growling and biting

Our sheepdog is about 7 months old and lately she is getting to be more and more agressive. One day we took a roll a toilet paper away from her and she growled ,snapped and bit. Same thing happened with a bone. we never had this problem before. No matter how much we scold her(by this we make a loud noise and throw a sock full of change on the floor and this gets her attention and she looks at you like she DID something wrong and she settles).
I've slapped her on her bum a few times but this just seems to make her think we are playing. She constantly nips and JUMPS on you.
We are scarred what will happen with a child. She loves people but jumps on them. No matter what we do to discourage her ,she thinks we are playing. We really dont want to get rid of her for her aggression bUT it has to stop.
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We adopted a rescue dog when she about 7 months old. After a few days of settling in, Sam also seemed aggresive. She would turn on me while on the leash and would nip at my son's backside to get him to do things. I figured out there were many things going on: she is a puppy and was overtired so she lashed out at me and she was trying to be the "alpha" over my son. She didn't have much training either. She is now a year old, she still will get "strung out" when very tired and I tell her to go to her room (crate). My son slowly achieved alpha status...he went out the door before her, and it is his job to feed and he "ok's" the starting time.
If you haven't signed up for positive reinforcement training, now is the time.
Good luck and welcome!
ps-hitting her on the bum will make her more aggresive :oops: , that has been tried here and didn't work...
Luna,

You should stop the "punishment" type of training (like throwing the coins or smacking on the butt) - that's going to make things worse.

Is your dog spayed?
Has she been to any formal obedience training (puppy class)?

You need to enroll her in a positive reinforcement class - and everyone needs to be involved in her training (she's a typical out of control - untrained sheepie by the sounds of it).


Kristen
It sounds like she may be confused about who is going to be boss and is applying for the job. Do you walk her and how much? At this age of adolesence you need to walk her until she is tired but not exausted around 2 or three blocks 3/4 to 1 mile. here is how you need to walk her: She must be at your side head at leg sort of or behind you. Walk her this way for the first 15 minutes no peeing unless absolutly necessary. No need to talk as you walk it may be better not to talk to her for the first few minutes unless she has done something good. At the end of the 15 minutes you then guide her to the potty areas at this point I take a rope or ball out of my pocket and play they deserve it at this point they have acnowlwdged that I am the boss and have followed properly. By the way when you leave the house put the leash on her inside and go out of the door first, this is reasonably important. When taking something away and they growl you need to put your fingers on the neck like the mouth of the lead dog and correct them firmly, then get in their space and tower over them, If that doesn't work lay them on the ground on their side, then tower over them if they will stay. With this dog I would not free feed her. At feeding time 2 or three times per day make her earn the food. She must sit and be calm and quiet before you give the food to her. Next I would regularly take things from her in a very calm way so she gets used to you being the leader of the pack.

In just two days, tomorrow will be yesterday, Live it like its your only tomorrow.
Sometimes, even the nicest dog can show an aggresive side, specially when you feed them a treat they like a lot or their favorite toy. You mentioned a bone, and I've had the same possesivness issues with Lennon and those rawhide baseballs... I know better lo leave him alone with those :lol: :lol:

Anyway, there are some excercises you can use to work, first of all will be obedience and positive reinforcement classes. Second, if you know an specific item is causing trouble, like a bone, those items must be taken away. In older dogs, snipping and jumping can be signs of exitement and a lack of self control. When we adopted Sofa, she was an out of control dog, she had no training and jumped and nipped at you when she wanted an item you had in your hand, or when she wanted to play. Teaching the sit!, paw and stay! command will do wonders for your dog as she will learn some self control and will realize you are in charge, it's done wonders for Sofa, she now sits (Not very quietly, she looks like a beginner skater) but does not jump when she wants something and does not nip at you any more unless she's really exited. Leadership is a great thing for a dog, they are better behaved when you relieve them from the alpha role and they will be quieter and more obidient.

With OES, consitency and leadership are required, because these guys are very smart and catch up on the family herarchy and living very quick and they love to get away with things... Don't worry, there's light at the end of the tunnel.

