There's just this one thing.
He uses his front paws a lot. He bats at us all the time. And it hurts. My husband has three lovely streaks down his face right now. He was sleeping and Rudy was snoozing and I guess woke up. He reached over and whacked Gordon in the face, tail wagging. I woke up to some bad words. Rudy was just laying beside him, stubby tail going with a big smile, eager to start the day I guess.
I have tried catching the paw and holding it firmly. He fusses/pulls and then does it again immediately after being released. I say "no" and block it, but that makes his tail go crazy and he thinks it's a game. I've done the Cesar thing where I make the sound and do the hand as a mouth on his shoulder. He stops for a second, sniffs my hand, and continues. Each approach seems to be a game to him, and I don't want to be accidentally encouraging this.
I know that there are a million worse things he could be doing, in light of his history, and twice something's moved really quickly near his face and he's laid down quickly, cowered, and covered his head, which makes me pretty sure he's been hit before. Considering all that, I think his happy go lucky world view is pretty amazing.
I would love any advice for getting him to stop thwacking us. When it's in the face it's most troubling, but it's not ok when it's on the hand or leg or anywhere else either. Any suggestions on the best (firm but gentle) way to do this?
my experience is too use an "ouch" in a tone that emphasizes pain or displeasure. may not work immediately, but has always worked for me w/various breeds. also this was just recently backed up by my favorite trainer who doesn't always agree w/famous trainers practices.
|So I was sitting on the bed a few hours ago and Rudy batted me so I shrieked ouch. He looked at me funny and hit me with the other. Ouch again. He cocked his head side to side and gave me a one two (right, then left). So I replied ouch ouch.
His tail wagged. Just great.
He did a rapid fire slapfest, and I said ouchouchouchouchouchouchouch and pulled away. He became upset, cried loudly (in the exact same rhythm), and came after me, batting/grabbing frantically.
I said enough and left the room.
My husband (who was sitting on the bed watching the whole time) laughed so hard he nearly hit the floor. Rudy ran to the door (closed behind me) and cried for me, pacing.
This is going to be a very long process...
i was lmao so hard my youngest came into see wth was going on. i said read this, she nearly fell off her chair lol.
tracie, do you think you're using the correct tone of voice?? ask hubby please.
sounds like rudy thought you meant it was cool playtime.
|I'm sure that hurts, but it's hilarious!|
|I am so glad someone finds my plight amusing!
In all seriousness, I'm a teacher. I'm very good at using the right tone. I'm doing an outraged, hurt, louder than normal but not screaming shriek. I think Rudy is just too happy go lucky to ever think anything is not good.
But I will keep trying. Or at least, amusing y'all.
(And I must admit, I do see the humour in it.) Oh Rudy!
|i've asked for professional help. will let you know response as soon as laughter subsides.
|Sorry I get dogs confused -but isn't he a rehomed dog?
The behavior sounds like a trick he learned - most likely to shake hands. He keeps doing it because you are giving the wrong response.
A good reason not to teach a young dog to shake. I just taught Marley this year (4 yo) to high five and many times I wish I hadn't.
|I am wondering the opposite of a trick. Since he did cower and you assume he might have been hit in his prioor life, I am wondering if the hitting with the front paws is a sign he wants to play and is friendly and doesn't mean any harm. I think a paw up like that means, lets be nice in dog language. Perhaps he gets anxious about something you are doing, and doesn't want to get hit so gives you the dog signal for I'm friendly?
Tought with a rescue and so heart breaking to think what they went through befroe they came home to you!
|Most rescues are given up becasue they aren't properly trained - really they aren't all abused. I know my Morgan will flinch like crazy when I close the door to the car, around a stick or any of a half dozen other things. The abuse? The mop fell and scared him once, the door of the car makes a funny noise.
Go with what you've got. Believe me most pawing comes from learning a trick and wanting the reward. I don't think the paw is dog language for anything.
|Two of my dogs and quite a few other dogs that I know like to put their paws on their people to ask for attention. Sophie is particularly annoying about it. The impulse is to give in and pet her just to get her to lay off. This is the wrong response as there is never enough petting for Sophie, at least not until someone interesting comes to the door or the other dogs want to go outside. Ignoring her is the correct response, giving her the attention she craves only when she is quiet and when I decide to. However, I absolutely admit that I am not nearly as consistent at ignoring the paw/request for pets as I should be. And being inconsistent is the worst thing you can be.|
When Sophie and Sherman were puppies, I did see them swat at each other, like playing tag. They don't really do that anymore, but they did for a while. They had some elaborate games of tag and king of the mountain (I was usually the mountain), with definite rules defining who won.
