AGGRESSIVE OLD ENGLISH SHEEP DOG

I need some serious help with my 7 month old OES. He is lovable sometimes however if we try to make him do anything he doesnt want to do he tries to bite us. And its not jsut a nip he has actually drawn blood on my husband. I have 2 small children and I am afraid of him attacking them, so he has to stay outside now most of the time. I am afraid I may have to give him up. Has anyone else had this problem with this breed? I have had 2 OES before and neither of them were like this at such a young age.
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This can be a problem with OES and unfortunately has become increasingly more common. Alot of these behaviors can be a result of poor breeding and/or improper training - however - it can also be a sign of medical problems such as hypothryoidism.

I would urge you to contact Grannie Annie @ NEOESR (New England Old English Sheepdog Rescue) - grannie.annie@neoesr.org - she will be able to offer advice and if necessary (and unavoidable) help with placement.

Please contact her soon - as leaving your pup outside to avoid this from happening will cause more problems!

Best of Luck!
Kristen
Hi Amilynne,

I'm so sorry that you're going through this with your family. Your children are your first priority-- while dealing with your sheepie may be heartbreaking, it would be nothing in comparison to to dealing with a seriously injured child.

You dog must undertand his position in your pack, and here training is the key. One great way to approach this is that your dog must earn everything. Nothing is free.

Here are some posts you may want to read. The first one has some advice and some more posts to read. All of these links will open in a new window, and take you right to the post with the advice, you can scroll around and see the question above it, and some further responses. Then you should be able to come right back here to continue on.

http://forum.oes.org/viewtopic.php?p=39 ... thing#3972
http://forum.oes.org/viewtopic.php?p=2662#2662
http://forum.oes.org/viewtopic.php?t=398#1729

Good luck! Let us know how we can help.
i urge you to get a trainer as soon as possible.
i would recommend calling lots of trainers in your area and asking your vet who they would recommend for a trainer who deals with aggression. dont go to group classes and make sure your trainer understands that you need help with aggression not just basic obedience.

my dog walter is aggressive and going on his third trainer. he has improved dramatically but we still hav issues. you have to be dedicated and ready to work very hard with your pup.

if you need advice or want to talk to someone whos been through similar problems you can private message me or email me at gwarmaggot@yahoo.com
Lil Walty wrote:
i urge you to get a trainer as soon as possible.


The right "trainer" is required to deal with this - as some training methods will make this behavior much worse! Please be sure that you only seek the advice from a trainer who does positive reinforcement training. Do not use any form of punishment or forceful training techniques - which many of the one on one trainers will suggest.

