Sheepdogs with Tails - I'm curious...
I'm new to OES.org and was wondering, in looking through alot of the pictures I'm noticing some Old English Sheepdogs with tails. Is this something that is done in different countries or is it just a matter of your likes? I'm very curious now. Thanks in advance for your response. Judy |
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| The US standard calls for tails to be docked. In Britain and much/all of Europe tails cannot be docked by law. If you do a search of the topics you will find it is a "hot topic" |
| Sometimes in the US you will find an OES with a tail. Its almost without exception a pup that was born to dogs that were in the wild, and then rescued.
I have a friend that has a tailed OES that is a rescue. Having known only "Bobtail" OESs my whole life, her Sheepdog is always so different looking to me. But she's beautiful, and her tail is too. 
I personally prefer the traditional "Bobtail"; its what I grew up with. And I do love a giant wiggle butt! 
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Darth Snuggle wrote: Sometimes in the US you will find an OES with a tail. Its almost without exception a pup that was born to dogs that were in the wild, and then rescued.
Um, I kind of doubt that as most purebred OES, tailed or not, would survive for long in the wild, and surely we don't have packs of wild roaming OES who are producing purebred puppies that rescue somehow later finds under a bush 
In the US, the ones with tails are more likely than not mixes, though there are probably exceptions. There was one at a dog park I used to frequent that was an OES/setter mix who could have passed for an OES to the point of getting an ILP, but it was a known oops between the two aforementioned breeds and in this case the owner simply chose to dock the puppies in the litter who looked more like OES. The person who owned him had had one of his setter-like siblings as well (with a tail), but he got hit by a car so I never got to see what he looked like for myself. We placed a wonderful OES mix with a tail late last year. He had ticking on his legs and chest which suggested a dalliance with another breed, but it isn't always that obvious. Delightful temperament. Kristine |
| Or born to BYB, who didn't want to spend the time and money to dock the tail...that would be the case with our little foster girl. |
jcc9797 wrote: Or born to BYB, who didn't want to spend the time and money to dock the tail...that would be the case with our little foster girl.
Just out of curiousity, did she habitually not dock, or was it just the youngest generation that was undocked as she was getting out of the breed and dumped them on rescue? We have a prolific breeder of future rescue dogs right here in Wisconsin who also has poodles and I sometimes think she isn't sure who bred whom and just docks at a guess. We actually DNA tested one of her dogs, we just couldn't believe it was an OES. It looked like a docked doodle, but the DNA test came back OES. I have my suspicions though. The coat is nothing like you'd ever see in an adult OES either in color or texture. Super sweet dog and new owners could care less, but if she had come back a mix (she came with papers) we would have at least had recourse to get the AKC to investigate her breeder. I think we've gotten four of her dogs into rescue in the past six months or so and not all of them have had this little girl's wonderful temperament. We're getting a little, hm, annoyed, shall we say? Kristine |
Mad Dog wrote: Darth Snuggle wrote: Sometimes in the US you will find an OES with a tail. Its almost without exception a pup that was born to dogs that were in the wild, and then rescued. Um, I kind of doubt that as most purebred OES, tailed or not, would survive for long in the wild, and surely we don't have packs of wild roaming OES who are producing purebred puppies that rescue somehow later finds under a bush In the US, the ones with tails are more likely than not mixes, though there are probably exceptions. There was one at a dog park I used to frequent that was an OES/setter mix who could have passed for an OES to the point of getting an ILP, but it was a known oops between the two aforementioned breeds and in this case the owner simply chose to dock the puppies in the litter who looked more like OES. The person who owned him had had one of his setter-like siblings as well (with a tail), but he got hit by a car so I never got to see what he looked like for myself. We placed a wonderful OES mix with a tail late last year. He had ticking on his legs and chest which suggested a dalliance with another breed, but it isn't always that obvious. Delightful temperament. Kristine Kristine!!!! You're ruining my illusions! I WANT there to be herds of wild sheepies roaming the wilderness, bringing their special brand of sheepie silliness wherever the go. okay; so it DOES sound pretty unlikely, when I say it like that.  |
| They wouldn't be wild herds they would be wild packs - it doesn't sound very comforting does it?
Could you imagine 50 or so all heading your way with gusto! |
Archies Slave wrote: They wouldn't be wild herds they would be wild packs - it doesn't sound very comforting does it?
Could you imagine 50 or so all heading your way with gusto! I've had 4 heading my way, with gusto, when they thought it was dinner time & it can be sorta scary! Actually, just Mariah heading at me, full bore, when I don't get to the door to the kennel fast enough is scary! I just stand my ground & amazingly, she comes within a few inches of knocking me down but never has yet! |
One knee op to remove torn cartiledge, from one sheepie is enough for me to be wary of advancing sheepies at speed  |
Archies Slave wrote: One knee op to remove torn cartiledge, from one sheepie is enough for me to be wary of advancing sheepies at speed
Ditto  |
dairymaid wrote: Archies Slave wrote: One knee op to remove torn cartiledge, from one sheepie is enough for me to be wary of advancing sheepies at speed Ditto Count me in as running for my life from advancing sheepdog herds!!! I know too many OES owners with repaired knees.