Their paws are big and can do some damage if their nails aren't clipped. Or even if they are, sometimes.
|Liz will do the paw batting thing too. It hurts!!!!!!!! It's an attention seeking thing in her case. They do use their paws in play as puppies. And reaching out with a paw to bat or hook is not a friendship making/appeasement act. Most dogs would take it for what it is, playfulness bordering on rudeness. You may very well be able to break them of it when they're puppies by squealing ouch and walking away, but in an adult where it's more ingrained, that may not be so easy. |
When Liz is being especially rude about it, she gets booted from the room. Since that's the opposite of what she wants, attention, that tends to break the cycle. If it's worked for him in the past - and currently, even squealing is attention - it's quite possible the behavior could escalate before it's extinguished. But once he gets the idea that it ain't gonna get him what he wants, he'll find some other way to annoy you. These guys are smart that way. They do what works to get them what they want, plain and simple.
You may just be seeing the tip of the iceberg of naughty behavior that got him booted from his first home(s) I'm the first to get on my high horse when people dump young dogs for bad behavior that I feel training would have solved, but I have to admit I have every sympathy for my rescue dog's former owner. There were days I wasn't sure if I could survive with her. If paw patting is the worst of his vices, you do indeed have it made and can afford to laugh at his brattiness. From the other side of a gate or door. As you're walking away
|Turn your back on him if you can't ignore him otherwise. I do remeber doing that a few times when my guys were very young.|
|[color=#00BF00]It does hurt - Patch does it occasionally to get my attention, but not that often. If you can't win this particular battle, why not buy one of those tv infomercial nail grinders and keep his nails short. Not all battles are won - maybe he is begging for more affection or it is a high five he was taught, etc etc, you'll never know. Patch stalks and chases cats like she is on a tiger hunt, all i can think is she was never around cats before I got her so whenever I visit friends with cats they put the potential victims in a room. Good luck. [/color]|
|Lola used to do it too. Her pads were rough! I would tell her to stop 'petting' me. Not that she ever listened. |
Oh, and Tracie, never underrate the importance of you amusing us...
|Perhaps Rudy learned that from a previous playmate. Chloe began using her front paws after playing with family boxer so much. Chloe swats, smacks, and pins. She's the champ|
|Tiggy is a big fan of the old one two punch sequence, so I am laughing with you Tracie, as I sit here looking at the long streaky bruises down the fronts of my thighs where Tiggys batted me for attention.|
She plays with Rastus with her paws too and it gets reinforced because he has always done it to other dogs. We were lucky with him he's never used it on human's.
I am teaching Tiggy to nose my hand by holding it in front of her and saying hand. Now when she bats me with a paw I just ignore her if I'm sitting or walk away if I'm standing. And after we practice the nose to hand trick I pat her and play with her.
A couple of times I think she's almost got it. As after we've finished she's come up and nosed my hand so I've patted her heaps for that. I think its going to take lots of practice though as the pawing seems to be a really instinctive behaviour for Tiggy. Its almost like she does it without being aware of it.
I've been busy so I think when I get a bit more time at home with her to really practice it intensively she might just get that I'd much prefer a wet nose in my hand to a big hairy paw whopping me where ever she can reach.
|here ya go tracie,|
good grief! too funny! except also painful!
first, you must be 100% consistent or you will be a slot machine and actually make the behavior stronger.
the problem with grabbing the toes and that stupid cesar noise and other punishment methods is that if they work at all, they only stop the behavior at the moment and it is very likely the behavior will happen again - just like it did!
if you modify his behavior then the pawing will stop.
because he is sooooo determined, my suggestion would be to tether him.
approach him in a way that you think will cause him to paw and the instant he does, turn away and walk away - out of the room or around the corner of the house (depending on the weather, slamming the lead in the car door can be a useful way to tether big dogs). and keep your mouth shut.
as long as he is not pawing, give him lots of attention, but the instant that paw comes up (even better if you can see it coming and turn away before it hits you), leave.
if you can, do it in lots of rooms in the house and have your husband do it too.
when he is not tethered and he does it, leave without running and go somewhere and close the door behind you.
ignore, ignore, ignore.
then let us know how it's going
|I've been pawed in the face before that left some nice red marks when Asterisk became over excited. The WORST was when she pawed and somehow hooked my nostril!|
I felt like me nose was ripped off my body.
oh yeah, quite the sensation. afraid to touch it as you're sure it's mangled.
|Harley (newest rescue) is a paw-player too. Unfortunately, she's just the right size to bat my 6 year old in the face (3x so far). Poor guy. |
I like the advice on the tethering - we'll be trying that. Right now when she comes at us we turn our back to her and say NO loudly, that seems to stop it when it's an adult, but the 6 year old isn't fast enough and just gets knocked over anyhow.
|When I first got Bella she would jump up and bounce and then put her paws on me which I thought was funny but after awhille 70 lbs of fluff coming at my stomach and on my good work clothes got to be tiresome. She would do it only when I was coming home from work or when we were going for a jog. I started turning my back on her and crossed my arms so I wasn't tempted to pet her or hold her back. Yes I ended up spinning is a lot of circles to give her my back, but she finally caught on that I was not giving in. The jumping is better after 4 months and she does occassionally forget when excited. |
I argee with Kerry and you seemd to get the "right"response when you left and she started whining for you. I say keep up that tactic or you might have to get boxing gloves. A lot of people have said it is cute but I remember someone posting earlier that they have actually gotten a bad bruise and scratch on their face from a similar "paw swat".
