Done with the crate at 4 mos? Help!
I'm having some wierd behavior that none of my books address. Perhaps some of you can help...? I have the 4 month old Sheepie monsters Tonks and Luna. They were doing REALLY well; going to bed at 10:30, last going out to pee at midnight, and then sleep right through to 8am. I couldn't have been happier. At 10:30 all I had to do was say "In the crate" and have thier special "crate treat" ready (piece of freeze dried chicke liver) and they'd go right in. A week ago Luna decided she was done with the crate. I'd say "In the crate" and Tonks would go in, and Luna would go to the other side of the kitchen and lie down on a blanket. She'd then look me dead in the face as if to say " I'm going to sleep here, mom." Now there's a twist: Tonks and Luna have been fighting lately; over bowls of food or water or bones. Our trainer thinks they are trying to establish who will be dominant of the two. So we wondered if Luna just didn't want to sleep with Tonks anymore. The crate doesn't seem too small for the two of them. She's just made up her mind. For 3 nights I made her sleep in it anyway; afterall; I rule the house, not my puppies. And for three nights Luna made me miserable. Whining to go out every hour or two. And if I took her out, she'd pee. So it wasn't like she was just whining to whine. So then I didn't dare to NOT take her out; then I'd have a pee-filled crate. Two nights ago, exhasution creeping up on my, I let them sleep out of the crate. Isolated to the kitchen so as to limit thier destructiveness, they were very good that night. So I was going to let them stay there again last night, when Luna began her whining again. Whats going on? What should I do? I think they are too young to be out of the crate already; am I wrong? And now this new whining...? |
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| I don't know about the behavioral issues, but maybe a UTI? |
Are they in the same crate? Perhaps it would be better if they each had their own. As for the fighting, Gabe and Jonah are doing that too, sometimes over food or a toy, sometimes just to be ornery  |
Ron wrote: I don't know about the behavioral issues, but maybe a UTI?
Luna just finished up UTI meds about a week ago. It was her second time with UTI; I'm not seeing any of her usual UTI signs. |
| UTI or puppy vaginitis?
You know how you have to wipe butts some times? On little girl puppies you may need to run a quick wipe over their privates. Are they sticky/crusty at all? Most trainers will actually tell you not to get siblings (says she who has three - but I only actually kept two intentionally  ) Your two almost qualify since they are so close in age. They do go through periods of establishing the pecking order which is normal and not anything to be concerned about as long as they figure it out without bloodshed. The other concern is that they will become more bonded to each other than individually to you, making them harder to train, which is why you have to set aside private one-on-one time with each of them pretty much daily. Even if it's only for short separate training sessions.
My two sisters are almost two and still have some sibling rivalry going on. Thursday is Sybil's agility class. I will come home with her and her sister will harrass her. Then I will put the hairy eyeball sister (also hairy in general) up on the grooming table and work on her for a while tonight, and Sybil will sit there and give me the sad eyes routine  
Even if it is a UTI that has your girl up and peeing, at four months, I would have them sleeping in separate crates (and in my estimation your instincts are right on - they are probably two young to be trusted out at this point). Six months is probably the earliest I ever trusted anyone, though I may have had a transitional month or two of them gated in the bathroom where they could see me. Just some thoughts. When my boy came back at a year old he whined half the night in his crate and barked the rest, but I was mean enough to make him stick it out till he shut up and could sleep through the night there. Even though I ended up being reeeaaaallly tired for a couple of weeks.
