New Member's Pup Search/ Anyone familiar with this breeder?
I am new to this board so let me introduce myself. My husband and I live in Palm Springs, CA and our family currently is composed of 3 Neardie Rescues. We adopted Janey (now 6.5 years old) directly from BONE (Beardies and Others Needing Emissaries) and then we adopted Roxy (now 7.5) and Ziggy (now 5) on behalf of BONE. We came to terms with the fact that while we sucked at the fostering part of rescue, we excelled at the forever home part. 
When I was 16, I got my first OES puppy. We shared a wonderful 10 years together. In the nearly 40 years since, my dogs have always been rescues - and not surprisingly, most have all been shaggies too! Sure, there has been a Chesapeake Bay Retriever, White German Shepard, Akita and a Rotty too, as I got quite interested in Obedience trials - but there have been far more shaggies of various colors, sizes and parentage. All the dogs in my life have been rather wonderful, each with their very own personality. But, something was always incomplete and I have come to the conclusion that after all these years, it was finally time to raise a puppy for myself. It will be so interesting to finally have a dog who has a history and a heritage that I will know - and not have to guess (as much) about what is causing a particular behavioral or health issue. So that is the long story about how I have gotten Sheepy Puppy Fever! Here is how my search has progressed: I emailed Tarja this evening about breeder referrals in California, Nevada and Arizona. I have also been in contact with Mary Ketring of Wild-N-Woolly Old English Sheepdogs in Yucaipa, CA. She currently has pups which will be available in about a month. I thought I had originally found her name on the AKC site, but I don't seem to be able to find it now. So, I am wondering if anyone is familiar with her or her dogs. I have read enough here to make me a little nervous about not doing enough research about a breeder. I am looking for a breeder within 700 miles of Southern California, as I prefer to tour the breeder's home and have the opportunity to see things for myself. I would like to find a dog that can be shown, though my primary interest is obedience/agility and a happy family member. I am also a little gun shy about having a dog shipped by plane. Once one has lived with an Akita who was terrified of plane sounds... well, let's just say, I want to be able to avoid that experience forevermore! Thanks in advance for any and all information you can offer. I have been quite impressed reading the forums and am thrilled to be able to ask questions of a community who have such an broad range of expertise with this breed.  |
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| Welcome to the forum from St. Louis!!!
I have 2 OES's (Pearl a rescue and Heart, my Suri Cruz pup...you know,,,,really pampered????) and a Beardie, Cosmo from a BYB. I love both the breeds so I can surely see why you would want a combo~~~~~~... 
I was where you are about 1 1/2 years ago so I can certainly understand your concerns. I am not farmiliar with that breeder, but then I am a newbie too  ----
I CAN tell you that this is the best place for you!!! There are so many sheepie lovers, sheepie breeders and sheepie activists (meaning their sheepies are active in Obedience, Rally, Agility, Herding etc...) I am sure you will be getting a lot of responses to your question.. Good Luck, keep us posted...oh!!!! and I would love to see pics of your neardies... and your new baby, when he/she finally comes!!!!! |
| welcome from fla .. this is a great site i though i knew so much owing oes for over 30 yrs.. but since on this site i have so much more insite of this breed.. good luck on your search for a pup.. many pics please!! |
QuailTrail wrote: I emailed Tarja this evening about breeder referrals in California, Nevada and Arizona. I have also been in contact with Mary Ketring of Wild-N-Woolly Old English Sheepdogs in Yucaipa, CA. She currently has pups which will be available in about a month. I thought I had originally found her name on the AKC site, but I don't seem to be able to find it now. So, I am wondering if anyone is familiar with her or her dogs. I have read enough here to make me a little nervous about not doing enough research about a breeder.
As of my most current OESCA roster (2007-2008) Mary Ketring is not a member of the Old English Sheepdog Club of America. As for seeing her name on the AKC site, you might have possibly seen her name listed in the litters for sale area. Anyone with an AKC registerable litter is permitted to list their puppies there. My suggestion would be to wait on a response from Tarja & in the meantime, check the breeder referral page of the OESCA website. The breeders listed there (by state) have met specific criteria to be listed on that page. Now this does not mean there are not other responsible OESCA breeders out there that are not listed on this page. Some of those breeders just preferred not to be listed on the breeder refferal page. This particular page was established to guide people searching for an OES pup towards reputable breeders via the internet in hopes of it taking less pone calls and/or e-mails to connect with a reputable breeder. |
sheepieshake wrote: Welcome to the forum from St. Louis!!!