I feel for you. I want to laugh when Bella bounces but a couple of paws on my midsection and good clothes reminds me that I don't know her full background and I have to be firm and not put up with any bad behavior even if it does make me laugh
|Riley does it all the time. He does it for attention. |
The line got drawn when he pawed me in the face @ 3am wanting me to pet him (as he sleeps in the bed w/ me and that particular night I fell asleep cuddling him). I am constantly working on it w/ a corrective no or ah-ah noise...and after that 3am pawing (which a screamed "ow! - no" didn't deter him) I'm definitely more consistent and it has helped keep it @ a minimum. No more late night attention pawing that's for sure...now he'll just pull my hand over and lay on it.
Mad Dog wrote:
Liz will do the paw batting thing too. It hurts!!!!!!!! It's an attention seeking thing in her case. They do use their paws in play as puppies. And reaching out with a paw to bat or hook is not a friendship making/appeasement act. Most dogs would take it for what it is, playfulness bordering on rudeness. You may very well be able to break them of it when they're puppies by squealing ouch and walking away, but in an adult where it's more ingrained, that may not be so easy.
This is so true. The only other thing you could do is give what trainers call a 'No reward marker', a sharp, short noise like 'UH UH', get up and walk away, every single time he does it. It will probably be a while before he gets it, because he's been doing it for a long time, but once he realizes that it's not having the effect he wants he'll stop (or switch to something else equally as obnoxious ) I would recommend having ibuprofen or Tylenol handy to take when your knees start to scream 'enough!', however.
|We have a beautiful male(neutered) OESxgrt pyrenees. He too has a major problem pawing with his front feet. We have never taught him to shake or any other behavior that involves his front feet. I have multiple bruises and scratches because of this behavior. We have never found anything that will correct this except to be on your guard. We know he only is asking for some attention, even though he gets alot anyway. I often wonder if it has anything to do with a herding behavior? He is only 10 months old now and having read the posts on this site I'm thinking this willm probably be a lifelong behavior.|
|Even though I had 2 black eyes and a bruised nose a few months ago...which was totally my fault ( do not rough play on the floor and roll onto your back ) . If Chauncey bats when playing I will try to take his paw and tell him no. It seems to work. Now he mostly uses his paws to let us know he has to go out. If I'm laying on the couch watching TV ( not paying attention to sutle clues ) he will gently tap me on the shoulder, as if to say excuse me I have to pee now. If we are in bed he will get out of bed and tap on the mattress when he needs to go out ( always on Bob's side ). He does, on ocassion, still swat when we're playing but this has gotten better with age and taking his paw and a NO.|
|When the paw batting starts give a high pitched "yelp", cross your arms and turn your back on him. If he comes around to your front continue to turn your back on him until he gets bored and goes off. Do this a few times and see if it gets you anywhere. I saw this on a training show. Good luck......|
|Ferdinand wakes me up with his paw...he just plops it on my head. He also uses his paw to tell me it's time to take a break from freelancing. He ALSO uses his paw to push me around, and THAT I don't allow...but he does it anyway. I find that if I say NO and then ease him away with my thigh to make him back up and then ignore him, he'll plop down and knock it off....and then, I make sure I reward him for being so patient. The nails DO hurt...so, it's worth it to curb it. OH OUCH...there he goes again...time to go out! Ouch!!! |
Felix doesn't do the paw thing. He Hugs. He seems to have been taught to jump up and hug people he loves, which, we are trying to break him of that because he loves our kids...and he's too big to jump on them. Ouch! YES I HEAR YOU FERDI! OUCH!
See ya later....
|My OES is 1 on Valentines Day. This is a big problem for Abigail too. She uses her paws for almost everything. From getting attention to digging in the furniture. If something is under the couch, she digs at it. Telling her no, leave it or ouch does not work. I think it may be a trait of the OES. It's definitely an attention getter. I am currently trying to say no go lie down and ignore her behaviour. For the most part it works and she tries barking for attention. She sulks but calms down. I am going to try this with consistency and see if it works. This is the most annoying trait of the OES. They're stubborn, in your face pooches but you gotta love em!|
|Hi my old english Patch has done the batting act since we got her at 4 months. I have never been able to stop her. I have tried ignoring |
her. That results in more scrapes down my legs and arms. I have turned my back which results in more claw marks down the back and legs. She also turns holding her paw into a game. Also when i walk away she curls her paw and leg around mine and stops me. My dog is 8 next week. I have just learnt to dodge the paw and take the pain!
|Didn't find exactly what you're looking for? Search again here:
Identifying Ticks info