Well my point is this...they apparently (since they have so many dogs and so little time) gave our girl a flea dip...not for sure what kind but she is not the same color as when we first seen her. Her white hair is yellow and the black is yellowish as well. Her hair seems to have a film on it and the hair clumps together...it also looks like she has lost some hair either by falling out or chewing out. She has awful dandruff but don't know if that is related or not...vet says she may have mites so we put revolution on her and hopefully that will help the dandruff. I really just want her to get better. When we first took her home she was very lazy but now after a few days of quality food and attention she is getting more active.
My question is this...I have given her a quick bath and the groomer (don't get me started on her, said she gave her a bath) but to no luck...she still stinks and doesn't look like the yellow has gotten any whiter..even though we did use a whitening shampoo. Is there anyway to wash this off and get her hair back to normal or do I just wait for the coat change and let it grow out...she is about 16 weeks old. Any help will be greatly appreciated.
|I was just wondering if hairsalon stripping shampoo my help or shampoo for swimmers hair I would not want to use it all the time just this once to see if it works you would have to condtion real good and add some tea tree oil to it few drops to cut the smell. just a thought.|
|Or you could try a green human shampoo, like Pert or Prell. Those will take color out.|
|One thing that might help: If it was a flea dip, it's oil based, so try Dawn dish soap. We gave our cat a flea spray "bath" once, and it didn't work, so we called the vet to see if we could use revolution or something, and he said to first bathe her in dawn so the oils would be washed off, or it might make her sick. It's worth a try, anyway. The clumping sounds a lot like it could be oily.|
|I also heard that VO5 will strip color out of hair...also worth a try. I do remember hearing that they use Dawn to clean oil off the feathers of birds caught in oil slicks. That may be your best bet. Good luck. Let us know what happens.|
|Hey thanks for the advice... I will have to try the Dawn first...I was really affraid of applying more chemicals to her but I think the dawn would be fine for her. I believe I have heard other people say they have used it before and it worked well.
Thanks again...hope it works.
|Worse comes to worst ... a little time to let it grow out and a pair of clippers will do wonders!|
|Your right Ron...I have also thought about letting it grow out some more and shaving it off. This would be the easiest if she didn't stink so bad. Any worries about the Dawn drying out her skin?
How many coat changes are there and what stages of life do they come in?
|I worry about seborrhea.......such as the oily form, Seborrhea oleosa. Often caused by fat enriched diets, it can also be a secondary problem to low thyroid, flea bites, and a crappy diet. There is also scabies and mange but let's not go there.
So I assume you pup is now on an excellent diet, no table treats! Second try washing her with a selenium based shampoo or benzoyl peroxide or salicylic acid. Leave the shampoo on for 15 minutes. You may have to bathe every third day or so until the condition rights itsself.
If the dog didn't stink, I'd think the dry sebhorrea where you'd use hypoallergenic mild shmpoos.
Shearing is recommended for long haired breeds until the problem is recitifed.
You vet has much to look at. I'd insist on a thyroid test.........you can use the excuse sheepdogs are known for this problem. Dr. Jean Dodds DVM has researched sheepdogs and their thyroids. You can also have Dr. Dodds run a blood test for you, but your vet has to draw the blood and you have to ship it the same day. Most vets feel violated and won't cooperate.
|Those are all possiblities but I don't know if I want to jump in and do all this right away. She has only been with me for a few days and has already shown improvement and looks better when you brush her...other than the color of her coat. If she doesn't improve I will take further action but I want her to settle in and see if it was just her diet and the flea dip. She is already showing way more activity then she did when we first brought her home.
I am not saying I don't want my dog to be healthy or I don't want to spend the money on her or that sheepieboss is wrong. I guess I just don't want to travel down too many paths at once trying to nurse my baby back to health. Thank you for your input and I will look into the information you have gave me.
|Sheepieboss understands and hopes the coat color is just a burn from the dip and new coat comes in perfectly.......and that the stink goes away as the fleas bites heal and good food wins overall.
|Good news...the dawn dish soap really cleaned her up pretty good...she isn't pearly white but you can tell a difference. Her coat is a lot softer now too and doesn't seem to have a film on the hair as bad. More good news is that there is bright white hair growing in under the creamy yellow hair. Still has some dandruff but hopefully that will clear up as well.
