Unexplained Seizures at age 4 1/2
My neighbor was able to get all four fosters girls away from us, but Beaureguard was standing guard and would not leave her side. In fact, once the seizure was over, it was his voice she responded to. While I was speaking gently to her and stroking her, he walked over to her, nuzzled her and very softly said "arrrrooooffff" and it was just like a switch had been flipped. She was instantly alert and her old self again. She got up, ran around, wiped that foamy beard on my jeans and took off running like nothing had ever happened. That's when I lost it & cried for my baby. 
I didn't panic, though, knowing that sometimes a seizure is an isolated incident. So, I just kept a close eye on her, bringing her to work with me as much as possible. Saturday night, she had another one. Just as I was getting ready to leave for dinner, I let them outside to potty and she seized again. This one was a little worse afterward. She didn't snap to like she did the first time. She was disoriented and walked around like a drunken sailor for a few minutes. I cleaned her up and put her in her crate to rest. We had some severe T-storms (with tornadoes) that night and she's afraid of storms anyway, so I knew she'd be happier in her crate. So, yesterday I took her to the vet to have some blood work done. Everything was normal. She appears to be perfectly healthy. Well, with the minor exception of the fact that she's gained 11 pounds this year (Chubby Bubby).  She's now on a diet.  Anyway, the vet started her on Phenobarbital, a low dose, to control the seizures. She's supposed to have her blood work done again in a month to see if the levels stay normal.
I've gone back through the old threads here on the forum on this topic and read them again, followed the helpful links provided, and have a pretty good idea of what to ask and look for in the coming weeks. From what I've read, she's still in the age range (2-5) for unexplained seizures to start in OES. I'm putting this out here so it will hopefully help someone else who faces this issue. Seriously, I was so grateful for the info provided here and that I'd taken the time to read it whether it applied to me at the time or not. It pays to be prepared. 
Please say a little prayer for my baby girl. I'm hopeful that the medication will alleviate the seizures for her. |
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| Has she gotten into anything bad? Some foods and poisons will cause seizures. Hopefully the bloodwork will show if there is a toxin in her system.
Fingers crossed! |
I don't think she's gotten into anything. I went back over the past few weeks mentally to see if anything was different or unusual, but I couldn't come up with anything. 
My first thought was that maybe it was the stress of being at the groomer all day. It's never seemed to bother her before, but there is always a first time. But, then when she had the second one on Saturday, she'd been with me pretty much all day and hadn't had anything odd happen or eaten anything different. So, I don't know.
Thanks for the well wishes. Keep those fingers & paws crossed that the meds do the trick. |
| Maybe she is having a reaction to the shampoo or condioner that the groomer used? Maybe another bath in an oatmeal shampoo or a hard core rinsing just to eliminate that possibility? |
| I hadn't thought of that, Mandy. It's definitely worth a try. |
| OMG! How scary! Thinking of you guys. |
| I would also check with the groomer to see if they were doing anything different or using a new product. Seeing how many groomers drug dogs without the owners knowledge has aways frightened me. |
| OH DEAR!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I had a beagle when I was a a kid that had seizures, she was on Phenobarbital and they controlled the seizures fairly well. She still had one once in awhile. She lived to be quite old. GOOD LUCK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! |
| Seizures can have many, many different causes. Most of the time the trigger is not found.
You are all right - stress, a change or anything listed above could be the culprit. Or it could just some internal change in Gen and they will just happen. Most dogs do real well on phenobarb or other meds and live long healthy lives. Hugs to you, Gen and Beau  |
| Check her thyroid levels. Full panel. Chances are it will be fine, but with the weight gain, it's well worth pursuing. I've found several references to OES (usually young and female) who had epilepsy who were also hypothyroid. When put on thyroid meds, their seizures were often better controlled with lower doses of seixure meds or, in some instances, they could be weaned off those meds competely.
Did you just give her HW meds by any chance? If so, which one? Recent vaccinations? Recent application of lawn chemicals? Another (loose) connection I've come across in OES appears to be seizures and pronounced allergies. If someone wanted to determine if it's idiopathic (idiopathic is diagnosed by excluding obvious causes - she is in the right age group), you generally rule out liver shunts (bile acid test) and cardiac issues (syncope can supposedly be mistaken for seizures in some cases). Stress, changes in atnospheric pressure, even supposedly full moons can act as triggers. Diabetis and brain tumors are other less likely (at her age) causes. The meds should work. See if you vet is amendable to weaning her from penobarb to probably potassium bromide or something like that down the road as the phenobarb is hard on the liver. And if she does go on PB, ask about giving her milkthistle to protect her liver. Did I mention I'm really sorry?
