Buff got through the worst and settled into the family, for the most part. He can still be twitchy and nervous but we know how to keep things calm.
Our pups travel with us frequently. Last week we drove to Denver, nothing unusual in the trip. We stayed at a great Marriott that Buff had visited before. Twice during our trip he seemed to revert to his old behavior.
On the way home DH and I started talking and realized we had come to the same conclusion. Neither of us believed Buff's breeder was completely up front with us about his past.
Her reason for selling him was he wasn't as tall as other dogs he'd compete against. He meets all the breed requirements, is a stunning animal, and had begun gathering his points in the ring.
We believe he was developing the personality issue while still with the breeder and that is what took him out of competition. It's only an assumption, but seems strange that hubby and I both came to the conclusion without talking to the other.
So with all the conversations on this board about "quality breeders" my question is this; knowing that the dog was going into a "pet" home, would a breeder be considered quality if they didn't disclose an obvious issue like Buffs? If the dog were sold for breeding or show purposes I know it would be inappropriate.
She needed to move him out the door, because he was not going to be a champion. She needed the room and money to put into the next generation. She follows good practices on health and has at least 12 champions.
|I'd probably consider it unethical first if she really knew it was a problem. Quality/responsible would depend on if she's producing dogs with problems or that don't meet the standard. I guess ethics kind of fall into that, too.|
I'd probably consider it unethical first if she really knew it was a problem. Quality/responsible would depend on if she's producing dogs with problems or that don't meet the standard.
Part of the standard IS
An adaptable, intelligent dog of even disposition, with no sign of aggression, shyness or nervousness
So if knowingly she did re-house the dog to you knowing there is a Temperament problem and not letting you know is Unethical IMO.
Be interesting to see if any siblings to your boy has a problem with Temperament. I do believe it is part Hereditry & Part Enviroment the personalities on the offspring and wonder what Mom and Dads personality are like too.
Part of breeding is not only how the dog is structured but also there Temperament as to wether to breed with them or not.
It was a problem in the breed back in the 80's from people wanting to breed with top winning dogs and not taking into consideration the Temperament side of the possible sires and dams as well. If you produce progeny and if the Temperament is not what I call "Bomb Proof" it does not matter how to standard in structure the dog is, without correct temperament no chance of being judged and over the years I have seen dogs "Excused" from the ring due to crappy incorrect temperaments.
I always say to people if you can a least see the Mom of a litter (she raises the babies) before getting a pup and see how stable she is, is really important. Sire is sometimes harder to view but if the opportunity arises that you can view dad too it just makes it better in your decision in choosing a puppy to get an idea to how the munchins may turn out personality wise.
So if she did knowingly pass the dog onto you after failing in the showring because of a possible Temperament issue and without letting you know the full circumstances as to why she is re-housing the dog then it is Unethical IMO There just passing on the problem to someone else to deal with which is so wrong.
|DITTO, DITTO, DITTO|
I haven't been around for a long time. Took a look this morning and this question caught my attention.
Breeders should be honest whether the dog is being sold as show or pet. Sad to say, some are not truthful. When problems pop up, some (not all!) will even deny knowing the problem existed in their line.
We used Mickey, our TT, to sire a litter born 4 weeks ago. I do show, but my main concerns are temperament and health. I agreed to use Mickey because I knew the bitch and I have known this breeder for years. We both have had OES since the 70s.
What is sad about breeders not being totally honest is they don't realize you'd probably still take the dog.
At 2 years of age Niles, OES, was attacked by 2 dogs and became nervous and stressed. We took him to several trainers, with no luck and last year (he was 10) tried another trainer who trained US. I don't know what you have tried in the past, but he is so much better now.
Hope things work out for you.
|It could be a case of denial on the breeders part. Breeders that do breed for temperment (as well as conformation) are sometimes very reluctant to recognize genetic temperment issues.
If it is a genetic issue there may be medical help. That along with training will make things easier for everyone - including the dog.
|I read frequent posts about working with an OESCA breeder and believe in my heart, that's the correct road to take when looking for a quality OES, if you are not going to rescue.
But, I still want to stress, it's critical to get ALL the information. Ask ALL the questions whether you think they are silly or not.
Buff's breeder belongs to OESCA, and as I said before, not everything was shared with us.
|I rescued Zorro in February this year, and believe me he has similar problems with nervousness, since he came he is a lot better and he is doing well in the ring at shows but living outdoors all the time has left its mark on him. Since he came to stay here he will go outside to our garden but only if the door is left open he still thinks he will be locked out.|
Lisa, I know his Sire and Dam and both are good dogs I see this as the result of either ignornance on the part of the former owner or he has been beaten by someone, when he arrive he would only crawl now he walks upright and even stands upto Hamish if need be, I think in another 6 months he will be back to normal.
Since you do not know what the OES has been through it can be very hard and trying or you and your family and not all adoptive owners are so understanding, yes you should have been informed if there was an issue but it is possible this was normal with their dogs and they may not have known any better.
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