Could a flea treatment/dip cause dandruff?
Does washing with Dawn dish soap remove a spot flea/tick treatment?
|Yeah Dawn! The dandruff is probably dry skin. I wouldn't be too worried about that one. Her natural skin oil will come back. Just keep brushing and put a little egg/oil/etc in her food. Unless your vet says it's something else.|
|Hi, I am new here but certainly not new to grooming an OES for home and for show. This is my advice - which you will not like, but given the situation and the age of the puppy, has the greatest chance of succeeding. First, never, ever buy a OES from anyone but a reputable breeder - they are prone to allergies, skin problems, auto-immune problems...sounds like you have some or all of these. I recommend strongly that you have her shaved down - take her to a "good" for a work-up to see if he can help with the obvious allergies, mites, etc. Once she is healthy, if you want to keep her in coat, I will tell you how to do it. Takes about a year to grow a show coat - this way the coat will come in thicker and, wonderfully, you will miss the coat change over. Let me know please what you decide and I hope I have been of some help.|
|Hi Lynnediva, welcome to the forum!
I am so happy that you've decided to join us. I look forward to your posts.
Be sure to introduce yourself in the introductions section!
|Yes I would be interested in grooming a long coat...at least once I think I would like to try it. I have posted new pictures of Max and Ruby. From the pictures you can tell she is a different color than Max. Underneath the coat however, you can tell a bright white hair is coming in and a dark black instead of a brownish color. I will probably let it grow out some more and then shave her down.
Any ideas on how to stop the dandruff? I gave her some revolution so that would probably kill the mites correct? I can't seem to find a good brush to get the dandruff out of her hair? Any suggestions...I was thinking about the furminator...looked sorta like a flea comb.
|She is a doll!!!|
|What a cutie - both of them. They are going to have so much fun together!
I would just use a good slicker brush for now. The furminator really isn't made for OES hair. With good nutrition and periodic bathing (moisturizing shampoo and one good for the skin) she should be doing lots better soon.
The saying - you are what you eat - is very true for dogs too!
|I'd bathe her regularly and also consider shaving her down as Lynne mentioned. What you've described does sound like seborrhea but who knows what they dipped her in.
http://www.peteducation.com/article.cfm ... cleid=1115
If you clip her shorter, it will also allow for quicker baths and faster drying time. It might also eliminate some of the smell and you'll be able to get a better look at her skin to make sure the condition is improving. I would definitely make an appointment for her to have a thorough going over by your vet and get a medicated shampoo from them.
I agree with the comment about the furminator too... I have one and have never been able to use it on any of my 4 sheepies. You might have better success with a flea comb or another type of comb were the teeth are close together.
Don't know how much longer she would have made it if we had not bought her.
Lastly, IF you think this breeder is in violation of any health or care laws, please do the brave thing and talk with Animal Control or the Humane Society. You do not need to give your name. No one can speak for these dogs and pups except for those that have first hand knowledge of their existence and conditions they're living in.
|I have taken her to the vet and they believe it might be mites which is why they gave her Revolution. I am taking her back the 30th for another check-up and rabies shot. I hope she feels better by then.
What sort of brush do you use to strip the undercoat? Mars King Rake?
|My sheepies don't have a heavy undercoat so I've never had to strip them. My Border Collie and Schipperke mixes are notorious shedders. I found that the Oster 16 tooth rake works best on them... it looks like the Mars King Rake you mentioned.
By the way, I rescued a sheepie about 1 1/2 years ago and couldn't bring myself to completely shave off her horridly stained beard so I clipped her twice... once removing about half of the stained fur and a second time removing the rest it once the pretty white fur was beginning to come in-
I can appreciate your reluctance to clip her down.
