In the meantime Michele has begun developing our own website, which among other things has the line grooming photo essay in smaller, lower resolution photos. It can be found at http://www.angelfire.com/trek/lindonlooniebin/home.html Please drop by and give us a look. The site has yet to include contact info but that will be done over the next few days, in the meantime contact us through forum private mesages.
Carl and Michele
|Carl (& Michelle),
Thank you for this! I am absolutely amazed! I said it before - but it bares repeating - you NEED to publish this stuff!
I love the background picture!!!
|It's awesome!!! Great job Carl and Michele!!!
Now I think I should go re-do Sky, since I know I did not accomplish the line grooming to the extent that I wanted to....
|Wow, thank you so much for posting this guide. Martin certainly is a very patient subject! I hope my boy is as calm when his coat is that long so that I may attempt to do this same thing.|
|I am so impressed. Are you sure that dogs alive in the picture.
I saved the sight under my favorites to study. My Sheepie Mardie
has a real heavy coat also. He is almost impossible to keep mat
free. How do you do it. Do they play outside at all?
|Carl and Michele,
I can't begin to tell you how helpful your posts are. If you ever decide to publish this info in a book, I'll be first in line to buy it.
The photo essay on your web site is outstanding! I'm a visual learner and have read about line brushing several times. The photos on your site have given me a much clearer idea of what needs to be done.
|just been having a look you have such different ways of grooming to us here ,its all about the coat and the shape we groom the heads and bums different ,didnt relise we do things so different excellent site though|
Thanks for the overall positive review of our website.
The intent of our line grooming photo essay was to demonstrate basic line grooming techniques for those who have never been properly shown by either their breeder, groomer or other OES families or more fundamentally don't even know about this technique for grooming long haired dogs. (Many a posting here on this forum and on other lists show that this lack of basic knowledge, or a full understanding of it, is all too frequent.) As I pointed out on the last page of the essay the end of my line grooming demonstration is the starting point for show fluffing and primping. I feel that that is well covered at the OESCA, OESOCC and other sites.
Martin's presentation is as a big, hairy, well-groomed pet. If anyone thought I was implying that he was ready to show at the end of the photo essay I apologize for not making that expicitly clear. Martin is NOT ready for show, he has not been clipped to show his shape properly, he has not had any undercoat selectively stripped out to accentuate his neck length and I haven't even trimmed his fantail for a few months so his rear end is totally out or shape for show presentation. The same goes for the closing photo of my beloved Punk, he was never trimmed for show, he was the biggest, fluffiest, hairiest OES pet imaginable.
Martin will undergo the pet to show shape transformation as the show season approaches and I'll update his photos on the website at that time.
its all about the coat and the shape
Coat and shape are indeed very important but to say it is all about the coat and shape is, I think, a bit of an overstatement. Almost any Bobtail has, or can be groomed and "nutriciened" into, a good long coat but many are bereft of the even more important soundness of underlying structure and evenness of temperment. Indeed the breed standard says that "... quality and texture of coat to be considered above mere profuseness. ..." Shaping is a bit of a touch subject as the standard technically prohibits shaping the dog "... Neither the natural outline nor the natural texture of the coat may be changed by any artificial means except that the feet and rear may be trimmed for cleanliness." What is the "natural outline" of this breed - that could be argued for many hours!
Hopefully this clears up any misunderstanding.
Thanks and Cheers
|Let me assure everyone that Martin IS indeed a real live playful fun-loving buffooning boy who adores his Daddy (ME!! Yippee to have the love of this boy and the privelige of him in our lives!!) And yes he does play outside. One of our greatest joys is to take the pack to a fenced-in dog friendly football field where they can run to their heart's content in a safe, groomed 4 acre field - yes they come back full of grass, leaves and filthy footed but it is worth every second of work before and after to see them so happy and playing with such exuberance.
Equally so though, make no mistake that Martin didn't just come programmed to be groomed for many hours on end. We were very fortunate in that his breeder had given him a good introduction to breeding so when he got here at 4 months he "knew the deal" for 20-30 minutes. Even so he tried to lie to us the first few times we put him on the table as he pretended to be shocked about this new torment I was imposing upon him. He quickly learned I wasn't buying it when I told him Grandma Val wouldn't like him fibbing that way!! From there routine, persistence and loving care and training have extended grooming sessions with our big boy to the point he'll accept almost any amount of grooming.