I would get the advice of an expert (like Grannie Annie) who has dealt with these types of issues with many of the dogs she's had in Rescue - as well as with many dogs she's helped to prevent them coming into rescue!
AMILYNNE wrote:
I need some serious help with my 7 month old OES. He is lovable sometimes however if we try to make him do anything he doesnt want to do he tries to bite us. And its not jsut a nip he has actually drawn blood on my husband. I have 2 small children and I am afraid of him attacking them, so he has to stay outside now most of the time. I am afraid I may have to give him up. Has anyone else had this problem with this breed? I have had 2 OES before and neither of them were like this at such a young age.
help i don"t know what to do my oes is 18 months old he can be very sweet and very mean he don't let my other dog eat he attacks him i can't even walk him if he hear loud nosies (big trucks) he trys running after the tires he drags me if he see a colored person he try to attack them what am to do he mean with my children there scared of him they don't know if he gonna be nice or bite them he can be nice
This saddens me greatly to see so many aggression problems cropping up in this breed. :( I have no advice to offer, as I have never dealt with it myself, I only ever had one aggressive dog, who was part shepard, part wolf, and part rottweiler. After four months I had to give him up as he was attacking everyone, and threatening my daughter who was an infant at the time.
I've never met an aggressive oes though... and I will certainly keep this very much in mind as the time approaches to begin raising oes. How horrible for these wonderful dogs, and how heartbreaking for their owner to go through this, certainly not what one would expect when choosing this loving clownish breed. :(
Just a stab in the dark...but it seems that the harsher the punishment with sheepies, the more aggressive they become. They seem to respond to loving hugs and kisses. They are strong-willed, but respond better to positive reinforcement.
Anonymous wrote:
AMILYNNE wrote:
I need some serious help with my 7 month old OES. He is lovable sometimes however if we try to make him do anything he doesnt want to do he tries to bite us. And its not jsut a nip he has actually drawn blood on my husband. I have 2 small children and I am afraid of him attacking them, so he has to stay outside now most of the time. I am afraid I may have to give him up. Has anyone else had this problem with this breed? I have had 2 OES before and neither of them were like this at such a young age.
Luna is our first OES and we find her to be very agreesive at times. The rougher you play with her the rougher she gets. She constantly wants to really bite hard. When I plsy with her all i do is roll in the grass with her and try to push her away(playfully) and she gets very agressive. At times she can be really calm and all of a sudden she just changes to agressive.
She constantly bites your feet and clothes ..We tell her NO and she just gets worst.
What do we do.
thank you to everyone who has replied to my problem. I did get a trainer and things have improved slightly however he still is very aggressive. We may have to find him a home with no children so that those poeple have more time to spend with him and work with him. Unfortunatley with 2 small children and work I do not have the time that it takes to put in the efffort that this dog needs. Thanks again for all of your help.
I'm so sorry to hear you may have to get rid of him, but please, if you do, please go through oes rescue to make sure he is properly placed and won't have to go through this again.
Luna wrote:
Luna is our first OES and we find her to be very agreesive at times. The rougher you play with her the rougher she gets. She constantly wants to really bite hard. When I plsy with her all i do is roll in the grass with her and try to push her away(playfully) and she gets very agressive. At times she can be really calm and all of a sudden she just changes to agressive.
She constantly bites your feet and clothes ..We tell her NO and she just gets worst.
What do we do.


How old is Luna? Is she spayed?

I would enroll in a positive reinforcement obedience class! Depending on her age - you may want to see if there is a medical cause to this behavior (hypothyroidism, etc.). I would not recommend any "rough play" - she doesn't know when to stop being rough and you may be confusing her. I would also recommend reading the book The Dog Listener: Learn How to Communicate with Your Dog for Willing Cooperation, by Jan Fennell!

Kristen
Willowsprite wrote:
I'm so sorry to hear you may have to get rid of him, but please, if you do, please go through oes rescue to make sure he is properly placed and won't have to go through this again.



I echo this! Please make sure you get an OES Rescue involved!!! I'm sorry that you have to part with him - but I'm glad that you know when you can't handle something and you plan on doing what is best for the dog!

Kristen
At first I was about to diatribe how impossible this could possibly be. I have had 3 OES. I know this breed well.

Then I remembered seeing one brute of an OES, my second dog's father. A front page champion and I have never seen one this scary. Plus it was also the largest OES I have ever seen, he was huge. Almost the size of a small pony, and overly protective. Probably an alpha male of alpha males. He was only dangerous to strangers when people arrived and would never pose a threat to the owners. I had to stay in the car until the breeder came out of the house to give the all clear.

It is easy to make a dog aggressive but difficult to bring them back is my belief than what can be learned can be unlearned. The worst case is having to put them down I hate to say.

However profoundly rare, as almost all OES are exceptionally loving and affectionate. The one I have now is as gentle and affectionate as any I have ever had, yet she leaps huge distances in a single bound and has a deep ringing bark when some one knocks at the door (they all barked when some one knocked). My first was a male who was more aggressive, he wouldn't bark as if to say make my day and just spring into action. I loved him to bits, almost as much this one I have now. With my first, I had 2 episodes, one where a teen jumped the fence when my 3 year old was playing the the yard. He hopped back just as fast in horror, didn't break skin but the mom freaked, put him in quarantine for a week, and another time when the delivery person used the inside handle to close the door behind them...Just doing their jobs and certainly wouldn't kill anyone unless they were trying to kill the owner. Males are more aggressive but otherwise fine with people and other dogs, as all are. That's why i was going to initially respond with impossible, until i considered a few past episodes.

