puppy peeing in sleep and all the time

Hi, I have a 4 month old, Old English Sheepdog that pees in her sleep almost every time. I'll wake up in the middle of the night to find her sleeping in a big puddle of pee. She has been doing it since I've had her(got her at 8 weeks) She also pees very often and can't hold it at all. I've taken her to 2 different vets. Both times they found crystals in her urine. She was put on clavamox to clear up the uti, but it didn't help. She even pees when shes awake, when laying down. I'm constantly cleaning her backside because it's usually soaked with urine. Also sometimes at night, she seems sore and has a hard time getting up. The vet did blood work and when I spoke to the lab tec, she said that the red blood cells came back different. I've spent a lot of money, and now the vet says I should see a specialist. I spoke to the breeder and she thinks the best thing to do is ship the pup back to her,so she can figure this out and help her.( Shes been breeding them for over 30 years and is a vet tec) She said she'd give us a new pup in a couple of months. My family really loves THIS dog. She really is a wonderful dog, but I just want whats best for us and the pup. I keep thinking it's something shes going to outgrow, but it is so frustrating when not even the vet can give me an answer. We called the breeder last night and told her we'd ship she back this week, but this morning she woke up dry. Now I'm having second thoughts. Shes still peeing when awake and laying down. Has anyone ever had this problem with their puppy? Any suggestions would be appreciated.
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I am sorry that you are going through this.

I think only a specialist can determine what is going on. Maybe the breeder can help compensate your expenses if you don't want to send her back.

Was wondering if the breeder noticed a problem at all when she had the pup with her? It might be something as serious as an internal birth defect, but it is something that would have been going on with the pup the whole time as I understand it. There is a possibility that surgeries are available that can correct the problem, but I have no idea of the expense.
I'm really sorry to hear that you're having those kind of problems. I can definitely commiserate. Though he didn't have any health problems, when our OES was a pup, he did the same thing. Peed all the time. In his crate, out of his crate, on himself, he'd pee then go to sleep in it-- all the time everywhere. We did all the right things in terms of housetraining but, for some reason, he just loved to pee. We had him checked for UTIs, JRD and did blood work but he turned out to be fine, just a pee machine. Around 6 months old, all the excessive peeing stopped. Something just clicked with him and to this day, I don't know what. I don't want to give you false hope that this may also be the case with your puppy, but I thought I'd share just in case.
I can't offer any help but I am sorry your are going through this. Best of luck on whatever you decide.

Becky
I have 11 month old Sophie who has similar peeing in her sleep issues. She also seems to have a much smaller bladder capacity than my other OES. Sophie would leak urine when she slept if she had been playing really hard and was really tired. We took her out tons and tons and tons, with plenty of time to pee multiple times. Since it happened in her sleep, we knew it wasn't voluntary. Vet checks and urinalysis ruled out infections. It gradually stopped around 4-5 months, but when we had her spayed at 6 months, it came back.

It is not uncommon for spayed females to have problems with urinary incontinence. This is one reason we nearly delayed having her spayed, but my concerns over an accidental pregnancy and all the risks that would have entailed for a very young dog made me decide that some problems with urinary incontinence (which can be treated with medication) was a better choice than an unwanted pregnancy. Sophie is on medication and this is controlling the incontinence very well. She still seems to have a smaller bladder capacity than my other dogs, but that's workable. The medication is not expensive and my understanding is that over time, often the dosage can be decreased.

If your puppy has been spayed, this may be contributing. I mention this because I know that early spays and neuters are much more common than they used to be.

However, the presence of crystals in her urine samples suggests there may be another problem. I would do what your vet suggested and take her to the specialist. You can decide from there what you want to do: return her to the breeder or work through her problems yourselves.

In any case, please let us know how things go. Best of luck to both of you.
Here is more info about the OES puppy with the birth defect I was referring to that had similar symptoms to your puppy. As mentioned, the constant wetting was noticed very early, about 4 or 5 weeks:

It was an ectopic bladder which means the bladder was sitting in the pelvis. She also only had one kidney.

Also, this person mentioned that some young bitches have an inverted vagina and are incontinent until they come into heat. Their vulvas are so small and they must mature for it to be OK. Some never get better and live their lives with infections and problems, some are fine after about a year.

I'm assuming that they also ruled out an infection. Not just a urine test to see if there is an infection, a full culture test so they can get her on the correct antibiotic. Cornell University uses Cephalexin for 6 weeks.