Martin will try to avoid grooming when he sees me preparing the grooming table and tools. He does a really good "bodymeld" with the floor requiring that I pick him up and carry him to the table or at the very least leash and walk him to the table. There are some days I swear that if I went to the basement I'd see his feet, legs and belly hanging through the floor/ceiling below as he does this
Once on the table though he settles in immediately and will often drift in and out of a nap. The inevitable matts and tugs keep him from totally dropping into REM sleep, for now!! Keeping him in this shape is simply a matter of routine and devotion. There are times I "fall behind the power curve" but I don't let it get too out of hand. Even at his worst after perhaps 10 days he can always be brought up to a good standard in 2 evenings of work, 2-3 hours per evening.
Like all big projects, grooming these guys is one step at a time. Learn the basics, apply them carefully and diligently and in quite short order you'll have your dog in the standard of coat you want.
Thanks and Cheers
|Thanks for the great pics Carl and Michele. The line grooming is exactly what we do for Merlin. Tho lately Merlin's dad has been too busy with work and he has had to go to the groomers. I get too itchy to groom him all myself I can take about 20 minutes of it and then have to stop. This "line" grooming is the way we had to groom out beloved Chow, Chelsea. Yes we DO like dogs with LOTS of fur Chelsea was MUCh easier to groom, chow's bottom legs and face are not as furry as our beautiful sheepies.|
|WOW! Carl, thanks for the detailed photos and descriptions. This will be a great help for all of us who aren't familiar with line brushing. I'll be looking forward to the next edition "show brushing, fluffing and primping".
|i sorry if you have misread my post i wasnt saying anything about the grooming i was saying we seem to do things a little different and of course i wasnt saing all there is to it is the coat and the shape but i ws talking about grooming i was just saying we seem to do it alittle different and i wasnt trying to ad a over stament ,am new to this side of the grooming myself and i was just saying we seem to do it a little different (the dog in the pic isnt mine ) so am sorry if you thought it was a misunderstanding just trying to ad to the thread|
|Absolutely fantastic information... thanks Carl!|
|Thanks for the informative photo essay. That was a lot of work for you to do.|
|Carl, one question I've been meaning to ask... well... maybe a couple!
First of all, how often do you do a complete grooming like this on your OES? You had mentioned that sometimes ten days may go by, but I'm guessing that is not the norm.
Also, when preparing for a show, how often can I groom them completely like that without removing too much undercoat?
Sky already needs to be done again. She needs her legs bathed, and a full brush through. I still haven't decided for sure if we can go through with showing her on the 19th of February, I don't know if her coat is ready, and I have been finding it difficult to have training time with her because of the weather, training in the house is hopeless because Dancer and Sky just want to play, not focus.
I tried the line grooming on my baby last night and it was so easy. It also seemed to take less time.
When we got done, she looked great!!!!!!
The 10 day interval was a maximum time I recommended between a complete ear clean and plucking on the ear care thread. (I'm planning to do a photo essay on ear cleaning sometime in the next few weeks and will post it on our website and offer it to Ron for forum use as well when it is complete.)
Our Bobtails should get a complete grooming twice a week (ok every 4 days) but it tends to be a bit less than that of late. (Four long haired dogs in full show coat tend to get a bit daunting occassionaly and I get a bit lazy from time to time.) I need to get back to a better routine!
If you have good brushes and combs there is no problem with removing undercoat when grooming at this frequency. The big culprits for inadvertantly stripping the undercoat are using pin brushes with "headed" pins (ie the little ball at the end of the pins), excessive use of combs and slicker brushes and finally dematting. The best way to avoid all of these potential problems is frequent brushing with good brushes. If they are brushed regularly they won't matt very much and so you won't be removing a lot of matts. Similarly you won't need to use combs or slickers on a well groomed coat. And also remember grooming is a gentle activity, don't be aggressive or too fast with the brush strokes. If you encounter a matt you need to take the time to coax it apart rather than repeatedly brush it apart. (Let me know if anyone needs help in how to remove matts.)