I hope your baby will be feeling well soon.
|She is adorable, I hope her skin improves with proper food and care. You know I think the same way, we adopted a GSD from a breeder because we felt she was not taken care of the way she should be. She came with so many health problems because of the poor breeding. One of them was dry skin to the point her fur was very thin in spots like her bum. But these dogs need good homes and taken care of properly. I'm glad you have this puppy and she's going to get the good care she deserves. I think there should be a special license to breed dogs. And only for improving the breed and providing quality puppies!!!!!!!!!!!!!|
|ah Rubys a cutie and she looks like she will be a lot of fun|
|I am new and would love to post a picture of one of my "kids" but can't figure it out - has to be a certain number of K? and certain number of pixels - all seems right when I look at the picture description, but no go. I really do understand you not wanting to shave her down - she is adorable - but just imagine the pain of stripping out all that matted undercoat. For an OES to be kept in coat, they have to LOVE the grooming table, they have to SLEEP on it for four hours....and during the summer, they are much cooler with short coats....I felt horrible shaving down my first one after her litter - but her coat was coming off in my hands....it is easier to skip the head - do it in stages as just posted - because the head coat takes longer to grow back. Just some suggestions.|
|Lynn - if you look at the top right of the page you will see My Photos - underlined. Click on that. Then in red type you will see "upload file" - click on that. Then click on the "browse" box - it should go to the pictures you have in your computer. Keep selecting pictures, then click continue at the bottom of the page. Keep following the directions - it works!|
|Sorry - it is Max - a HE obviously.....I just found this post and any opportunity to talk about OES renders me incoherent and befuddled...I will try and get some kind of picture in there...thanks for the info. Re Max, did you say he was 14 weeks old??? I can't even get to the previous page - if he is that young, he shouldn't be matting much at all. If the puppy coat is matter, might be due to all the meds, not rinsing the soap out, laying in a crate for some time if it is hot and humid, etc. The air must get to the skin to even make a diagosis and the skin needs to breathe. OES can have a lot of skin problems!!! If this adorable baby is matting now - he will really be one mess in several months. And keeping an OES in show coat is a big commitment!!! Right all??? I do 5 hours a week just to maintain the coat - four times that when I am showing. Hope some of this - along with all the other wonderful ideas helps you. Lynne|
|Okay - got it!!! She is a girl and her name is Ruby and she is 16 weeks old - and thyroid, yes, is another potential cause. I cannot post a pic because I have "no images" and I have "no images" because I can't post a pic. That is for another day....I think we all agree that the problems Ruby has must be diagnosed and treated.....then we differ a little in the approach. She is just darling. I stand by the shave down, vet visit, treatment, re-growth opinion. And I am so glad Max has a new friend - can't just have one. Do not know if anyone else answered your question re water on the flea med spot - I would not put on the med and then give a full bath - but it says the area can get wet and the med will still work. So I would certainly let Luc out in the rain after. Seeing that you live in Kentucky brings another set of problems for coated dogs - heat and humidity - I am down the road in Bloomington Indiana...please keep us up-dated, now that I am FINALLY on the right page....|
Max and Me wrote:
Any ideas on how to stop the dandruff?
Congratulations on Ruby, so glad you have her and she is getting the TLC she needs.
With her skin try introducing Omega Oils into her diet to help the skin, it will also help the coat as well.
Another supplement to help her along is "Missing Link"
Unfortunately with all the staining on her whites, and she is still a baby puppy, it is probably better to trim her right down leaving about an inch and start again as I don't think anything would remove the yellowing there it would have to grow out and be trimmed off as it grows.
Look forward to seeing Ruby bloom and grow under your care.
Another supplement to help her along is "Missing Link"
Lisa, Missing Link should give you some free stuff. You give them a lot of recommendations!
|I was also going to recommend "Missing Link". It really is amazing stuff. It has all kinds of good stuff in it, and all natural, too. I like that you can actually identify each ingredient!
Each time I get lazy and stop giving Dixie hers we start up with problems again...Not so much with her her fur, but with scratching, and skin issues, and then the whole ear infection thingy....
It is stuff that gives a boost to where needed...And both my dogs are already on a high quality holistic dog food.
Some places you have to get it through your vet, but you can also buy it online..
|I could do with some free stuff Jill, it costs heaps here in Oz.
Nice to see Nicole recommends it too, YAY Nicole, YAY Dixie.
With individuals that have used it for different situations I have heard nothing but awesome and good results there.
