Fear of other dogs.
I thought when he was younger that other dogs were trying to be the dominant male particuarly as he was a pup but obviously a big pup (it is often smaller dogs that bite him) Back then it was just a snap or a warning growl. However this type of behaviour is continuing with other dogs even now. It is always male dogs that go for him. There are some dogs that George used to play with as a puppy will now attack him, and they have to be kept apart if they see each other on a walk. A few months ago a hound had him pinned to the floor by his throat. He is so scared of a German Shepherd that is sometimes out when we are he will either stand completely still watching until he passes, or if Zak has seen George George will run over to me and hide behind my legs until ther owner comes for Zak. We sometimes walk in a big group, so there is George, 3 labradors, an otterhound, a spaniel and a doberman. On thursday they were running round doing their ususal thing when a Bedlington terrier came from nowhere passed the other dogs and took a chunk out of George. Luckily he only got hair and didn't break the skin. The owner quickly dissapeared as she has already had an argument with Bob about her dog biting George. George is such a softie that he submits straight away and he NEVER bites back. I know there is nothing I can do to make him tougher or to stop these dogs doing this (Bob wants to buy him a rotweiler as a body guard!!  ) but I wondered if anyone elses sheepie has this happen to them or any suggestions for what I can do.
Thanks |
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| some dogs - like some people - seem to wear a kick me sign don't they?
Is george neutered and the other males intact? In doggie world neutered males are like third class citizens. Another possibility is that George may appear to be cowering to you - but could be sending of some arrogant type doggie signal. My instructor's male has taken out after my husbands dog twice - and all B does is walk into the room. He has this swagger that some males take offense to. to us, he looks all cute and puppy like (he is 15 months old and 150 pounds  ) but to other dogs, not so much. |
kerry wrote: some dogs - like some people - seem to wear a kick me sign don't they?
Is george neutered and the other males intact? In doggie world neutered males are like third class citizens. Another possibility is that George may appear to be cowering to you - but could be sending of some arrogant type doggie signal. My instructor's male has taken out after my husbands dog twice - and all B does is walk into the room. He has this swagger that some males take offense to. to us, he looks all cute and puppy like (he is 15 months old and 150 pounds ) but to other dogs, not so much.George is neutered but only recently so and nothing has changed. As you say he must just have the arrogant look to other dogs, I just wish he would stand up for himself instead of running away |
I've had this kind of thing happen before. Once was a Rottweiler puppy brought into the vet's office that attacked one of my dogs who was just sitting there close by me on lead. In this case it was the owner's fault. She had no control of her "puppy" & had him on one of those extend-a-leads ..... unlocked. Another time it was someone leaving obedience class, with their black lab under control, heeling on lead. We were standing up, waiting to enter the classroom, again my dog was close by me & about 8-10 feet away form the outcoming "students". Lab all of a sudden took one look at my boy & lunged at him. We were all stunned! My vet said that although dogs mostly figure out "who is who" by smelling, that the hair covering our breed's face can cause a problem for other dogs. They look at them, can't see eyes right off as they may be hidden slightly by some hair & then take in the rest of the body. And they have no clue it is another dog. And if it is any consolation to you concerning the Bedlington, terriers tend to always have the upper hand with my dogs. My MIL had a Westie that totally terrorized my 3 everytime she came out here! My 3 big ones would cower in the house or the dog run.  |
| I have the problem, too. Asterisk loves all dogs, people, children, etc. But when we go to the dog park, there will always be one dog (normally an intact male), that just picks on her. She has been shoved where she has done three sixties on her rear, and been made to tumble three times.
The saving grace is that 98% of the owners are shocked and horrified of what has happened and immediately reprimand their dogs. I think that since Asterisk is such a big, submissive dog, that the other dogs feel the need to assert their dominance with her. |
| I am not sure we understand what is submissive in a dog - to a dog. What we call submissive dogs are usually submissive to people (and can at the same time be sending out - gotcha signals to other dogs) or fearful of other dogs and can be sending out kick me signals.
this is one of the problems with the pop dog psychology popularized by people like Cesar Milan. In the end I am not sure if it matters why a dog gets snarfed at. If you know it is likely to happen you need to take steps to prevent it. It may mean not so much time at the off leash park - which may make a truly submissive dog anxious anyway. I also doubt if a male being intact makes it more likely he will bother a spayed female. |
* Capt. Obvious Danger wrote: I have the problem, too. Asterisk loves all dogs, people, children, etc. But when we go to the dog park, there will always be one dog (normally an intact male), that just picks on her. She has been shoved where she has done three sixties on her rear, and been made to tumble three times.
Really? An intact male should be making kissy faces at her. After all, she's a GIRL, right?   All of the ones we meet love my girls  I've never had a problem with one. Ever. The saving grace is that 98% of the owners are shocked and horrified of what has happened and immediately reprimand their dogs. I think that since Asterisk is such a big, submissive dog, that the other dogs feel the need to assert their dominance with her. Sigh, And 98% of owners probably don't recognize that Ms Kissy Face Asterix who LOVES everyone is probably ruder than rude and needs to be heaved on her butt. And I say this knowing full well that I HAVE rude dogs. My Macy, especially, Ms Butter-wouldn't-melt-in-her-mouth-so-soft-and-sweet is one of the RUDEST dogs I have ever met. If you don't know what you're looking at you'd probably think she was just DARLING. She's not. 