Now, needing to pee is a different issue. A quick urine sample should shed some light on that question mark. Kristine |
Mad Dog wrote: UTI or puppy vaginitis? You know how you have to wipe butts some times? On little girl puppies you may need to run a quick wipe over their privates. Are they sticky/crusty at all? I'm a bit of a clean freak when it comes to puppy butts; I do alot of wiping. Girlie bits too. They seem to be free and clear. Mad Dog wrote: Most trainers will actually tell you not to get siblings (says she who has three - but I only actually kept two intentionally ) Your two almost qualify since they are so close in age. They do go through periods of establishing the pecking order which is normal and not anything to be concerned about as long as they figure it out without bloodshed. Yes; I had read that I was in for some trouble in getting 2 pups at once. And we HAVE had bloodshed; twice now. I had our trainer over on Sunday to sort of give our living spcae the once over, see how the dogs were set up, see them in their home envrionment. She says we are doing everything right; we just have to ride it out, and make sure it doesn't come to bloodshed. We need to step in before that point; as the dogs depend on us to keep them safe. Mad Dog wrote: The other concern is that they will become more bonded to each other than individually to you, making them harder to train, which is why you have to set aside private one-on-one time with each of them pretty much daily. Even if it's only for short separate training sessions. My boyfriend and I have been pretty good about this. We train them individually, grooming is one on one time, and I am trying to do individual walks ( they are too heavy as a pair for me to take them both out. Mad Dog wrote: My two sisters are almost two and still have some sibling rivalry going on. Thursday is Sybil's agility class. I will come home with her and her sister will harrass her. Then I will put the hairy eyeball sister (also hairy in general) up on the grooming table and work on her for a while tonight, and Sybil will sit there and give me the sad eyes routine Even if it is a UTI that has your girl up and peeing, at four months, I would have them sleeping in separate crates (and in my estimation your instincts are right on - they are probably two young to be trusted out at this point). Six months is probably the earliest I ever trusted anyone, though I may have had a transitional month or two of them gated in the bathroom where they could see me. yeah i wondered if a second crate was in my future; thanks for your input! Mad Dog wrote: Just some thoughts. When my boy came back at a year old he whined half the night in his crate and barked the rest, but I was mean enough to make him stick it out till he shut up and could sleep through the night there. Even though I ended up being reeeaaaallly tired for a couple of weeks. Now, needing to pee is a different issue. A quick urine sample should shed some light on that question mark. Kristine |
| You know I have two very close in age and thye are very bonded to each other- but they are definitly bonded more closely with me (they have on occassion fought over me but that is another story) We did a few things you might or might not have to do if they weren't so close in age:
1) seperate crates 2) doggie day care where they were seperated (like splitting up twins in school ) 3) seperate trainers - yep not just seperate classes seperate trainers in seperate facilities- more so I really had to pay attention in each class 4) I walked them together most of the time - yep I am lazy but I also thought they needed to be together under my control, rather than the puppy crazies they exibited at home - and still do although now theyonly do so outside. 5) training, training, training, training |
| Seperate crates is a wonderful idea!!
I have two foster boys that LOVE eachother(they are siblings) They love eachother silly but, in the same crate if there is any commotion the bigger boy jumps the smaller boy! We put them in seperate crates for a while but, luckily we are past the crate stage for those two.. Might I add they still sleep in there together when the door is open! Alot of dogs can be cage aggressive! Training---yes yes yes We have two other males that don't get along so well We continually walk them next to eachother to hopefully get that trust back between the two...(it takes two of us to do that) Behaviour issues are hard...but, it can be worked out. Good Luck! I am sure you will get some good answers here and I will learn from them as well Kathy |
| the girls are in their second training session; we finished "Puppy school" and have gone onto "Dog Manners". I'd like to start them in Agility after not too long as well. We're very into training; we knew that having 2 it would be necessary. |
| I'd suggest separate crates. This whole thing was trial and error for us though. We had two large crates but put them in one to start... the stinkers would play instead of sleep so they were then separated... the crates side-by-side. Then they tried to play with each other through the bars. We had to put a big piece of cardboard between the crates and later used a sheet. http://oesusa.com/Twin-Crates.jpg (No, we didn't cover her up. ) By 6 months, we put the crates away and they had free run of the house because house rules had been learned.
It seems they always looked forward to being together to play... they are still the best of friends even though they're littermates. They have a unique way of squabbling... snapping at the air at each other but never a fight between them or others in the pack. It might just be by accident or heredity that they're this way. Separate them when you train too and later bring them together for more training or you'll go insane
Good luck to you. |
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