I have 2 OES's (Pearl a rescue and Heart, my Suri Cruz pup...you know,,,,really pampered????) and a Beardie, Cosmo from a BYB. I love both the breeds so I can surely see why you would want a combo~~~~~~... I was where you are about 1 1/2 years ago so I can certainly understand your concerns. I am not farmiliar with that breeder, but then I am a newbie too ----I CAN tell you that this is the best place for you!!! There are so many sheepie lovers, sheepie breeders and sheepie activists (meaning their sheepies are active in Obedience, Rally, Agility, Herding etc...) I am sure you will be getting a lot of responses to your question.. Good Luck, keep us posted...oh!!!! and I would love to see pics of your neardies... and your new baby, when he/she finally comes!!!!! Thanks so much. I am away from home now but will post some pics of the Neardies when I return in a couple of weeks. Thanks again for the encouraging words. |
suzptcruise wrote: welcome from fla .. this is a great site i though i knew so much owing oes for over 30 yrs.. but since on this site i have so much more insite of this breed.. good luck on your search for a pup.. many pics please!!
Thank you! Yes, as soon as we add a new baby in fur suit I will post some pics. Thanks for the welcome! |
ChSheepdogs wrote: As of my most current OESCA roster (2007-2008) Mary Ketring is not a member of the Old English Sheepdog Club of America. ...My suggestion would be to wait on a response from Tarja & in the meantime, check the breeder referral page of the OESCA website. ..Now this does not mean there are not other responsible OESCA breeders out there that are not listed on this page. Thank you so much. I did just as you have suggested and have found one very promising new baby and the potential of another litter in NorCal, as well as a future litter due in a couple of months. So yours was truly terrific advice. Thank you so much for looking up the other breeder for me. I haven't heard back from her since I asked a number of very pointed questions about the Dam and Sire; health; etc. - though perhaps that is only because I told her I was out of town today. The great news is that there are at least several litters out there, one of which is apparently fairly noteworthy. Thank you, thank you, thank you.... you gave me great advice! I really appreciate it. ~Q |
| Hi,
Just wanted to add my 2 cents worth and say that I really, really do think it is worth your while to wait for Tarja to contact you. It might take a little longer, but in the end, you are more likely to end up with a healthy, happy pup. Since you are interested in possibly showing and obedience and agility, this might be even more important. The last time I was looking for puppies, I stumbled across this site and was too impatient to wait for Tarja's contact (my bad). I found another breeder on my own. While I love Sophie and Sherman, I regret giving money to their breeder and helping to keep breeders who have no business producing litters doing just that. |
tgir wrote: Hi,
Just wanted to add my 2 cents worth and say that I really, really do think it is worth your while to wait for Tarja to contact you. It might take a little longer, but in the end, you are more likely to end up with a healthy, happy pup. Since you are interested in possibly showing and obedience and agility, this might be even more important. Thank you. Wise words indeed. Actually, I am in touch with someone from the AKC list who has a Champion that did well this year in both confirmation and obedience. I think the issue is whether I will be willing to invest the quantity of money I am guessing she will be asking for her pups. I have no idea what she is asking for her puppies, but I am guessing they are very expensive. Keep your fingers crossed for me! Long gone are the days when I bought my show quality puppy for $350!
I do understand what you mean about waiting for the very best dog. After 30 years of working with rescues, buying a puppy that is perfectly suited for the goals I wish to accomplish and has the right temperament is essential to me. I just didn't know how to go about finding it, until I came here and ChSheepdogs gave me some sage advice. I am still looking forward to speaking with Tarja. And, I really appreciate your input. Thank you! |
Welcome! Another local!  I'm in Cathedral City.
You'll have to join us for "SheepieFest of the West" in March (In Palm Springs!) Good luck with your puppy search! |
Pepsi's Mommy wrote: Welcome! Another local!
I'm in Cathedral City. You'll have to join us for "SheepieFest of the West" in March (In Palm Springs!) Good luck with your puppy search! Hey, how wonderful! Nice to know there are (uh....how many OESs do you have??) others in the neighborhood. I can't believe you found that beauty in the CC dog pound. That was a nasty place. I am so happy they have converted to the Animal Campus in Thousand Palms with Animal Samaritans. I know a woman who works at the Casino that has two new pups too. And those guys that got that beautiful white capped male from SoCalOESRescue a couple of years ago. How many others are in the desert? Btw, I *love* that picture of your dogs in the pool .... too cute! |
| I have two OES, Rags and Pepsi.