Good Luck!
Luna is fixed .I do have my apprehentions about obedience classes. I've talked to at least a dozen people about this and they all have been through it and all have different solutions. One says theywere told this and the other says they were told to never do this and.....
It seems that she really does not know the difference between playing and dehaving. 80% of the times she can can be such a nice dog and a total pleasure to be with.
When you play with her on the ground i usually wrestle and flip her and we have a great time.Maybe that's the problem but I cant see myself throwing a ball and wait till she comes with it ,most times this does not interest her. I walk her in the morning for a few blocks and at night go on a 2 mile walk and she is off the leasch. During the day she is tied up outside 1 or 2 times for an hour or so. Technically she should be tired.
i'm fencing in my yard this summer which is about 1/2 acre big. I'm hoping her being untied outside all day to roam will help.
If she is left alone during the day she roams the house . She has destroyed a few things but overall we thought she would be a lot worse.
Overall all she wants to play rough .
Thanks for all the tips I am trying them now with Zoe and her herding issue.

She is now trying to control the cat. I am telling her firmly NO and I am going to start making her lay on her side.

The other thing she is doing when I tell her to go outside and she doesnt want to she will lay down like she is on strike. She is huge. ANy ideas on getting her to do what she is told would be greatly appreciated. She even kindof growled when I tried to lift her to go out but I still made her do it. Thanks Lorien & Zoe
Hi Lorien! Always make sure you reward Zoe when you ask her to do something! For instance- "outside" if she goes outside, you should go out with her and reward her with a yummy- such as a small piece of cheese or a liver snack. Once she reliably goes outside on command, you can begin to use praise and pats instead of food. Your commands should always be associated with good things... even if she has been behaving badly... Ex/ herding the cat- if Zoe herds the cat, her come and lay down beside you, then reward her for doing as told. She needs to associate you with being the boss, but you also want her to do things because she wants to- not because "you tell her to" which can end up meaning she won't do them at all! It's great to hear about Zoe's training coming along!

Karen :)
Please check out the following web site:

http://sonic.net/~cdlcruz/GPCC/library/alpha.htm

Here you learn a bit about setting up boundaries with doggies. While I prefer positive reinforcement, this articles demonstrates how dogs will try to acieve top dog, or alpha dog, status unless you are in control. Read this and think about how you are handling the dog. Maybe you are sending mixed messages. Also find a positive reinforcement trainer.....you and your dog will be much happier.
Luna,

as I have posted in the past, my current oes is a rescue dog who has serious aggression issues. She infact cannot be allowed to interact with strangers or children, since she really would viciously attack them if allowed. I've been working with this girl for over two years now, and before that had my last sheepie for a full 15. I've never had any formal training or the like, but over all this time have formed a lot of opinions!

Simply put, it seems that dog training can be grouped into three types: 1) the classic old school negative discipline method. This involves, as the name might imply, punishing your dog when it does wrong and 'scaring' it into doing right.
2) the new school positive re-enforcement method. This involves a total abandonment of any negative actions or punishments (since they are supposed to make the dog aggressive) and instead relies on praise and treats to entice the dog to good behaviour.
3) the combined method, which takes up both positive and negative re-enforcement as it is needed on an individual dog and situation basis.

You'll notice both in some of the replies here and in many of the books you can buy today that #2 is the most popular right now. Personally, however, I am a strong proponent of #3.

There is no one who coddles or cuddles there sheepie more than me (and all of you are thinking "riiiiight"!) and I use positive re-enforcement as much as I can; I praise her profusely for every good deed. I have found positive behaviour particularly helpful as a preventative: if I know a situation is about to occur that usualy inspires burcwen to be aggressive, I will be positive to her in advance, petting her, praising her, and encouraging her to be a "nice dog" (that is a term I use consistantly) and such positive prevention has been surprisingly successful as preventing aggression when applied consistantly.

However, there are other times when she has simply been a bad dog and needs to know that. She is already an aggressive dog, so whether or not punishment can make her aggressive is pretty much a moot point! When she starts to growl or prepare to lunge, or when she just disobeys me, I start by using the deep "angry" voice. From there it can escalate to grabbing her firmly by the beard, making eye contact, and scolding her ("what do you think you're doing!?" said in an angry voice is my consistant term). If she starts to bite, however, or persists in disobediance, a smack on the beak is what she gets.