Where's my favorite article again? Oh, here it is: http://www.livingwithdogs.us/articles/H ... say-hi.pdf Suzanne Clothier's "He Just Wants to Say Hi" With apologies to all dogs Macy has offended I apologize for her all the darn time.
Dogs don't run around looking for submissive dogs to terrorize. They don't feel a need to assert their dominance over a submissive dog. What's the point? The dog is already submissive. Or is she? Maybe she's just rude and the dogs are telling you that and maybe if enough of them tell her off she'll stop being so adorably rude. Come to think of it, it hasn't worked with Macy yet. But if a dog tosses her on her rude little butt I will applaud the dog and thank the owner and move on.
Kristine |
| ^^
I LOVE that article!! ALways makes me laugh. And yes rude - I forgot rude - not that I have a rude dog or two |
what a FANTASTIC article! Thank you so much for posting that  |
| Is Mim, here I cant log in right now.
Thanks for the link to that great article Kristine, it was so good I finished reading it this morning and was a bit late for work. |
I think it's a class situation, these other dogs sense the nobility in our dogs, and are jealous and want to bash the toff! 
I also think in Archies case trotting around like a horse with his head thrown back in the air all aloof is enough to antagonise some lower class dogs! |
| I don't have any real advice to give, and I'm sure you've gotten lots of good stuff here already. I just wanted to add that I agree with the poster who said that we peoples just don't always understand what is rude vs what is friendly in the dog world.
Our dear Theeps LOVED to mess with other dogs at the vet. It happened every single time, and I don't know how he did it, but he did. He'd go in, settle, and then look around the room. He'd choose another dog (across from him) and focus on him. Then he'd just quietly stare (or at least that's all I'd ever seen). I don't know what signal he used, but after a few seconds the dog he focused on would go nuts. He'd growl, snap, snarl, and try to break his leash to get across the room and go at Theeps. Of course the owner would be horrified, and pull the dog back. The techs at the vet would jump in to PROTECT our dog, and the offending dog would be "banished" to an exam room to wait in isolation. Theeps would, of course, get patted and cookies would rain down on him from all sides. All would settle, and then he'd choose his next victim. He'd often get through two, three, or even four dogs if the room was full. I suspect he learned that if he sat innocently enough and THEY attacked him he'd get more treats than he could imagine. Worked every single time... I really miss that dog. He was one smart cookie. |
traciels28 wrote: IOf course the owner would be horrified, and pull the dog back. The techs at the vet would jump in to PROTECT our dog, and the offending dog would be "banished" to an exam room to wait in isolation. Theeps would, of course, get patted and cookies would rain down on him from all sides.
All would settle, and then he'd choose his next victim. He'd often get through two, three, or even four dogs if the room was full. I suspect he learned that if he sat innocently enough and THEY attacked him he'd get more treats than he could imagine. Worked every single time... I really miss that dog. He was one smart cookie. Oh! A true Master!! 
In agility class the other night as we walked by the Terv Sybil turned her head quickly just enough to stare right at her. The Terv growled "mind your manners, bitch!" but the owner missed the provocation and verbally reprimanded the Terv. I had to quick jump in and explain Ms Rude's little trick...
Kristine |
| Wonderful article!!! I realize I have been a rude owner and Apolo needs some manners. But I love him anyway! One of the best things I've read in awhile ! |
clydal wrote: Wonderful article!!! I realize I have been a rude owner and Apolo needs some manners. But I love him anyway! One of the best things I've read in awhile !
I think its important to remember that just because we love our dogs- not everyone else (or every other dog) does. This isn't necessarily directed to anyone here- I think with big dogs we have some better sense of control of them (at least I hope we do), but I was out a week ago with Marley and "an owner" had a Pap on a retractible leash that she just let get up in my girls face in a very rude way. (like literally up in her face on her hind legs). Luckily I had control of my dog and corrected the situation before anything could transpire (Well I did look at the woman with "the stare" and suggest she control her dog ) Now I know this lady loves her dog - I just don't happen to do so - and I suspect my girl might have been less than fond of her being in her face either. |
| hi all,
Our Buffy at home is a ferocious beast shes jumps and bits and growls when we play...when i come out side and we play with other dogs at first shes very excited she runs around like crazy then she plays with her favorite dog, she does the usual jump and spin and smell the butt move then they both get a little aggressive and at first Buffy dose great, keeps up with the other dog at trying to show who's stronger never but even if the other dog barks and bites. Buffy wont bark or bite, its like she only tries to show her athleticism but she quickly gives up and rolls on her back...but then she tries to playfully bite the other dog laying down on her back... it got to the point of me running behind her encouraging her not to give up and holding her butt from rolling over lol it works she lasts longer but she still ends up getting pinned down one way or another... the whole other thing is that i know shes so much stronger then any boxer or black terrier, or a lab. She only wins when she loses her temper and just goes crazy, starts barking and biting and jumping with her front paws forward but that only happened twice. so me and my wife think shes just scary cat. but i don't want her to be mean dog or anything just want her to be able to stand for her self. |
| I assume you have read everything you can get your hands on regarding dog behavior and play between dogs.
I would make two observatiosn" I don't think biting when you are down is "playful" in dog language, I think its interpreted as aggressive (passive aggressive?) If she were my dog I would limit her play time until she has a better understanding of what she should and shouldn't do. You can't change her personality and make her into an alpha dog, but you can make sure she learns her real role and try to match her "playmates" to her personality. |
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