It sounds like you already know Randi, who also has two. She is the one who works at the Casino. They are not so new anymore. I believe they are both 2 year old now.
Randi and her boyfriend live right down the street.
I actually met Randi when I did a home visit for her for a rescue, she then decided to get puppies instead. There is another guy who used to own a shop in CC that also own a Sheepie, I have his number somewhere. There are a whole bunch of rescued dogs out here in the Desert, but I have been unsuccessful in contacting the owners. There is an older woman I was in contact with in Palm Desert. They are out here though. We should arrange a get together at the Palm Springs Dog Park soon. Randi and I usually met up there a couple of times a year. But she usually goes too early for me. I was very lucky to find Pepsi at CC Pound!! You are right, that place was horrible. Rags I rescued from a woman in Tehachapi. Our little mutt Lacey was rescued from the Coachella Valley Animal Campus in Thousand Palms. That place is beautiful!! Thanks about the picture.
Again Welcome!! |
| Welcome. I am also in the Southern California desert...High Desert. I also have 2 OES, although my older one is a breeder rehome and has some issues. We can deal with her, but we have only had her 9 months and I hope to correct some of her unwanted behaviors.
I would talk to as many people as you can about your perspective breeder. Check OESCA's breeder referal and don't expect an AKC registered breeder to always be a good breeder. Puppy mills have AKC registered dogs. Your breed's club is the best place to start. You may also want to attend a local dog show. Good luck and don't forget to post pictures when you find your new furball. |
Pepsi's Mommy wrote: I have two OES, Rags and Pepsi.
It sounds like you already know Randi, There is another guy who used to own a shop in CC that also own a Sheepie, There are a whole bunch of rescued dogs out here in the Desert, There is an older woman I was in contact with in Palm Desert. They are out here though. We should arrange a get together at the Palm Springs Dog Park soon. Actually, Randi and my husband work together. My sheepie-lust was rekindled because Randi emailed a photo of her pups to my husband, who forwarded the image to me. He didn't understand that I had a sheepie as a teenager and that one never *really* can move on from sheepies. So, indirectly, it is all Randi's doing that we will be picking up our new puppy next week! I think I have tried to contact the OES Rescue at least 3 times, to no avail. I am glad to hear that they are active in the desert. It warms my heart. This pup and my first are the only two dogs I will raise from pups - all the rest of the wonderful furries in my life have always been rescues. One of the littermates of our pup, will be living in Idyllwild. They may even have an OES currently, as well. So there is another one! I am happy to meet you at the Dog Park. I have three Neardies that like to go, on occasion (okay, they really like the car ride best!) They don't like to play ball, they prefer to pack up and chase their "brother" and then pummel him (to the horror of onlookers who have been overheard commenting, "Oh my, look what they are doing to that little dog!") |
wendy58 wrote: Welcome. I am also in the Southern California desert...High Desert.
I would talk to as many people as you can about your perspective breeder. Check OESCA's breeder referal and don't expect an AKC registered breeder to always be a good breeder. Puppy mills have AKC registered dogs. Your breed's club is the best place to start. You may also want to attend a local dog show. Good luck and don't forget to post pictures when you find your new furball. Thanks for the welcome! Ahhhhhhh high desert = 10 degrees cooler! Lucky you
Thank you for the excellent advice. In fact, I followed each of your suggestions. I have indeed spoken with many people who know the breeder. I started with the folks that had signed an ethics agreement with the national club. I learned a *whole* lot about the dream of "breeding for the betterment of the breed." Though I did find someone who this applies to - 5 litters in 30 years in the breed.
I did attend a show last weekend. I tracked down a friend of a friend who has been a breeder/owner/handler for the past decade. I have been lucky enough to have several people be refreshingly candid with me about the realities involved with breeders/breeding and the DNA gamble. I *do* have some photos of the new baby and tried to post them this evening. Sadly, I was unsuccessful. But I will reread the instructions and see if I can post them tomorrow. Thank you again for such a warm welcome! .... and for such great advice. |
| Congrats on finding a puppy.
So what are you getting a male or female? I am so excited to have another sheepie nearby. I am going to send you a private message. |
| The new furkid is a girl. |
| Congrats!
