Help! Have no idea how to fix this!

Help!

We adopted littermates Sophie and Sherman at 9 weeks of age. They are just about to turn 2 years old. Although we have had OES for the past 16 years, and have easily and successfully trained our other two dogs with little or no fanfare, Sophie and Sherman have proved to be much more of a challenge. Part of the issue is that Sophie has always had incontinence problems, with wetting while sleeping occasionally as a puppy, which mostly disappeared and reappered after her spay at 6 months. This is controlled almost completely by medication (she's at the max dose), with a rare damp spot where she's been laying.

With our other dogs, we never used a crate and my husband was insistant that we didn't need one with Sophie and Sherman, despite the difficulty in house training the pair. They chose a corner of the family room, where the family spends most of our time as their potty corner. This has never, ever been an issue before. The carpet was old and due to be replaced, so that wasn't the issue so much as I did not want the habit to become ingrained. We always used Nature's Miracle to clean, followed directions, etc.

When the puppies seemed mostly to be over this habit, we replaced the carpet which lies over cement foundation. The area was carefully cleaned multiple times, sealed with a sealant recommended by the carpet company, and new carpet was laid. This was a year ago.

Unfortunately, the puppies --now almost 2 years old, still see this area as a back up potty. We have dealt wit this by covering the area with water proof mattress protectors. There is no real rhyme or pattern to this. We can go days and even weeks with no urine and then, we will have multiple spots for days on end. Not the spotting that might come from a Sophie leak, but actual urination spots. Occasionally, poop, but much more rarely.

The dogs are all on the same schedule: morning walk before breakfast (usually 6:30 am, but sometimes later on weekends), then breakfast for dogs and humans, another walk, then en for the day. Walk at about 3 pm; dinner at about 6 pm; walk around 7 pm. LAst call/around the block around 11 pm. Weather permitting, if someone is home (and my husband has a flexible schedule so he is home more during the day than I am, and our daughter is frequently home during the day) the dogs get more outdoor time, which they enjoy. Pee spots have been found within minutes of half hour to hour long walks during which time all dogs eliminated multple times.

Sophie is very clever and very manipulative. When she was a pup, if she didn't get what she wanted, she would run to a spot and pee, right in front of us, because she knew that meant an immediate time out in the yard. She is also clever and manipulative in other ways: all 3 dogs were outside playing. Sherman wanted Archie to play with him; Archie mostly wanted to sit. Sophie wanted Sherman to play with her (she always wants to be the center of attention) and he kept ignoring her in favor of Archie. So, Sophie, clever girl that she is, grabbed a squeaky toy (irresistable to Archie) and ran in front of the boys with it. They both prompty chased her, which is what she wanted all along. This is only one example of Sophie manipulating things to try to get what she wants.

Sophie will go to the door to be let out, sometimes to play, sometimes for potty. Sherman and ARchie seem fine with the scheduled potty times, and will go out when allowed, but don't ask very often.

We have never been able to catch anybody in the act. Therefore there has been no scolding for accidents. Praise for potty outside. The 'surprises' can occur if only one of us is home, all of us are home, nobody is home. I have spent days purposely spending almost all of my time in the family room, only to have to leave for my own bathroom break to come back to find a pee stain, virtually always on the pads. We are almost 100% sure that any urinary accidents are from Sophie as she needs to go much more frequently and in smaller amounts than Sherman who usually pees so much that we feel fairly confident we would be able to tell if it was from Sherman or Sophie. We don't believe it's ARchie because this hasn't been an issue with him, ever.

Have we unwittingly trained the dogs to use the pads as a back up potty? How can we break them of this habit? My husband remains pretty determined not to use crates. If I can convince him otherwise, would this work with 2 year old dogs and is it unfair if we leave our older 9 yr old Archie outside a crate? Archie has never been crated.

The dogs are otherwise pretty well behaved, with some spats between Sophie and Sherman (Sophie seems to be the instigator) and some food aggression (comes and goes, again, mostly a Sophie issue with some Sherman. Vastly improving with NILF.) They walk well on leash, are good on basic commands, get tons of affection, are expected to behave politely and do behave politely, are good with everybody I've encountered, including other dogs of various sizes, shapes, breeds, and genders.

It is possible to keep them from going into that part of the house unattended, but difficult. Also, we've had issues with one of them chewing woodwork (antique, very nice oak) when confined to the rest of the house. This is not very practical when people are home, but short term, we could do it if necessary.

Help!
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