Hope this helps.
And also remember grooming is a gentle activity, don't be aggressive or too fast with the brush strokes. If you encounter a matt you need to take the time to coax it apart rather than repeatedly brush it apart. (Let me know if anyone needs help in how to remove matts.)
*Puts hand up frantically waving* Me! Me!
We join Willowsprite on looking forward to your suggestions
on the management of matting in the OES coat.
As we are in the mist of a Blizzard (25 + inches of snow),
we know we will have time to coax the mats out !
Our sweet sheepie who loves snow, was shocked, shocked at
the conditions. We don't have the heart to tell him,
he may not see the ground until spring !
Your site was wonderful, my husband and I looked at it together and learned so much. Thank you for taking the time and thought to put this together. Great job!
Stormi and co.
|Carl and Michele - you are awesome! Thank you for posting the grooming pics. Although I've had a few sheepies before - I've had them professionally groomed. However I've started off on a different foot this time around with our new pup (Farley). Poor babe is suffering through my learning how to do this.
Question ... or rather ... could you provide some guidance for me. Farley is a handsome boy (IMHO and I hope to show him maybe in the Fall or next year. Is there anything I should (or should not) be doing to prep his coat/attitude now with this goal in mind?
Thanks for your kind words of support. And full support for taking on the challenge of grooming Farley yourself. It is such a wonderful bonding and together time not to mention how relaxing it can be for you when things are going well!
Farley does look handsome and based on your photos he appears to be about 4 months old. Showing could begin soon - junior puppy is 6-9 months! Actually showing early helps gain ring experience while having some leeway for poor ring manners, judges often forgive a lot of behaviour in puppies that is totally unacceptable in an adult dog whether or not he/she was shown as a puppy.
The biggest single thing you can do to prepare Farley's coat for showing is to train him for grooming (inclusive of bathing) and keep it clean and matt free. I know this sounds trite, I don't mean it to be, but you would be surprised how many people think that " .... showing is 'x' months away so I don't have to get him ready for a 'x months less 1' ".
A well groomed coat both grows faster and to a better quality and enables the skin to "breathe" thus being healthier. Healthier skin grows better coat ... and so goes the circle. All too frequently time runs out, the coat is a mess and in dematting the dog right before the show so much coat is lost that the dog's ring presentation is compromised.
Beyond that make sure Farley gets a good quality large breed puppy food with a good supply of omega-fatty acids for skin and coat condition either in the food or through a supplement. I like the Linatone food supplement as it is of good and steady quality, readily available and doesn't upset stomachs as some additives can. I have added approximately 1/4 - 1/2 can of salmon with the oil once a week as a supplement at times but have found that this can be "touchy" resulting in an upset stomach.
When bathing Farley use a good quality shampoo, I have posted on shampoos before, be judicious in using conditioner and make extra certain all the shampoo and conditioner is thoroughly rinsed out. Dry his coat thoroughly to prevent firstly excessive wavyness verging on a curly coat and secondly matting. Be careful not to soften the coat!
Finally, when it comes, be diligent in grooming to keep up with the "blowing coat" transition to his adult coat. (I have also posted on that.)
As to his "attitude" get him out and socialized as much as possible including puppy classes and a show handling class. This will expose him to other dogs so that come "show time" he will not be distracted by all the activities, people and the new experience of being singled out and made the "center of attention".
Finally just a friendly word of caution here. If you just want the fun of a show once in a while go ahead at local shows but if you want to seriously "campaign" Farley take the time and effort to get Farley objectively evaluated by your breeder or others of the local Bobtail show community. (Your breeder is by far the best resource here as a reputable breeder will be totally honest and would only recommend showing a legitimate show prospect. Campaigning a dog with fault(s) is detrimental to their reputation so they are careful to recommend only good potential prospects be shown.) Showing is a lot of effort and is also quite costly so you want to be sure you have a reasonable chance of success up front. And it is no fun giving point after point to the competition. While he looks attractive you need to be sure he has the underlying structure to meet and compete against the breed standard and his competition.