I look forward to meeting her and you. |
| It is so smart to get a puppy from a reputable breeder. You will not regret the time or money. |
Quote: It is so smart to get a puppy from a reputable breeder. You will not regret the time or money.
Definitely. We got our first well bred OES pup from an OESCA breeder about a month ago and are thrilled with his temperament (at least for now ). He flew to us from California too! It's NOT that we love our girls any less but we're hoping he'll have fewer health issues...
Congratulations on your baby girl! Umm... we need pictures |
jcc9797 wrote: It is so smart to get a puppy from a reputable breeder. You will not regret the time or money.
Wise words indeed! I have already learned so much from this breeder/owner/handler. When I found someone with 30 years in the breed, whose purpose was to breed a champion for herself it just seemed like the right match for me. All my interest in markings were replaced by wanting a sound dog. And I am well aware that there are no guarantees. Anything can happen despite all due diligence. In this case, there have been a number of people involved with a great deal more experience than I will ever have in selecting the sire and dam for the litter. I can hardly wait! Thanks again. |
6Girls wrote: Quote: It is so smart to get a puppy from a reputable breeder. You will not regret the time or money. Definitely. We got our first well bred OES pup from an OESCA breeder about a month ago and are thrilled with his temperament (at least for now ). He flew to us from California too! It's NOT that we love our girls any less but we're hoping he'll have fewer health issues...Congratulations on your baby girl! Umm... we need pictures Thanks so much. Yes, I already have pics, I will try to post some later today when I will have a bit more of an opportunity to focus. Congratulations on your new baby too! How exciting. Do you mind if I ask which breeder your pup came from? And I am guessing you had a chance to be online and post something because it was during the puppy nap time! Okay... now I must return to my puppy proofing project!
Cheers for now. ~q |
| Thanks
Quote: And I am guessing you had a chance to be online and post something because it was during the puppy nap time! He's here with me in my puppy proofed workroom right now. He's crate trained too which allows me get a few things done.  Quote: Do you mind if I ask which breeder your pup came from?
Diana Caswell is his breeder... she's near San Diego. He was definitely worth the wait. Looks like you've got some pictures pending approval... |
6Girls wrote: Diana Caswell is his breeder... she's near San Diego. He was definitely worth the wait.
Ah, great dogs from Cottonwood. Lucky you! I have a friend who has an ongoing relationship with that kennel. Really pretty dogs. Is that him in your avatar? That puppy is precious! |
| You definately have a gorgeous little pup there! Congrats! |
| Aww!! She's just lovely!
I bet she had a great time in the garden.
How is the puppy proofing coming along? Waiting is the hardest part but it won't be long before you have your new baby in your arms 
Yes, my avatar is currently Bumble... if the registration goes through he'll be "Cottonwood Bumbles Bounce But Can They Fly" . Take LOTS of pictures
because they grow so fast. I always look back and wish I had taken more... |
avicayia wrote: You definately have a gorgeous little pup there! Congrats!
Thank you! |
6Girls wrote: Aww!! She's just lovely!
I bet she had a great time in the garden. How is the puppy proofing coming along? Waiting is the hardest part but it won't be long before you have your new baby in your arms Yes, my avatar is currently Bumble... if the registration goes through he'll be "Cottonwood Bumbles Bounce But Can They Fly" . Take LOTS of picturesbecause they grow so fast. I always look back and wish I had taken more... We spent almost 4 hours watching them romp through the garden and then nap. They spent lots of time napping and a whole lot of time "romping" on us and on their siblings. I am going to rotate through some of those pictures this week. They are difficult to shoot since they move so fast. I should have taken my film camera instead. Well, I think Puppy Proofing begins with removing the furniture you want to protect; getting all the dangerous stuff put away and then the rest is a work in progress. All the carpets are being removed this weekend, cords/cables will all be dressed - I had been meaning to do that anyway. And some furniture that has been in the family for years is going to spend several months in the garage! I love Bounce But Can They Fly.... very cute name! Okay... I am off to meet a new OES.org friend at the dog park. Enjoy! |
| I haven't read all the posts in this thread, but just a word about Mary kitring- My dog Stella is from Mary and I couldn't be happier. I got Mary's name from someone on this board with the recommendation that Marys pups are healthy, loving and beautiful- and that's EXACTLY what I got with Stella.