Allison, I really can't imagine a pack of them running wild. What would they do without refrigerators to raid, counters to surf, showers to stick their uninvited noses in, toilets to curl up around and sleep...? I just can't wrap my mind around it. Such an unlikely breed to revert to the wild when they can bring the wild to your house.
' Kristine |
Mad Dog wrote: [ ...when they can bring the wild to your house.
' Kristine Boy isn't that the truth!! |
Mad Dog wrote: dairymaid wrote: Archies Slave wrote: One knee op to remove torn cartiledge, from one sheepie is enough for me to be wary of advancing sheepies at speed Ditto Count me in as running for my life from advancing sheepdog herds!!! I know too many OES owners with repaired knees. Allison, I really can't imagine a pack of them running wild. What would they do without refrigerators to raid, counters to surf, showers to stick their uninvited noses in, toilets to curl up around and sleep...? I just can't wrap my mind around it. Such an unlikely breed to revert to the wild when they can bring the wild to your house. ' ANd what about hips. !!!' I had to have mine replaced!!! sheepie accident!!!! Kristine |
| The US Standard for OES is horribly out of date with reality. Docking is painful. Phantom pain is lifelong and real. There is no rationale or justification for docking. Top breeders like Betty Ditzik will tell you (http://www.sheepdogs4you.com/tails.php) that they scream and cry. If you want to dock a tail, do it yourself or be there when it's done. I'm sure this post will get lots of zings aimed at it; probably taken down. This is 2014, people. Grow up and use your heads. |
kerry wrote: The US standard calls for tails to be docked. In Britain and much/all of Europe tails cannot be docked by law. If you do a search of the topics you will find it is a "hot topic" A hot topic, indeed, and one that I have always stayed out of. But I think I'll jump in, just this once. First of all, if you have any desire to show your dog here in North America, you need to adhere to the breed standard, which is docked tails. Since docking takes place when puppies are just days old, breeders cannot realistically evaluate the puppies for show/pet quality or personality prior to docking. Better to dock, to ensure the best chance of remaining completely within breed standard when they are old enough to evaluate. That being said, when we began our own puppy search, I knew I wanted a tailed OES. If I was unable to find a good breeder in the US or Canada who would be willing, by special arrangement, to leave the tail, I was prepared to go to Europe and find a tailed OES there. (It was that important to me, for reasons that are my own and not pertinent to this discussion.) I was fortunate to find a breeder in the US who would accommodate me, and I went into it with the full understanding that I needed to make my choice of dog before being able to really evaluate her personality, as the remaining puppies in the litter would be docked at 4 days old. This was a special arrangement, and both the breeder and I were taking a calculated chance on each other. It is a chance that most breeders are (quite understandably) reluctant to take. If you believe that a tailed pup is "almost without exception a pup that was born to dogs that were in the wild, and then rescued," then Benson is that exception. Benson is an outstanding dog, with an excellent lineage and health certifications down the line, and purchased from a good breeder. Her personality suits us perfectly, and she has given me more than I could ever have imagined since she came into our family. Benson has a tail. Her half-brother does not. And they're both gorgeous.  |
Guest wrote: The US Standard for OES is horribly out of date with reality. Docking is painful. Phantom pain is lifelong and real. There is no rationale or justification for docking. Top breeders like Betty Ditzik will tell you (http://www.sheepdogs4you.com/tails.php) that they scream and cry. If you want to dock a tail, do it yourself or be there when it's done. I'm sure this post will get lots of zings aimed at it; probably taken down. This is 2014, people. Grow up and use your heads. This is projection. I think docking should remain an option, I have no issues with someone like Diane above who wants a tail. My docked sheepdogs live a life incredibly full of activities and dog sports and attention that most dogs would envy. Harmed by docking? Not at all. It's the fears of the sort of people who believe protecting their children in a bubble is the best way to prepare them for the responsibilities of adulthood. It's new age rubbish. And docking-ban is supported by some of the same vets and people who aggressively pressure people to spay and neuter their puppies despite the proven negative impact on health and growth.  There ARE many many dogs out there actually suffering, living lives of abuse and/or neglect or simply abandoned. None of it caused by docking. There are ample real dog welfare issues you (and other docking-ban-wannabes) would be better spending time and effort on instead of chasing your phantom tails. |
| I do have to say that Amy's tail is hilarious and such a point of communication for her that I can't imagine her without it. I can also fully understand why docking is a standard and still performed (bruises, so many tail induced bruises on my knees). Amy's possession of a tail may not have been why she was abused and neglected, but I know it contributed to her coming to my home to be my dog. I just didn't care either way if she had a tail. According to the rescue group, a number of potential adopters did care, and did pass up a great dog because of her tail. Which kind of cracks me up, when you think about it, adopting rescues is like shopping at the furniture store's scratch and dent room. You don't expect to find something perfect, you expect to find something you can love. |
| Bethany, have u donated to the salvation army lately? they are expecting perfect nowadays. |
Guest wrote: This is 2014, people. Grow up and use your heads. No, it's 2009 --- this thread is 5 years old. |
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