I know you mentioned that you are in NJ. Not sure if North or South but we're always up for doggie playdates when your pup grows up a little. There is also a Philly Picnic every May, about 40 minutes north of CC Philly.
Thanks so much for all the input. My vet did mention a ectopic bladder. She said that they still have to run more tests and get an xray. I'm sorta at the point of which way do I go? Make a gamble and spend a lot of money to hope that it's nothing big, or get another pup and hope it will be ok. She didn't pee in her sleep for the second night(which is great) but shes wanting to go out every 1/2 hour. Is that normal? How many times should a 4 month old pup go pee a day?
Every half an hour sure was pretty normal for us.
stripes wrote:
but shes wanting to go out every 1/2 hour. Is that normal? How many times should a 4 month old pup go pee a day?


Rule of thumb is 1 hour they can hold it for every month until they reach adulthood. So she should be able to hold it for 4 hours, unless of course she has been drinking a lot of water. Sounds like she's really trying though. It's great that she lets you know when she wants to go out.
I should probably mention, too, Clyde would never stop drinking. We had to limit his water intake because he'd suck down everything we put down, and then either pee or puke up what he didn't process. Frankly, I think he just loved to pee.
My breeder said they need and love a lot of water. I did limit the water for a while, but it didn't help. I think she might get dehydrated if I limit it. Wow, shes never been able to hold it 4 hours. I'll keep you all updated. Thanks again.
YES I've heard of this problem.
I'll post more in a minute...
stripes wrote:
My breeder said they need and love a lot of water. I did limit the water for a while, but it didn't help. I think she might get dehydrated if I limit it. Wow, shes never been able to hold it 4 hours. I'll keep you all updated. Thanks again.


That's not necessarily true. You don't want to dehydrate a pup but limiting excess water won't hurt her either and will do wonders with potty training.

I really had to search for this formula that I posted before. This is what our vet recommended when we were having our troubles:
Quote:
The exact formula given to us by the vet (and I've done further research which supports this) is 90ml of water per kg of body weight and even then there's a bit of fluctuation.
YES I've heard of this problem.

Wow... sorry. It took longer than a minute. :oops: I think the normal basic approach is restricting water after say 7pm (unless weather is extremely hot or the pup/dog is ill) then taking the pup out immediately before bedtime. Maybe a time or two through the night also. Taking the pup out immediately after it wakes up, immediately after eating/drinking, in the middle of play and after play, etc.

If this doesn't work, the next step is to check for a urinary tract infection or struvite crystals by examining a urine sample.

If none of the regular stuff has worked, you may want to discuss with your vet the possibility of an anatomical defect called a Persistent Urachus. When pups are invetro, there is a tube that runs from the bladder through the umbilical cord and to the mother that allows the puppy to rid it's system of urine products. After birth the urachus is supposed to close up or seal off. A problem occurs when it does not close properly.

If the urachus persists, it can stretch out the bladder as the pup gowns affecting the pup's ability to control urination. It tethers the bladder to the abdominal wall. PLEASE read the case study at the following address-

Source: http://www.moorabbinvet.com.au/tour/pages/urachus.html

"...In this case we were presented with a 5 month old female puppy that was urinary incontinent. This means she had very limited ability to control her urination. She would dribble urine almost continually inside the house meaning she would have to be delegated to the garden most of the time. This was quite distressing to the owners who wanted the pup as a house pet..."

The only reason I know a bit about this subject is because we JUST dealt with another form of this condition. Panda, our 2 year old rescue, had struvite crystals ever since we adopted her. She's had several recurrent urinary tract infections and several antibiotics. We had x-rays done to see if any stones were present but none were found so we had an ultrasound done. The ultrasound showed the "ventral bladder was pushed up". The double contrast study and finally surgery confirmed this condition "created an outpouching of the bladder preventing the bladder from draining or emptying completely therefore making infection more likely".

Panda had her surgery around February 12th, then a repeat emergency surgery when the sutures failed (of course that would happen to Panda). After the surgery, she had peed in the house a few times but it was to be expected because of the irritation to the bladder. She hasn't wet in the house since she recovered so we're keeping our fingers crossed that this will be the "cure" for recurrent UTIs and struvite crystals. http://www.oesusa.com/Page97.html

You can read more about it here-
http://animal.discovery.com/guides/heal ... achus.html
"The most common developmental abnormality of the puppy bladder is a persistent urachus."