I do know what you're going through. I was babysitting a friend's then 3 year old male a couple of years ago and getting ready to leave for work early one more when he went down. I did what you did, somehow instinctively knowing you have to keep them from hurting themselves when thrashing around. When it was over he popped up like nothing had happened and I just sunk to the floor sobbing, dog looking at me like: "What? What??? What's wrong?" It changes you. To this day I hear my own dogs scramble a little to make themselves more comfortable in a crate or something and my heart all but stops. I saw the boy I'm referring to just a few days ago and he's been through some meds and dosage changes but he's doing well and was happy to see me, which I jokingly attribute to the fact that he had his first three known seizures only in my presence - joke <?> being that I was the trigger - haha. And I'd feed him vanilla icecream after. He is related in some way or another to all of my dogs. Two weekends ago a bunch of us got together and donated blood samples and pedigrees for epilepsy research. We don't have research specifically for our breed, so we submitted the samples to an existing allbreed study. Idiopoathic epilepsy is basically rampant in a number of other herding breeds, but (apparently) doesn't occur as frequently in the OES population, and it would be nice to keep it that way, if that is indeed true (I ran into a lot of brick walls, especially in the beginning, when I started asking questions) Which is why we decided to collect DNA etc now rather than wait. Anyone is interested in details regarding the study and how to participate, PM me and I'll put you in touch with our vet who arranged it for us. It's scary, but she'll be OK, Tammy. And you did all the right things. Kristine |
| Oh no! Poor Gen!
I have no advice or suggestions or anything, just wanted to let you know I'm thinking of you guys. I wonder if it's happened before while you weren't home or if these were the only ones. And good boy to Beau for being protective of her! |
Beaureguard's Mom wrote: Genevieve Phenobarbital
Poor Genevieve! My cat had unexplained seizures and I know how scary they can be. She has been on Phenobarbital for quite awhile now and we haven't seen another seizure since beginning the medicine. Though, it does seem to mess with her equilibrium a little bit. She doesn't always make the jump on the bed during the first attempt anymore. I hope you are able to find what is causing the seizures and that Genevieve responds to the medication in the meantime. Thinking of you both, Tasha |
Oh bless. I am so sorry that must have been really scary. I really hope the meds help and they are just isolated case. Love to you and snuggles to your dogs....  |
| I'm so sorry Tammy. It's so scary for those who have to observe...
she didn't have a clue as to what was happening so this should be of some comfort. If you haven't already, have them run a thyroid test... as Kristine said, weight gain and seizures can be signs of low thyroid. Have it sent off for full testing... maybe even to Dr. Dodds. Don't settle for the in-house testing... it's usually not thorough enough. Low thyroid is one condition where a little pill can make a huge difference in a dogs life. http://www.canine-epilepsy-guardian-ang ... Carson.htm You've probably already visited The Epi Guardian Angels website but just in case, here's the link- http://www.canine-epilepsy-guardian-ang ... efault.htm Hugs to Genevieve  |
OMG, Tammy, how scary! I hope the PB helps Genn or that they can come up with a reason behind the seizures. Hugs to you, Beau and an extra long hug and kiss to Miss Genn.  |
| Oh no, Tammy. I'm so sorry to hear that and I wish I had some advice to give you. Didn't someone awhile back (maybe it was Gucci's mom in Canada that is related to Mandy's Toby) also use an alternative to Phenobarbital that worked really well, too? I feel like Elissa may have used it on Peanut, too. |
| It's called bacopin, and unfortunately it was one of several threads lost during a crash of the forum a while back.
I recommended it to a friend who has a 10 yr old oes that has epilepsy, and it didn't work for her but it is well worth trying and easy to order online. |
| Here's another website that offers a lot of info on epilepsy-
http://www.canine-epilepsy.net/basics/basics_main.html Note: I see it's also linked to from the OESCA health site. |
| Thanks, everyone, for your well wishes. I truly appreciate them and I'll be sure to pass them along to Genny when I get home.
Kristine - thanks for the reminder to have her thyroid checked. I will do that next. She had her HW med about two weeks ago and she hasn't had shots since last September. I haven't treated for fleas yet, but it will soon be necessary. My vet is amenable to switching to PB and I did ask her about milk thistle yesterday. She didn't think it necessary yet, but may be later on if she has to stay on the meds.
Does anyone know if it's okay to give the Bacopin along with the Phenobarbital?
Thanks for the links Jaci. I am devouring all the info I can get my hands on now as you can imagine.
Yeah, Steph, it concerns me that I've seen two in the past week. Makes me wonder how many she's had while I'm at work. I was proud of Beau for being protective of her. It was really sweet.
Tasha the vet told me the phenobarbitol might make her groggy. That should be interesting. |
| Tammy, how scary!
Kristine's epistle is excellent and should be double or triple starred by us all for reference if needed in the future.......we pray not. Hopefully the phenobarb will slow this down for Gen. Fortunately Beau has taken the guardian role, sometimes they will attack the "weaker" member. |
| Tammy I am so sorry to hear about poor Gen...no advise just well wishes that the seizures get under control as soon as possible. My son had seizures when he was little, never did figure out why. So I know how frightening the seizures can be.
to Gen/Tammy |
| Tam..i am soo sorry to hear about gen....my next door neighbors 5 yr old poodle started having them too....he takes his meds 2xs a day...i believe that its the phenobarbital....he hasnt had a seizure since taking it.
give her a kiss for me.. |
| Tammy - when you have her thyroid levels check please have them do a liver profile on her and look for any abnormalities.
