what about the actual bath?
 )
I want everything laid out before I actually start. I'm not sure I'll be able to do this but am willing to try. I plan to have him groomed every other week in the beginning till I get better at it. None of the groomer here have line groomed though and I'm sure the undercoat doesn't get brushed out properly so I;m anxious to get started. So far I have a list...pin brush, comb, slicker brush, spray bottle. I think for now I'll take Lucky to the vet for ears and toenails at the suggestion of another poster. I know it's a LOT of questions and I really appreciate the time you all take to help out ansering them. Thanks everyone. |
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| Yes, you definitely want to get Lucky all brushed out before you bathe.
This is how we bathe at our house 
In the house version: Brush out coat. In full coat, this is several hours all by itself. Run a few inches of water in the tub. Have dog step into tub. (even my basset does this, but it's one big jump). Mine are all trained (obedience) so, they stand and stay. Even my foster dogs stand and stay. Wet the dog down. This takes awhile, as it needs to get through all the coat. Shampoo of choice. It works best to dilute the shampoo real watery for most of the body, in a bottle. (they make special bottles, but an old dish soap bottle works well too!) It can be used more full strength for stained areas - mouth, feet, etc. Don't scrub in a way that makes tangles! Rinse - takes a long time to get out of the hair. Using your hands like a squeegie as you rinse helps. Conditioner (a no no for show coats, but fine for pets) of choice. I dilute that in a bottle too, work through the coat, and again, RINSE thoroughly. If you think you're done, rinse a litlle longer.
Then I squeeze out as much water as I can, like a squeegie with my hands. I lay a thick towel on the floor outside the tub, and have them step/jump out onto it. Triggers a huge shake off, so I have a towel held like a shield as they jump onto the towel. Mine all know the towel is where they stay (little bathroom helps too!), and I squeeze the coat, using the towel like a blotter (don't rub - makes snarls). Then we walk to the grooming table, assist the dog up (in Chewie's case it's lift front legs, then hoist the back end up  ).
I have a stand dryer, I start drying and brushing with the pin brush. This takes a long time if the coat is long and thick. In this time, I trim nails, check ears, all that good stuff. Summer alternate version - using a hose hooked to my porch mud sink and running it out the door, I use the kiddie pool.
Everything else the same! |
| I bath Tiggy the same way as Dawn except that I have a double shower so I just walk (drag, she hates baths) her in.
Wear clothes that you dont mind getting doggy water all over. The shake is amazing, like a shower. In summer I often just wear swimsuit.
I now have a dog blower but only just got it. So for 18 months used my own hair dryer on the cool setting. Hot can burn them or damage their coat and Tiggy gets hot really easily. It took ages to dry her with a hand dryer though and was harder because I had to hold the dryer in one hand and brush with the other. So I love my new blower with groomers third arm. Tiggy doesnt like it much though.
You can keep your dog looking good with just a pin brush, comb, squirt bottle, shampoo, towels and hand hair dryer, I did! I even used my island bar at first till I got a grooming table. But its much quicker and easier if you have better equipment. Depends on how much you have to spend on grooming equipment. I would love a stand dryer but they are expensive and I live in a very small house with hardly any storage space so there's no where to keep one either. |
| wow thanks for the help!! I was looking at the grooming tables and they seem rather small compared to the dimensions Carl mentions in his photo essay. Is there a recommendation of somewhere you can get larger ones? Also the dryers...what is the difference between a stand dryer and a 3rd arm? Do you buy the cool dryers? I notice both hot and cool dryers are available. Do you brush them the entire time they are drying, or just a bit and let the dryer do the rest? Do you then have to line groom afterwards?.........sorry for all the questions again, but on the bright side, I am printing all this so I can reference back and not keep asking
on a side note: I have very very curly hair and the way Dawn explains the blotting and shampooing without causing snarles is the same way I have to do my hair otherwise....Rosanna Rosannadanna  |
| You'd be surprized when it comes to what size table you need. We don't have any dog grooming supplie stores here (other than Petsmart and petco, which are pretty pricey). I got my table at PetEdge (the purple one, because it's an AWESOME color).