When the day comes for me to get another pup- I'll call Mary without hesitation. Mark |
| Hey Mark.
Stella is a lovely pup, indeed. I am glad to hear Mary is breeding happy, healthy dogs. Thanks again! ~q |
| I would guess this is all "water under the bridge" by now but I have the contact info for Mary Ketring. I got a wonderful OES puppy (Micka) from her last year. Her animals are fabulous. Her number is [edit: no phone numbers/links pls]. You will find Mary to be just the kind of person you would want to get you new doggy from!!
Daniel |
| For future reference of anyone else seeking breeder information in Southern California: We got our first OES from Carla Martinez in San Diego [contact via shaggysandiego.com] and were extremely impressed by her dogs and professionalism. We highly recommend her. Our second OES came to us under unique circumstances - a military family in san diego had purchased a puppy from Mary Ketring, but put him up for adoption on craigslist because their daughter "had allergies." The family had only had him for about a week so I was concerned that they would be violating an agreement with the breeder. They assured me that they had contacted Mary, so I was torn between being skeptical of the family or of Mary's breeding practices. We gladly adopted the pup and I began to do my research using the paperwork the family had provided. I couldn't find a website for Wild-N-Woolly, but did find Mary on facebook. She was completely blind-sided by the news and extremely concerned about the puppy's current state. After talking back and forth I can easily say that Mary is a very responsible breeder that cares about the health and happiness of her puppies. I recommend her as a breeder. |
| We have always bought our OES pups from mary ketring, her pups are of excellent quality. i don't think she produces enough litters to afford high cost references, she breeds to perpetuate and preserve the breed, not for profit. she is the best! |
| I am familiar with Mary and her dogs. I got an OES from her about 3 1/2 years ago. This is my 3rd sheepdog and by far the best. We had to drive down from No. CA to get the pup and Mary was very helpful. I would recommend her. My groomer says "Panda" is the best looking OES she has ever seen. |
| As the OP, I feel compelled to comment. I've learned a great deal in the nearly four years since my original search began. I've read everything I can get my hands on about conformation and breeding, I've attended a National Specialty and had my hands on dozens of Sheepies trying to learn as much as possible about the breed. As mentioned, I have 3 aging mixed-breed rescues and one OES who was carefully bred, by a responsible breeder. She bred the litter for herself. She has kept a puppy from each litter she bred. She does the testing on both the sire and the dam prior to breeding and tested the puppies for both vision and hearing, prior to placement. My rescues have varying health and behavior issues that I signed on for when I adopted: hip dysplasia, deafness, fear biting, etc.. My sheepdog is a bon vivant and extraordinarily sturdy. But most importantly, the 5 generations of dogs on her pedigree have had clean health backgrounds. It doesn't guarantee that some health oddity won't surface in the future, but it is a whole lot less likely than in random breeding. In the four years since my original search, I've come to the conclusion that if you are are not going to buy from a responsible breeder who is a member of the Old English Sheepdog Club of America (OESCA) then you should adopt a sheepie from Rescue. I realize that many of you own dogs from people who are breeding puppies and feel that your dogs are sound in every way. But why gamble when you could be saving a dog who is desperate for a home? Breeders who are members of OESCA are bound by an extensive ethics code, that both they and their peers take very seriously. They do the medical testing and have for decades. In California, the OESCA breeders i know have been responsibly breeding for more than 40 years! They have the benefit of a depth of national resources an isolated person doesn't even know exists. My opinion in this matter is just that: my opinion. I am in no way suggesting that any dog by any breeder is flawed. What I am saying is that should you opt to gamble and not buy a dog from an OESCA breeder, I hope you will consider rescuing a sheepdog from one of the many OES Rescue groups throughout the US. And good luck! ~n OESCA Breeders Directory http://www.oldenglishsheepdogclubofamerica.org/breeder_referral/breeder_directory.php |
| QuailTrail, excellent response. You are a perfect example of someone who has done their homework AND LEARNED FROM IT. Listening to folks who know what they're talking about and heeding their well thought out advice takes and open mind and most here know that's not as common as we'd like. So I would like to commend you. Vance |
| Thanks Vance! It's amazing how much I've learned, yet know so little!  |
| I joined a bit after you and I'm a bit more active but I feel the same way! Vance |