You have my prayers and all my hopes that this can be controlled someway. Please give her a big hug and kiss from me and the mafia. |
| Tammy sorry to hear about Gen, so scary and you handled it well and what a wonderfull brother in Beau looking after Gen.
Is there anything around your place or at the groomers that may contain Lead, like something painted in old paint? Old paint always contained Lead, anything like that she may of chewed on or been exposed to? Just a thought there as well. Definately have a full thryroid panel done to help try and work out what is happening with her. Hugs for you and belly rubs for gen, I hope the seizures do settle down for your darling Gen. Keep us posted to how she is going, we will be thinking of you all. |
| Tammy, so sorry that Gen is going through this.. here's hoping that that was the only 2 seizures that she will ever have.
Hugs to you. |
| Here's some info from before
http://forum.oes.org/viewtopic.php?t=7727 |
| I am so sorry, that is scary. You all will be in my thoughts. (( hug )) |
| Tears are pouring right now...My heart aches for all of our babies when something devastating happens but it really aches when it happens to someone as sweet and precious as Genevieve. Lots of hugs and many, many heartfelt prayers go out to you, Genevieve, and Beauregard. |
| Tammy,
I am very sorry to hear about Gen's seizures. 
The Bacopin was a miracle drug for Peanut. Peanut's seizures started at a little over a year old. They were a very rare occurance so the Vet said he was not ready to try meds yet. Just monitor them and observe. At about 3 yrs old the seizures started coming about every 2 - 3 weeks and the Vet put him on Phenobarbitol. Phenobarbitol made Peanut who was only 8 lbs gain 5 lbs. He was out of it too... they kept raising his dose and he kept having more seizures. I finally pulled him off it when he was up to 3 seizures a day. The Vet kept insisting that the medication would work if we gave it time and kept increasing the dose. He was only on phenobarbitol for about 6 months, but it made him so much worse. He lost the weight after coming off the meds and went back to having a rare seizure here and there.
The seizures then increased again around 6 yrs old and that is when I found the Bacopin. The seizures stopped completely on the Bacopin. It can be used with Phenobarbitol. Though I used it alone and that was all Peanut needed. |
| Hugs to both of you!! |
| Tammy, I'm so sorry. Sounds like you handled it wonderfully. Give Gen big kisses for me! |
| Oh I am so sorry, my last dog was a German Shepard/schnauzer mix and she had seizures. I felt drained and sick after ever one of them. It is a sad thing to see. She lived to 16 years old! My vet said he never seen anything like it. So have faith. |
| I wish I could tell you how much I appreciate your concern. Y'all are so sweet.
Ron - thanks for digging up that old post with the info on bacopin. |
Beaureguard's Mom wrote: She had her HW med about two weeks ago and she hasn't had shots since last September.
I was fostering an epeleptic collie this summer that the owners surrendered due to the seisures.. We were told she has them off and on, and then I had her for 6 weeks with none. I did a lot of research and with my vet we kind of hoped it was environmental...She used to live in an apartment that sprayed the grounds a lot...Plus lived near a large electrical thingy...At my place we had no pesticides, and only well water...read no clorine. She was adopted to a home in the city and after 2 weeks started seizing. Can't help thinking it could be a reaction to chemicals...pesticides, or even her HW meds. |
| Just got caught up on this thread. I am so sorry to hear that Gen is having seizures. You and Beau are handling it amazingly well. It sounds so scary. I really hope the meds work or that this is a temporary situation caused by some change. . . Big hugs to all . . . |
| Oh I'm so sorry to hear this! Please give Gen (and Beau for being such a good brother!) hugs from me and Wally |
| Tammy that's just horrible. First thing I thought was yard chemicals since the weather is so nice now. Beau what a sweetie. Amazing how you can keep it together during something like that and then later forget it when it really sinks in what had happened.
Hope you get some help and answers and she stays well! |
I'm so sorry to hear about Gen's seizures. I hope they don't ever happen again.  |
| Hi Tammy,
Oh I'm so sorry you experienced this with Genevieve and admittedly they are scary to observe. I'm seizure management certified (as a result of my work) but that doesn't make me an expert as to why they occur - just what to do when they occur. You did the right thing - if possible move items out of the way - don't try to restrain whoever is seizuring and comfort and speak softly when the seizure is over. Many people still believe the old wives tale about holding down the tongue which is a good way to get bit. Considering that was your beloved furkid you were observing Tammy - you handled it amazingly well! Good job! I had a cat that seized off and on for 4 years at my former home - no meds given on vets recommendations, as they happened sporatically. Interestingly enough, the seizures completely stopped when I moved to another place. The only advice is at this moment try to document - length of seizure in terms of time and other factors you are aware of. You may then be able to see a pattern. Hopefully this is not going to reoccur as finding the triggers is difficult in many cases. Hugs to you and Genevieve and good ole Beau for being such a wonderful brother! Marianne |
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