It really depends on the weight of your dog if you think you can lift him or not. Asterisk is only 64lbs and I can lift her. Wendel is 75 and I ask Josh to place him on the table for me. Surprizingly, Wendel will sometimes jump onto the table if I ask him to. There are also pricier hydrolic lifting tables, which I wish I had gotten, but will in time that will lower and raise with the push of a button. Just be patient when it comes to grooming. It took Asterisk a very, very long time for her to enjoy it. Also, it has taken me months to perfect my technique. Also, it really depends on what tools you use. I just discovered the best dematting tool I have ever used. It's from petedge and is a v-shaped pin brush that just breaks the matt into tiny pieces that a slicker will pull right out. I definately encourage a stand drier too. I just got mine and I don't know how I survived without it. As far as line brushing goes, it really depends, in my experience in your dogs coat. Asterisk has downy soft, straight fur. Wendel has a plush, coarse curly coat. Asterisk's is far easier to line brush as it easily seperates and stays put. Wendel's is more of a challenge. Sometimes I just part the fur and use my one arm to keep the fur parted and the other to brush out the coat. I've been thinking about using hair clips to keep it back. Good luck in your grooming adventure! |
| I have 2 tables - a big black one, and a smaller pink one. The pink one is like the purple one - from Petedge.
The pink one gets used most. It's not huge, but works fine. This is Chewie on it, the day I found out he was "officially" a Champion and I started cutting down his hair! 
My stand dryer has 3 settings cool, warm and hot. I use the cool most of the time. If I need to dry him faster, I use warm. Chewie is a very warm dog though, so it is rare. If I use warm he pants. I brush and seperate the hair as it's drying. Definitely not brushing all the time, but as needed. Each time I move the dryer aim to a new spot, brush. Mine is by my computer, so I stay in the room, but do something else for a bit. Go back, brush him, adjust the dryer aim, go back to the computer...and so on. Now with a new pup, or a dog not used to it, you need to stay with them a lot more. You shouldn't need to fully line groom after. I am going through parts of him as he's drying. At the end its more of a quick line groom to make sure I haven't missed a spot.
ps - as I look at the picture - my "butt comb" is lying in the hair! Not a good picture though.  |
| As long as we are talking dryers too, can anyone give me the name of a very quiet force dryer. Nigel is still so scared of noises...especially a loud dryer. If I could get a stand or one I can hook to his crate, I could dry him myself. I hate leaving him at the groomers all day. |
wendy58 wrote: As long as we are talking dryers too, can anyone give me the name of a very quiet force dryer. Nigel is still so scared of noises...especially a loud dryer. If I could get a stand or one I can hook to his crate, I could dry him myself. I hate leaving him at the groomers all day.
I went with Carl's suggestion of the Oster 309. It is devine! It's very quiet, quieter than a human hair drier. My dogs don't even notice it. I highly recommend it. |
Quote: It really depends on the weight of your dog if you think you can lift him or not Lucky is about 80 pounds at 7 months..I think he will be about 110 from what the vet & breeder say, so lifting him myself is out. This may be a problem for me..I'll have to price the hydolic tables but doubt hubby will be on board with that.Quote: The pink one gets used most. It's not huge, but works fine. So do you really just use the black one for line grooming so there is room for him to lay down? Quote: I went with Carl's suggestion of the Oster 309. Is this a stand dryer or a third arm? Not sure of the difference, I'll have to look that up.Quote: I just discovered the best dematting tool I have ever used. It's from petedge and is a v-shaped pin brush that just breaks the matt into tiny pieces that a slicker will pull right out. Is this a wooden brush or metal? I've read on this forum people use both. Does it matter which?Quote: As far as line brushing goes, it really depends, in my experience in your dogs coat. Asterisk has downy soft, straight fur. Wendel has a plush, coarse curly coat. Asterisk's is far easier to line brush as it easily seperates and stays put. Wendel's is more of a challenge. Sometimes I just part the fur and use my one arm to keep the fur parted and the other to brush out the coat. I've been thinking about using hair clips to keep it back From what my old groomer has told me Lucky has very thick coarse hair. I've never had an OES so not sure. My Bichon has very soft curly hair so if you can compare a Bichon to an OES then Lucky is MUCH MUCH more coarse.Quote: Just be patient when it comes to grooming. It took Asterisk a very, very long time for her to enjoy it. I figured this day would come so I started having him groomed every week since he is 10 or 12 weeks old (don't remember) so he would get used to it. The groomer says he is great, just lays there.....Thank goodness I started that really early on!!Quote: ps - as I look at the picture - my "butt comb" is lying in the hair! Not a good picture though So then do I need a different type of comb for the butt or is this the only place you even need to use a comb?
