getting or not getting a Sheepdog
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| I think you are right to be afraid of the grooming required. You can always shave them but even that is hard work. I also think there are probably better breeds for guarding children from wildlife. Now if you want a bouncy perpetual child to play with the kids, I'd say a sheepdog is a good choice. That's just my two cents. Will be interesting to see what others think. |
| From what I understand, a few coyotes can take out even a larger dog. And I'm not sure how good a sheepdog will do in the protection dept. As for grooming, if you keep their fur short, they are really no problem in terms of grooming. |
Makes me think of Ralph and Sam  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wolf_and_Sheepdog |
| I do agree oes can be great with kids but supervision is the key, and training is required not only for the dog but the children too. I wouldn't count on any dog to guard my kids from wildlife, if there is that much danger of it I just wouldn't let the kids, or dog, out unsupervised without fencing etc to protect them. Some breeds are better than others with guarding instinct, there may be another breed more suited to letting you know there is danger nearby but even in that case I would only hope the dog would let you know and then time to get the kids and dog safely inside. |
i agree about the shaveing your oes. it is hard work to do it if you dont have them trained from a young age to just lay there and take it  we shave sadie every 4 months now ( three times a year ) and we never have to deal with pesky matts ( her hair never seems to get long enough for them ) and she just seems happyer with short coat. ( even when it's -40° C outside) and i have to be honest, her three inches of coat is WAY nicer to deal with when she's wet/muddy/dirty/covered in leaves/covered in ice, etcetera. i also have to agree that an oes is the best breed for being amazing with children ( in my experiance ). though i do hear german shepards are also quite good with kids. as for the coyotes a herding dog is probably your best bet. though i do agree 100 % with willowsprite NO DOG should have to go up against a pack of coyotes. it's just not going to end well. a fence is a good place to start. |
hide_the_cookies wrote: as for the coyotes a herding dog is probably your best bet. though i do agree 100 % with willowsprite NO DOG should have to go up against a pack of coyotes. it's just not going to end well. a fence is a good place to start. Just curious, why would you recommend a herding dog as best bet rather than guarding dog in regards to coyotes? |
| ... The way i look at it ... sheepdogs keep sheep away from coyotes....  guard dogs are agressive as heck ... and will probably run right at the things  BUT THAT'S JUST My opinion . ( what i say is JUST the humble opinion of a 20 something that doesnt know how to keep it to herself  ) |
hide_the_cookies wrote: ... The way i look at it ... sheepdogs keep sheep away from coyotes.... guard dogs are agressive as heck ... and will probably run right at the things BUT THAT'S JUST My opinion . ( what i say is JUST the humble opinion of a 20 something that doesnt know how to keep it to herself )I think you may be thinking more of a junkyard guard dog rather than a real livestock guardian. A LGD is not aggressive at all. They're responsive and will defend their territory if its threatened but doesn't go out looking for trouble. If trouble finds them, though, they'll take care of it. Most livestock guard dogs are pretty independent thinkers and are very good at assessing situations. Actually, no dog that is well bred is ever bred for aggression- even guard dogs. I think there's a lot of misconceptions about a lot of guarding breeds and they get a bad rap as a result of that. That being said, I would pity any coyote that would get into a yard with a Komondor in it let alone if the family is there, too. That coyote wouldn't stand a chance. |
I'm curious, actually (not to highjack the thread, or anything ), but are coyotes actually a real danger for small children? I know they do go after pets, and obviously livestock, but have you folk who live in an area with lots of coyotes ever hear of them attacking people? We do have them here...but they are waaaay down on the list of wildlife threats that people in my area worry about .(after bears, wolves and moose...in roughly that order  )I also have to say, while it sounds like you probably have plenty of other reasons for being interested in a sheep dog, that coming from an area with a LOT of dangerous wildlife, I know very few people who rely on dogs to protect kids from animals. The problem can be...unless a dog is trained for dealing with wild animals, they can be as apt to cause a problem as solve it. A lot of incidents with wild animals (up here) happen when loose dogs approach an animal that may otherwise have just passed on by. Just something to think about. |
| We had a wonderful OES, her name was Casey and she was the best pet we ever had. Then we got another OES and the dog was absolutely crazy and would attack anything. We decided that this was just a weird dog, and purchased another OES. The third dog was very aggressive and frequently attacked our other dog (several vet bills), then she began biting my granddaughter. She bit her in the face, required stitches, and that dog got put down. Be very careful where and who you get an OES from. |