It may take a few or 6 years to prove they do their job and you may never know unless they are called on but you can bet your boots they will protect. All of them. As for dangerous, unless you are attacking their master, none of them. I feel that they are by far the most gentle dogs on earth.

As for learning to be defiant, none can be broken, they all want to lead the pack, just let them know early who leads. It may be a matter of retraining to teach who the pack leader really is. I hate shock collars as a means of last resort when it comes to training but they do work and are life savers in many circumstances. I would never want to break an OES' spirit but if they become aggressive with the owner on simple commands, this may be the medicine they need, to tame any undesired aggressive outbursts. Ideally by some one who knows how to train dogs, you never ever zap them for anything minor or at random, and vibrating after zapped only once is all you need. They remember.

Almost impossible to get anything but a gentle and affectionate OES but if you do, even they can be a glorious gem that simply needs some obedience training and then kept away from strangers. Exceptionally rare to find such an OES, last one was a show champ in Canada made front page with a larger photo than our PM at the time. Some would die to have one like this. Personally I love the pets I had, and brace yourself when they go, expect a major heartbreak every 13 years, which is why I waited a few years in between each dog.

Dare I say in light of all this: An aggressive OES? Impossible!!! :wink:
Hello. I have not been on here for a long time it seems-life gets in the way but had spare 30min so thought have a look. This email caught my eye. My daughter did have an aggressive oes, I am afraid she did shout a lot and he hated it, he would grumble at meand I would tell him to be quiet and that was that but when she had prem twins he got a lot worse. He was scared to go out of the house and got worse with her and her husband. Had home trainer, vet advise from on here but in the end we had to take that horrid trip to the vet. It turned out he had a brain tumor that was pressing on "wrong bits" causing the problem-poor boy, it was so sad. I told daughter that he knew he had a problem and couldn't get it across to them what it was-it was just the way he would behave- He had to bite her bad to show this as he didn't want to hurt the twins who he did accept and never made a sound by them but we couldn't be sure-to much of a risk. She learnt a lot from that experience and when they got another sheepie(making him my Sprox's nephew rather than brother) she approached the training how we suggested etc and has a wonderful pup. He knows his place is bottom of the list. The only problem he has is if one of the twins venture to far from the other one he has to shove them together again which they don't mind at all. We are on our 4th one, all have had different "querks" but all much the same as well. Wonderful dogs that you do need to be firm and gentle with.xx :tea: :wag:
leah wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
AMILYNNE wrote:
I need some serious help with my 7 month old OES. He is lovable sometimes however if we try to make him do anything he doesnt want to do he tries to bite us. And its not jsut a nip he has actually drawn blood on my husband. I have 2 small children and I am afraid of him attacking them, so he has to stay outside now most of the time. I am afraid I may have to give him up. Has anyone else had this problem with this breed? I have had 2 OES before and ner of them were like this at such a young age.

I have a 2 yr old oes and he us very aggressive
He has bitten me my husband and my children . He is very aggressive over his food u cannot even walk by him or he will lunge and bite u. He cannot be out around people if we have visitors because he will jump all over them. Im pretty sure we will be sending him back to his breeder .
That is such a shame but you can't take a risk when there re children around. Some dogs just don't "do" family life. Where abouts in the world are you? Is there an oes shelter anywhere near you that you could visit to see how they care for them etc? it may help you. My friend did that because she had an German shepherd like that-she did learn a lot and still has him-he has never attacked anyone since she gained some knowledge as she know knows how to handle him in various situations. I do strongly advise you seek help.xx
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