Geez, I wonder if I'll ever get this 
Lucky is getting groomed right now. I figure I need to get all this stuff this week so I can start grooming him. I also think I will fully brush him out before the groomer comes again in 2 weeks. Hopefully in the next couple of months I won't need her anymore. I appreciate all this help. I would not have known what to order if it weren't for everyones guidance and patience taking the time to explain. I really appreciate the picture from gotsheep.....visuals are great. |
| The butt comb is more our slang term for the comb. It is great for fluffing the butt when doing the flat show trim.
Mine is a Rescoe #80 - so you can look it up. I had one with a flat top (the grip area), but I love this rounded one, it is so nice to hold onto. I believe Kristine (Mad Dog) brought it up in the discussion about what combs we use to groom face tangles. I use it everywhere. Helps to pick at mats, as a double check for tangles in the legs and feet (or anywhere for that matter) after they are brushed out. For the table, most teach them to jump with the front legs up on the table, them we boost the butt up. So, only lifting half the dog. Chewie is a putz for this, and I lift his front, then his rear..... 
He lies on the pink one too, but parts hang off... Here's pictures of that - Chewie on the left, his sister Macy on the right getting groomed at a show - 
and a different show -  |
| i brush billy out completely, any knots i use conditioner as his going to have a bath. i also brush him the day before and use solid cocount oil, you really dont need much and its not oily on the coat, its like a pre conditioner. i use whitening shampoo diluted (kelko plum white is my favorite). leave it on for 5-10 minutes some whitening shampoos do dry the hair out. i then condition him, going over him with a comb giving everything time to work. rinse, duck under a towel! while he shakes, then i blast him when his in the bath. his not too good at loud noises, so just for him i put the blaster under some towels but so the vent is ok as he hates the noise. and blast till his 70% dry. then i hand dry him, as he hates the other driers. i keep billies legs on the sorter side, about 2-3" because of the bad weather. so i hand scissor his legs, tidy his face, trim the butt and let everything else grow.
his really good in the bath and will jump in even if i am not there and bark, telling me he wants a bath. i am really lucky with his grooming. |
| I'm very impressed at your questions, Cathy. Let's see what I can answer for you.
The Oster 309 is a standing drier. It has several settings, but even the warm setting is a nice, soothing temperature that won't burn the skin. It's nice to have your hands free, to comb, it also parts the hair so it's easier to brush out. The matt breaker is actually a purple plastic one with thin bristles in the shape of a V. If you hold it and part the fur just above the matt, you can gently move the brush down and it will part the matt. At only $8 it's a steal. As far as metal verse wood. I think it really depends upon your preference. I love my metal double-sided comb, though I'll admit, I'm getting a nice callous on my thumb from it. Coarse hair is actually really nice. Wende's hair doesn't matt nearly as much as Asterisk's downy coat does. I appreciate her straight hair, but I love his coarse hair. |
| tHE HYDROLIC TABLE IS GOOD FOR MANY THINGS - BUT NOT NECESSARY EVEN FOR A LARGE oes. tHEY CAN EASILY BE TRAINED TO PUT THEIR FRONT PAWS UP ON THE TABLE AND THEN WITH AN ASSIST CAN BE "BUTT" LIFTED ONTO THE TABLE.
sorry about the caps |
| Well thanks to all your replies I have my list ready.