Hmmmm maybe a job in promotions are on the way neeeded here.
|Thank you all for your interest in Ruby. To clarify some I do have two OES's...Max and Ruby. Max is a male and about 6 months old. I have never really had any problems out of him...knocking on wood right now. Ruby is the female I just got and she is about 1.5 months behind Max. Ruby is doing better...I was thinking about getting her some of the Omega supplements to help her coat but I will look into the "missing link" supplement as well. She is full of energy now and we can't wait until she grows up.
I realize the full coat will be a lot of work...but I would like to try it at least once to see if I can do it. I think they are beautiful when they are in full coat...well I think they are beautiful anyway but I would like to show Max some eventually...if I ever figured out how to do it.
I agree about shaving Ruby down to get rid of the yellow hair...how fast does it grow back out? I was waiting for a little bit to let some more hair grow so I didn't have to shave all the hair off and then was going to go for a clean cut. She is already looking better after a few baths but I will never get it as white as it should be. We go back to the vet this saturday for another check up and will probably shave her in the next week.
Thank you all and please continue to talk about things...I am learning so much here.
|You usually get about an inch a month back in regrowth.
I would not shave her off to the skin, get a groomer to scissor her and leave about an inch all over so she still looks fluffy and that should get rid of the Yellow on her coat
Then you still have a bit of coat left to start a regular grooming routine for her and getting her use to being brushed etc.
|I once rescued 2 OES's and they were in aweful condition when I got them - they both had fleas and mats galore. They had the flea dips and a short haircut - 1/2 inch long. They did NOT turn yellow. I'm not sure what could turn a dog yellow. Did you consider, since the original owners were not caring for the dogs well, that the dog might be a mixed breed? If I were you, I'd start over with a short haircut with mites, fleas and yellow hair. Good luck and good for you rescuing one!|
|Both Max and Ruby are adorable. Looks like you're going to have your hands full!|
|It has been driving me crazy trying to remember what had happened to a friends of mines dog years ago that turned the dog the same shade of yellow .
Wham !!! I just thought of it ,they had really bad ' Well water 'and they did some kind of dip that was not to be rinsed off the dog. If I remember right it was a dip for mange.
Anyway , mixed with the well water it stained the dog and it looked just like Ruby!
They had to shave the dog and start over but the dog was perfect after the hair grew back. (I think it was a Bichon Frise)............
By the way Ruby is beautiful no mater what color she is...
|Thanks all for the comments...she may have had some sort of mange or something because they dipped her in something that turned her yellow. I have a date with the groomer tomorrow to shave her down a little...not to the skin but an inch or two...she looks good underneath the yellow...hopefully I will post some good picks of her a bright white sometime soon.
|Well just heard back from the breeder and they used PERMETHRIN+10 as a flea dip.
Anybody used this before or heard of it? I thought this was an product to use around the house and yard but I don't know about dipping a dog in it.
|Here is what I found on the stuff they used......
"Liquid Permethrin 10% Concentrate is labeled for use in non-food areas indoors and outside premises of hotels, motels, homes, preschools, nurseries, day camps, greenhouses, seed houses, commercial, industrial, office institutional and storage buildings, dairies, milk storage rooms, swine houses, campers, mobile homes, buses, automobiles, trucks, and boxcars, dog kennels, horse stables.
Listed for use on applying directly on animals, beef cattle, horses, sheep, goats, swine, poultry, dogs and others.
MOSQUITOES, MOSQUITOES, MOSQUITOES, House Flies, cockroaches, crickets, silverfish, clover mites, millipeds, centipeds, earwigs, sowbugs, spiders, brown dog ticks, lone star ticks, ants, fire ants, clothes moths, carpet beetles, fleas, boxelder bugs, scorpions, spider beetles, bedbugs, grasshoppers, gants, bees, wasps, hornets, fruit flies, cluster flies, and many other beetles and moths.
I have heard of it for use for getting rid of mosquitoes.....we actually called an exterminator about using this and he recommended that we not use this because of the kids and the dogs......Our pesticide rules are really strict here......so maybe that is why.
|So shouldn't put it around food areas because we might eat it but we can put it on the dog...you know he won't bite or lick himself and ingest the chemicals...this doesn't make since to me...what are people thinking some times.
I am glad she is doing better then...that stuff probably was making her sick.
|It is also one of the ingredients in K9 Advantix, but you dont apply that one all over the dog....just on the back of the neck.
Here is another link on the toxidity of permethrin....
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