Now, it does make me feel bad to have to do this, but I have learned that in such circumstances there is simply no other way to communicate to her that a) what she has done is bad, b) I am the boss. It has also proven to be a successful method, and while two years ago she was getting slapped perhaps once per week, now we are down to maybe once per 1.5 months, a six-fold improvement. A while after the discipline she always comes to me to "reconcile" and that is when I will pet her beak and praise her profusely, to show that I still love her even though I had to be mean.

So, in summary, what you need most is patience and consistancy, but to that I would highly recommend a balanced combination of positive and negative re-enforcement. Your puppy needs to know not just what is good, but also what is bad. It is terribly out of fashion to punish, and it will make you feel bad, but what is the alternative? Your dog biting some neighbourhood child and then you have to put her down? heaven forbid!
Brucwen, I agree with you.
My parents dogs, no matter the breed, no matter the temperment to begin with, are always the best behaved canine citizens anyone could ever hope for.
My dad spoils the dog rotten, treats it like a human child, and that means love and affection and teaching, as well as occasional discipline. I think their current dog has had a swat with a rolled up newspaper once in his life, but he knows it is a possiblity. That dog is his best friend. You can tell the dog behaves because he loves my dad and wants to please, not in the least out of fear.
I tried the "only positive reinforcement" with Dancer since it had been some time since I had raised a puppy. I've always known old school, and never liked it, so the new way sounded much better. It wasn't. Dancer jumped, she was slow to housetrain, she barked. Once I finally got frustrated with her and yelled at her when I caught her peeing on the floor one day, she got more reliable immediately. I began to use corrections on a leash to fix the jumping problem, and I only had to tug on the leash (gently, but noticeably) twice and the problem was solved. She doesn't jump unless asked to. The barking at people when they come to the door is my own fault, I sort of encouraged it without realizing it when she was a puppy. Instead of being nonchalant about it, I petted and coddled her saying "it's ok Dancer" but my anxiety about her barking, and petting her while she was doing it, made her believe that was her job and I approved of it. Oh well, lesson learned, won't do that again. LOL
It is a fine line, but I do think that if your dog knows you love it, you establish a bond with the dog, it will want to please you, and will try it's best, and how confusing that must be when it has no idea how to NOT do something that displeases you.
There is a sheepdog union at my house and the strikes can happen at random times. Norman will lay down outside and not want to come in. We tell him to come in and he just looks at us. We tug at his collar and he goes limp, he looks like he is unconscious. We put a leash on him and he protests, the only thing that is missing are the picket signs.
So, here is what works for us; I place my foot against his backside and try to scoot him forward. (He's over 100 pounds, he's not going anywhere.) With just a little nudge, he harumphs and usually gets up and runs for the house. He probably thinks it's funny now to have us come all the way outside to get him. If that doesn't work, at least your neighbors get a kick out of it!
I like the # 3 combination also but as Willowsprite mentioned without hitting. I will however put a dog down on its side with alpha 'excuse the pun' speed and force, there is no question about who is the boss. In thsi instance the dog has to know who the boss is. I also very much agree you must use preventative measures beforehand i.e. positive training.

Have any of you guys seen Cesar Millan's 'The Dog Whisperer Show'? I basically agree with his method 90%

Cesar's Way : The Natural, Everyday Guide to Understanding and Correcting Common Dog Problems (Hardcover), by Cesar Millan, Melissa Jo Peltier

Cesar Millan's DVDs
People Training for Dogs, Cesar Millan's personal DVD!!

Dog Whisperer With Cesar Millan - The Complete First Season (2004) DVD Box Set

Dog Whisperer With Cesar Millan - Aggression (2004)
Dog Whisperer with Cesar Millan - Volume 1 (2004)
Dog Whisperer with Cesar Millan - Volume 2 (2004)
Dog Whisperer with Cesar Millan - Stories from Cesar's Way (2004)
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