Gotsheep....I was just looking at that exact picture of yours in the photo gallery!! I can't get over how big your dogs look on those tables
I was thinking..Lucky does put his paws up to get into my RV and I lift his back end, so it should be the same for a table I guess. OK I'm off to do some online shopping.....I'm so excited |
| When I dry my dogs, I put 2 dryers & 2 fans on them. The dryers are made for dogs so they are just slightly warm. The fans dry them while helping to cool them down from the warmth of the dryers. |
| A groomer's third arm is just a bendy pole, a lot like some desk lamps with a clip on each end. I clip one end to the edge of the grooming table and the other holds the noozle of the dryer.
I dont have a stand dryer so instead of a fixed arm blowing its like a vacuum tube. So I had to hold the noozle and use one hand to brush until I bought the third arm to hold the noozle and I use both hands for brushing. If you get a stand dryer then you dont need it. |
| Lucky got groomed yesterday. I asked her to use a 3 3/4 blade as suggested by one of the kind people that helped me here. Well when he was done he looked great, but she said she used an "E" blade. She said it is a bit longer. So....this is my starting point. He is really even all over now except the hind legs which are shaved. I will start brushing him regularly as his coat grows in but it seems to short to line brush. Maybe I'll lay him down and line brush anyway to get him used to it. I really really appreciate all the advice and guidance here. This board is great. |
| You can't line brush until you have enough hair to actually make a line. It's like trying to make a part in a crew cut otherwise! You can go through the motions to get him used to it but it isn't necessary at this point. |
| Aaawww, I just looked at your pictures of him. He looks so soft and plushy with that groom job! |
HA ha this is right after his groom....he is practically falling asleep! He always gets so tired after he is groomed!!
This is the cut using the "E" blade according to the groomer. Are you familiar with this size blade? I plan to start line brushing him while it is growing back. As Butterscotch mentioned there reallly isn't enough hair, but I figured I get him in the position and just do it quickly. As the hair grows back it will start taking some time. With any luck at all, he'll be a bit used to it
on a side note.....doesn't he have long legs??? |
| No nothing about dryers but this is how Dutch gets on the grooming table I put two plastic totes beside the table, filled with stuff to make them solid and not move and then she just steps up on them and then onto the table and comes down the same way , sure saves a lot of wear and tear on the back |
Quote: I put two plastic totes beside the table, filled with stuff to make them solid and not move and then she just steps up on them and then onto the table totes like tote bags? |
Cathy227 wrote: Maybe I'll lay him down and line brush anyway to get him used to it. I really really appreciate all the advice and guidance here. This board is great.