As I have answered questions on this thread I have thanked individuals for their kind words of approval. The line grooming photo essay was a lot of work for Michele to put together onto our website. I'm quite sure I had the easier part in grooming Martin - which happens routinely anyway - and writing the text for the thread and captions. My thanks to Michele for such a lot of support and work without which this would not have succeeded at all, let alone to the extent it seems to have.
Numerous other forum members have posted words of appreciation without actually adding a question. Since they haven't been thanked directly I'd like to publicly thank them for their kind words about this project as well. I'll continue to try to share my experiences and knowledge as time goes by. I have several other photo essay ideas and as they are periodically completed I will post to the forum letting you know when they are available and offer them to Ron to host them here in a high resolution format subject to space availability.
Thanks to all
|Your a class act Carl! Thank you soooo much for the super info!
Farley got groomed last night. He needed a nap when I was finished but he looked so handsome - FOR ABOUT 5 MINUTES!
| i was wondering how in the world you kept your OES still for so long??LOL!!!brushing Mickey right now is like a wreslting match!!i cant imagine being able to keep him laying down for that long.like i said just to brush him its like the WWF!!!LOL!!he is 10months now,and i just know once he matures more he will be able to stay still,well atleast thats what im hopeing.|
Im w/ everyone else here your essay took alot of work and I want to Thank you for taking so much time in the spirit of helping us out here to make our furry babies look like they just got out of the ring.It was very nice of you guys.Thank you
Just in case you missed it, yesterday I posted under the "can you get them to enjoy it" thread where I discussed some of the techniques I have used to train our boys to accept grooming. Hopefully you will find something of use for Mickey and yourself in that post.
No matter what though I highly recommend that you do not "give in" and simply wait for Mickey to settle down with age. YOU are Alfa in your pack and while you must always be loving and patient when training and interacting with Bobtails you cannot afford to let Mickey get his way on something so important. If he "wins" this one he will start feeling empowered and an OES with a strong alfa drive is a real challenge. Believe me Virgil Tiberius is exactly that! If I didn't constantly re-inforce my position as our pack's Alfa-male, Virgil would absolutely run the show. He will usually listen to Michele - usually, but even so tends to order Michele around, in her words "... like a drill sergeant". He totally dominates all the other dogs and as to our two-footed kids (aged 9 and 10) they don't even register on his authority "list" so he totally disregards what they say. If Virgil even acknowledges them it has been a good day! As it is there are times when you see him look at me and know he is thinking "... Okay, you're alpha Dad and I won't challenge you today. But tomorrow, maybe tomorrow things will be different Dad. Let's wait and see tomorrow...."
|LOL Carl should have a topic on the forum
have been digging and searching for hours trying to find posts
I belong to a different type of forum that allows you to click on a persons name and find all posts that person has made, is that possible on this forum also?
I have so many questions, and know most of them have been answered
in here somewhere its just trying to find them all out of the 19 pages per topic LOL
like the pin brushes, how do you know if its a quality brush? and slickers, yes or no? and stripping the coat what is that? lol
all of the info on this forum is priceless! there is nothing better than learning from people who have had actual long term experience
I belong to a different type of forum that allows you to click on a persons name and find all posts that person has made, is that possible on this forum also?There are 2 ways to do that. It depends on what you want for results on which way you'll choose.
The easiest way is to click on the "Profile" button at the bottom of any member's post, or by clicking on the member's name anywhere it appears as a link (who's online, member list, listing of posts). On that page there is a link in the middle of the page that says: "Find all posts by <username>". If you click on that, it will, yes you guessed it, give you a list of all of that member's posts. However, it is in a fixed format, and only gives you the first few lines of each post.
The second way is a little more flexible. Click on the search link at the top of any page, and type in the member's name in that appropriate box. Select any keywords you want to include to narrow the search. Select "Posts" from the "radio button" selector of posts or topics. Select the number of lines you want to see from each post. (Selecting "All Available" gives you the entire post with all of its formatting). Click Submit.
|Wow Carl, are you going to be in Florida any time soon ! I finally got a dematting brush for Samantha and have been working with her daily for about 15 minutes....she hates it. Not a girly girl !|
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