It may be the most common condition in the puppy bladder but NO ONE I've talked to has ever heard of it (outside of the vets). Good information was very difficult find on the Internet. "Inability to housetrain" was one of the "issues" Panda had when she was given up for a 3rd time.

If you do send her back, please ask what they will do with her. It sounds like the breeder is a good, responsible one but if they don't want her, please contact me. Maybe OES rescue will take her.

If you need more information, please let me know. Again, only your vet will be able to tell you if this might be a cause. Good luck.
I'm sorry you're having this problem. Peeing puppies are no fun! Like Jill, Barney was a pee-er. And he had a drinking problem. When we got him we wanted him to always have a nice flow of fresh water, so we got him one of those mini water cooler water bowls that the water cooler is upside down and lets in the fresh water into the bowl.

Well, not only would this contribute to Barney peeing all the time, he's also drink and drink and drink until he threw up. So, we made sure to give him plenty of water, but on a schedule (which varied depending on what we were doing). He brought it out at breakfast and dinner and maybe at lunch and then just let him drink, and then distract him so he wouldn't drink too much and puke.

Eventually it worked and he now can hold his bladder for crazy amounts of time, is allowed to have his water out all day now, and USUALLY doesn't drink until he throws up!

I hope your baby is just a pee machine and that nothing is really medically wrong. Poor girl :cry:
ME TOOOOOO

Many years I had a wonderful cocker spanial, Buffy. Buffy was the best dog and easily housebroken. One problem, he peed at night in his bed almost every night. It was quite a puzzle.

We started with our Vet who did all kinds of (expensive) tests. Unable to determine anyting being wrong he referred us to Cornell Vet College. Buffy went to Cornell and HUNDREDS of dollars later there was still NOTHING FOUND.

The day we picked him up the Vet told us that every possible problem had been investigated and there was no reason found for his nightly incontinence. He said there was a possiblity that he could out grow it.

Sure enough, as he got older it became less frequent and by the time he was 8 or 9 months old he had out grown it. He was simply a bed wetter.
Sorry about all those BIG letters :oops:

When I read that stripes might have to ship the pup back I thought if I typed reeeally big she or he could hear of a possible cause even if they weren't online right now :roll:
barney1 wrote:
I'm sorry you're having this problem. Peeing puppies are no fun! Like Jill, Barney was a pee-er.


Hey! I've got my peeing under control! :D
Thanks for taking the time to look up that info. I hope it works out with your dog. It sounds like you went through a lot. I asked my breeder what she would do with her, and she wants to get her better. She has rescued many oes dogs, so I'm not worried that something bad would happen to her. She works with vets, so she could probably get it figured out. I just want to make sure that if it's something easy to treat, I'd fix it here and keep her. But, if it's something to big, (it breaks my heart) but I think we'd be better off with a healthy dog.
Thanks again for all the input
You are absolutely doing the right thing!! I think it is wonderful that you have a breeder who is helping you and willing to take the puppy back. If this dog does have problems, you will all be better off.

Good Luck and I hope you do find the perfect sheepie for you!
Panda's first surgery cost over $800 so it's definitely best for the breeder to handle this (IF it's even the cause). She sounds like a good person that truly cares about sheepies :D You might want to ask the breeder about the possibility of a persistent urachus causing these symptoms so she can check into it when the pup arrives... it can save a lot of time, testing and money if you know what to look for.
ButtersStotch wrote:
barney1 wrote:
I'm sorry you're having this problem. Peeing puppies are no fun! Like Jill, Barney was a pee-er.


Hey! I've got my peeing under control! :D


:roll: I swear sometimes... :roll:
ButtersStotch wrote:
barney1 wrote:
I'm sorry you're having this problem. Peeing puppies are no fun! Like Jill, Barney was a pee-er.


Hey! I've got my peeing under control! :D



:lol:
We have a friend going throught that exact problem. What heppen to your pup? :?: 8O
(Bump.)

Hi, I'm new to the forum. I'm looking for some advice related to this topic.

My dog Hermione has had incontinence issues since she was spayed. Our Vet put her on Proin (100mg a day) and that cleared it up. Trouble is, now the vet says Hermione's blood pressure is too high, and so has cut the dose in half, and it's not working. I guess the next step/resort is some sort of hormone treatment, and I'm worried about the cost and the effects. Has anyone else here been down this road? Hermione is 2.5 years old.

Thanks!
There are some alternatives to the Proin for the spay incontinence. See this article:

http://www.dogaware.com/incontinence.html
THANK YOU!!!!
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