Excellent idea!  You can spend just about 15 minutes a day right now doing so & also "checking" his ears, feet, nails etc. You might even just use a slicker right now when going over him as it is a bit softer on the skin since he has less hair. Just remember to always brush in the opposite direction of hair growth. This will get him used to the process. By the time you get to where you need to really be brushing on a regular basis, he'll be fine with the proccess. Always remember to end the session on YOUR terms......not his. And when his hair is longer you might also consider brushing 1/2 at one time & the other 1/2 the next day if he just won't tolerate hours & hours on the table. You'll come to a happy compromise. And about the hind legs.....they soon will blend in, don't worry. |
| Wendy,
Myrlin wrapped me backwards around a door jam so i remember what it's like. We have the Double K stand dryer and it also can get an attachement with a hose and cage front to attach to a crate. It comes with an adjustable speed (which helps with the noise too), as well as warm, cool temps. I just put my guys in the old wire kennel air crate with a towel over the top or the back and attach the cage dryer attachment and let them dry. I will also put a regular fan on them too. It is more about blowing the water out of the coat......... then i boost them onto the table and dry as Dawn has stated too. |
| I think everyone has said everything. I sometimes groom half one day, half the next. On average I do 4 hours grooming a week, but Ru's coat is very thick indeed. As for bathing, Rufus shakes several times during the bath, so I do it just in my underwear which also gets soaked through
I bath Ru every 8-10 weeks, he gets his smelly areas washed with the hose every day, shampooed & hosed once a week, maybe twice, so bathing isn't a big deal. You will find your own routine but don't bath too often as it dries the hair & skin. Nobody mentioned shampoo- I'm still using Herbal Essences as he smells gorgeous after, but it's a human shampoo & probably bad for the coat. I would like a shampoo recommendation too! |
| Someone did recommend Kelko Plum White and suggested to leave it on for 5-10 minutes. Sorry...I wrote down the name of the shampoo but not who recommended it
It seems if you don't show your dog you can use any conditioner if you want but a big NO if you show. |
Cathy227 wrote: OK I've read, re-read and printed the photo essay of line grooming from Carl Linden. Ummmm I don't think I could lift my dog like he does, but what a great job he did putting that together for all of us. I am going to use it and try to start line grooming..his directions are really detailed and I love the photos. OK ......what about the actual bath? How do you bath them? Do you have a groomer do it or do you all do it your selves? Also I've heard that OES need to be brushed before the bath so they don't mat.is this true? For those of you that bath them yourselves, what about drying? Do you have a dryer? is it hot or cold? What types of shampoo do you use? Any conditioner? Where do you bath them? Inside or out? (I'm in Florida so it is still 80 here
)I want everything laid out before I actually start. I'm not sure I'll be able to do this but am willing to try. I plan to have him groomed every other week in the beginning till I get better at it. None of the groomer here have line groomed though and I'm sure the undercoat doesn't get brushed out properly so I;m anxious to get started. So far I have a list...pin brush, comb, slicker brush, spray bottle. I think for now I'll take Lucky to the vet for ears and toenails at the suggestion of another poster. I know it's a LOT of questions and I really appreciate the time you all take to help out ansering them. Thanks everyone. Sorry I missed this one but I haven't been checking the forum very often lately - busy trying to resolve things with the city and get Michele and the rest of the family home. If I can get Michele home I'll try to put together a photo essay on how to bathe a Bobtail. While I can and do bathe our dogs alone I need someone else to take the photos so right now it's a non-starter. Maybe sometime in January if things go well for us. Thanks and Cheers, Carl |
| Awww thanks Carl!!! I'm a newbie here and find your posts extremely helpful. I tried line brushing Lucky for the first time yesterday following your instuctions....it went fairly well on the one side, Unfortunately I couldn't get him to lay on the other side
I'm sure in time he will get the idea of things |
Cathy227 wrote: it went fairly well on the one side, Unfortunately I couldn't get him to lay on the other side
I'm sure in time he will get the idea of things That is such a good attitude!! they always have one side they prefer. try to see if brushing the easy side first or last makes it easier to get the other side done. It does take some trial and error. |
| I have a side issue with Asterisk, too. Her's is her right side. I don't know if she's overly sensitive there or what. Somedays, her left side looks like a perfect afro, while the right looks all kinds of crazy. |
| Tiggy's left side is always much harder to groom. She doesnt really fuss about what side she's lying on. Its just that she needs to lie on the right side for longer while I try and dematt the left side. |
How strange! Ru's left side is much harder to groom too, it seems curlier or something. Funny how that's the show side  I wonder if all sheepies have a difficult 'left side'? |
| Lucky will lay down on his left side so I can grrom the right side. He won't lay on his right side so I'm able to groom his left though. |
Cathy227 wrote: Quote: I put two plastic totes beside the table, filled with stuff to make them solid and not move and then she just steps up on them and then onto the table totes like tote bags?The hard plastic things with lids that you store stuff in. the ones I use are about 22" long and 15 " high |
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