| Thank you folks for all the good advise! For the coat, I do like it long for the sheepies, they look so cute, like bears... I might just try to take care of it first, and if it ends up being too much, I can always turn to shaving. For the other issue, the dog "watching" and "protecting" the kids - my idea is that the dog would have to alert me (and the kids) if there is some danger around and maybe scare it away by barking, and with it's sheer size.... And yes, you folks are right, I don't think coyotees present a very big danger to humans in general, but they might for a 4 year old, especially if there is more than one of them around. One of my future neighbors said that last winter he saw 5 coyotees standing right at the edge of his lawn looking at his twins (4 yo at that time!)... And it was his dog who scared them away! Actually my first priority would be to have a fun (and trustworthy!) companion for my kids that - second priority - is actually able to handle a situation like 5 coyotees standing at the edge of our lawn. And yes, there are other breeds that might be better for guarding and protecting, but I just not necessarily trust them with the kids as much as an oes. |
| Oh, that story about the biting oes sounds scary. But any breed can go crazy I guess. Any suggestion for good breeders - for calm, happy and intelligent oes? (OK, maybe not calm... ) |
| I don't know anything about coyotes (apart from Ralph and Sam ) but I will just sneak in about the grooming. As a ballpark figure, for the first 2 years you will be brushing a sheepie probably twice a week. If you don't do that, you WILL get matts. Depending on the coat, it takes about 2 hours to brush (mine took 3 hours twice a week until he was 2 years old) then you have all the cleaning up after. Removing matts takes hours on top of normal grooming. Grooming takes a lot of energy, time and patience. If your dog is in the yard playing with your kids (I would never leave a sheepie unsupervised with children- they get too excited and will nip at them, especially as a puppy) then the coat will get more ruffled, which means more grooming time. I'm not trying to put you off, just letting you know how much time it actually takes. There are some threads on sheepies with kids here, so search through. Most people will tell you that a child running and a sheepie do not mix because of the nipping, having said that, there are people here who have sheepies and children very successfully EDIT- forgot to mention you need to walk your dog at least once a day and also taking up some kind of activity is ideal. They need the stimulation, training and rules that a walk brings and the stimulation an activity (like training classes, puppy classes/ socialisation, then maybe agility when it gets older or whatever you enjoy) will make the dog much better behaved. On top of that, TRAINING classes are so, so very important! That teaches them manners and gets them using their mind. These dogs get bored, even in a busy house with lots of space and people, you need to exercise the body and the mind in order to keep a calm, well behaved and happy dog. |
| A good place to start is the breeder referral page of the national club: http://www.oldenglishsheepdogclubofamerica.org If you want to try to go for the full coat, you need to buy from a breeder who is willing to show you how to groom properly so you aren't wasting your time & not getting down to the skin. This can not be learned overnight. It takes time. As for children & sheepdogs..my rule of thumb is train the kids to respect the dog & the dog will respect the kids. Running is going bring out the herding instinct. I always told my granddkids....."walk & they will walk with you, run & they will herd you into a corner." That said, we have placed pups with families with young children with no problem. I have one girl in a show here in town where the family got the dog & then 2 years later had their 1st baby. Baby is now 2 years old & dog is now almost 4-1/2 years old, full of energy but she is perfect around the child. |
| Cassie, that was VERY-VERY useful, thank you very much!!! Also thanks for the advise about the running-walking-herding subject! I'm really learning a lot!!! |
ravenmoonart wrote: I'm curious, actually (not to highjack the thread, or anything ), but are coyotes actually a real danger for small children? I know they do go after pets, and obviously livestock, but have you folk who live in an area with lots of coyotes ever hear of them attacking people? We do have them here...but they are waaaay down on the list of wildlife threats that people in my area worry about .(after bears, wolves and moose...in roughly that order )I also have to say, while it sounds like you probably have plenty of other reasons for being interested in a sheep dog, that coming from an area with a LOT of dangerous wildlife, I know very few people who rely on dogs to protect kids from animals. The problem can be...unless a dog is trained for dealing with wild animals, they can be as apt to cause a problem as solve it. A lot of incidents with wild animals (up here) happen when loose dogs approach an animal that may otherwise have just passed on by. Just something to think about. yes coyotes have killed humans   http://www.cbc.ca/canada/nova-scotia/story/2009/10/28/ns-coyote-attack-died.html |
| If you can't really commit to the time for grooming and serious walks (I hope he/she won't just be left to roam the property as it's exercise) then you should consider maybe a lower mantainence dog, these dogs are absolutely marvelous creatures, but I would say you have to be 100% commited. |
| Our family has owned the Old English Sheepdog breed for 22 years.Our children learned to walk by holding onto them. We began with our first oes in a townhome with little yard then moved into larger homes as our children were born and grew. We have 4 children who are now 14,18,21,23. I also was a lic home daycare provider while our kids were growing up and we had 2 oes who were wonderful with all of our children. Purchasing a sheepdog with a good temperment and from a healthly oes background is key for a pet. It is my experience that the Oes are a commitment to grooming compared to most other breeds even if you do keep them in a puppy cut. I am not sure what part of the US you live in but we are in Texas and our sheepies take a trip to the groomer about every 10-12 weeks at $50-$100 a trip. |
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