| Well I agree on most things but as for being a member of OESCA or any other one I don't. We got Georgi from http://www.macopabobtails.co.uk/ and these are what you call a decent breeder. We have been show just over 6 months & spoke with lots of people who breed & have great dogs but are not a members of the breeders group in the UK Kennel club ( not the OESD ). They all know each other and all are thrying to improve there breed. Val & Mel are 2 great examples. You will get issues in dogs which will pounce in the odd generation but they try and take that out or address the issue. I would say 75 % who breed in the UK are great but its the puppy farms or mills are the issue. People but there dogs from them who don't know they are a farm dog & have false papers & have puppies register them with the KC and think they have a decent dog or bitch. That's where the system has its flaw as the UK don't have DNA testing. So in a nutshell things do pop up within a good system which is hard to get rid off |
Yeah, what the heck is going on in England?!  It's such a topsy turvy world in the English dog fancy world right now, I can't even begin to comment. What happened at Crufts this year has us all still asking questions. |
| One issue is the Judging in the UK. They chose a dog or a bitch over other decent dogs due to what is on the other end of the lead, which this dog or bitch gets a very good status but does not make it a good animal too breed with. The UK KC has made a total balls up of this. 1. They have no DNA database 2. If they have a issue with a certain breed due tue change of the breed over the years due to breeding ( Changing the look of the dog which does not help the dog out ) 3. They need to work with the breed groups to try & address the issue & not punish them 4. Stop bowing down to these stupid animal rights people. We all know things need to improve & some breeders need too wake up too this. 5. Stop this Puppy farming/mill issue 6. Better testing on these judges 7. Do spot checks on breeders 8. Work along side the proper animal groups (Shelters & Rescue Homes ) 9 Not spend millions of pounds on a new fancy building ( HQ) 10. Set an age limit on dog owners i.e you have to be over 21 This list could go on |
| Why should you be required to be over 21 to show a dog? In my opinion, that is really sad. I have a friend who has been handling since she was 9 and she is 22 now. Why should she have been denied showing dogs she raised and puppies her family bred? That same little girl went to college to become a vet tech. Dog showing has framed her life. Why would we ever want to prevent such a positive hobby for children and families? At Crufts, the judges whose BOB decisions were barred from participating in Group are highly respected judges. They certainly know the breeds they were judging. It is my understanding that some of the dogs who had won their Breed were disqualified based upon a Vet's inspection of their eyes, with a scope. That's certainly not an evaluation a judge can make in the ring. 'Who is on the other end of the lead' is part of the disclaimer I hear way TOO often at dog shows, along with the other many, many excuses people find when their dog doesn't win. Granted it is true some times, but then again, some people can show better than others. Dog exhibiting is a team activity with handler and dog. When you have some one who can showcase an unremarkable dog competing against someone who can't or won't exhibit their dog to display the dog's strengths and minimize the faults, I'm not certain the judge is entirely to blame. I grew up in a golfing household. The same etiquette applies to dog shows, though you'd never know it. Sorry... I'm continuously disappointed in the lack of good sportsmanship that is essential to the fancy. People need to congratulate the winner and know that no matter what the judge's opinion was on that day, you are still going home with the very best dog. We agree about the KC's administration and trying to please the animal zealots. There is definitely a leadership issue in your KC. I'm curious about what you would classify as a puppy farm/mill. Is it the number of litters per year a bitch produces? And/or is it the indiscriminate breeding for profit? Cheers! ~n |
| I have an OES from this breeder. THis is the best dog we have ever had and my third OES. Mary was helpful and very informative about the puppy. We traveled very far to pick the puppy up and couldn't be happier. |
| All puppies are precious. I hope you will create a profile and read the forum regularly. It can be a vital resource, especially for people who have chosen isolated breeders who don't do medical screening. For example, did you know there are some OEsheepdogs who have an MDR1 gene deficiency and have succumbed from heartworm preventive meds? A member here recently lost her dog from something that seem to begin as a food allergies. There is so much information here, it serves as a vital resource for your dog's life. Where did you travel from? Btw, there is a great German deli near Yuciapa that really is a hidden gem! |
| Yes, from vancouver.bc. Great breeder. We loved our bobby for 13 years, these dogs don't know they're dogs! |
| I know the previous post is old but I just wanted to say I am getting my second OES puppy from Mary Ketring because my first is so awesome. I've registered my first with the AKC and Mary's name is listed on the certificate, but I'm not sure how to go about finding her on their site. I can't say enough about how awesome Mary and her dogs are. |
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