! Will it be available for other signage challenged handlers?  Well Val got overly excited about it - not a bad thing though - and described it in detail.I wanted to surprise you - yours went out in the mail yesterday. You may even have it by Saturday. I wasn't sure if you really needed it but you made the comment about being sign challenged so I gave it a whirl. Val and I used this concept before and found it to work wonderfully. As you know I practice stuff a lot and found it to work for me. I am a really confident handler because I know the signs and it totally takes that problem out of the equation when competing. In fact I am amazed at how many people don't really know the signs that are competing as indicated by their walk-through. I just segregated the signs that were similar and worked on all of them at the same time. To clarify the differences between them. About a year ago I made a list. Then I fine tuned it a couple of months ago to keep with my rally cards. I also work off of a table I made a long time ago of all novice signs and another one of advanced / excellent signs. The idea came to me when I was coming up with a game plan the other day to combine the visuals with the list. So each page of the tablet is a different table of the categories Val mentioned. Let me know what you think. I may make them available through the St. Louis OES Club. |
| Very cool, Judi! Did you sign it? Does this mean I get a first edition too???? (sorry, Val  )If you make it available through St Louis I'll link it off the performance site. Would you consider donating one to the rally worker's raffle at the OESCA nationals this September? Signed, of course I'm sure as HECK not donating MINE. Sorry. I'm one of those signage challenged people. Kristine |
| ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ sorry..Judi.... ..I WAS excited about it~~ I find myself moving it around the house, so I can look at one of the signs and visualize it in my head, then I go to the next sign~ I just have to remember to keep it up and away from the Land Shark!!  |
| Check it out first. It may seem totally useless to you. But of course I will donate one to the worker's raffle AND we can discuss any other donation needs at another time. |
sheepieshake wrote: I just have to remember to keep it up and away from the Land Shark!! Yes this has crossed my already mind too. She looks so sweet and innocent - who knew a Shurtle (a hybrid Land Shark - Snapping Turtle) could be so cute? I feel so bad but she was really tense on those long downs yesterday and I all wanted to do was laugh at her. She looked like one of those suction toys from our childhood that you press down and when the suction releases it pops up into the air. She really reminded me of one of those. We will be practicing some of that stuff too tomorrow with her to build her confidence when you are not close to her. You know she is as ridiculous as Harry. He totally was unfocused on me on the agility course BUT he knew if I stepped out of the gate at a dog park. She flinches if you reach towards her BUT she is a total mess if you are more than a few feet away. Make up your mind dogs. Maybe they should all be named Sybil. |
| LOVE the comparison between Heart and a pop up toy!!! LOVE the new moniker::::SHURTLE!!! LOVE the name change for both of them!!!! ((Although, Sybil just might object to her name being attached to a crazy boy and an oversensitive, needy girl!!!!  )) |
| If George Foreman can name all of his kids George we can call them all Sybil! It is just the real Sybil's misfortune that she is named after a famous split personality. |
| I think there's lots of those shmules out there too - sheepdog/mules! |
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