Its been a while since i posted
She has now just turned 9 months old and is still growing.... 
I cant say she has shown any signs of slowing down at all in anything she does, chases me constantly and tries to herd me everywhere i go but she is just too adoreable to try and stop her. She is half way through her first season (turning into a lady) and she is doing just fine. I am thinking of having her *done* after this season. Not sure if its the right thing to do or not, so any helpfull comments would be appreciated. The kids are getting on fine with her now, but she is still the leapy sheepie that bounces the kids about when they visit and she can be a little rumbustical (come to think about it, she is like that with everyone in the house) 
We are happy as hell with her.   |
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| By having her done do you mean having her spayed? I found my first sheepie Mickey did settle somewhat after being spayed, but not a whole lot! They are just big furry clowns for life!
Glad to hear Effie is doing well.... I think because they are so cute is one of my biggest training hinderances... how can she take me seriously as I say 'no, bad girl!' when she takes the sugar bowl off the counter and runs like hell, when I can't stop laughing??  |
| Unless you plan on breeding her, I'd say have her spayed. Our vet recommended earlier rather than later. She says it's much easier on them. Also, when I did finally get around to having Lizzie done, the vet called to tell me tha they'd found cysts on her ovaries, and if we hadn't had her spayed, it would have caused a lot of problems for her in the near future. Just something to think about... |
| HI BULLSHOT!
It has been awhile since you posted. Got you hands full of a sheepie did ya.
I am glad to hear Effie is doing so well. I think it is time for some updated pictures. hint, hint. LOL I agree with everyone, if you are not planning on breeding, then having her spayed would be best. I would love to hear some more Effie stories. Stormi and co. |
| Yes, i did mean having here spayed, i hear a lot on this forum about problems with them after the opp with incontinence.......i sure dont want her to go through the rest of her life with that, bless her, its just not fair on her.
Both my wife and i are absolutely convinced we dont want to breed from her, i know a lot of people who are screaming out for quality KC registered Sheepies but i just dont want to go through the hasstle and pain of having to pass the pups over 
I will certainly post some more pictures of her when i get a few free moments (and sort out a good free hosting site) as Fotopic are now restricting the access  As for the stories of her life so far, again when i have more time, i am very busy right now with my new job and it is shooting season here in the UK so we are out on a very regular basis, Effie *believe it or not* loves to come out shooting with me  she will sit in a hide, or will walk for miles at heel, lay down when i get down with the rifles to take a shot......it does make a lot of my shooting mates laugh a lot to see a Sheepie as a gun trained dog. Ok she dont go and fetch nor will she ever be a gun dog, but to have one who happily walks at heel and doesnt mind loud bangs is very unusual. |
| Hi,
There are some major health problems with not spaying (i.e. mammary cancer) - that in my opinion - are more concerning than incontinence. Also - not all spayed dogs have problems with incontinence - and even when they do it can easily be treated. There are differing views - one of which says wait until after their first heat - which is what you've done! So -if you don't plan on breeding - I'd make the appointment for her to be spayed. Kristen |
| Bullshot, a great free site that still allows remote linking is photobucket.
www.photobucket.com My first sheepie used to pretend to be a hunting dog....lol.... she didn't like the gunshot, but she didn't mind it too much either, and if a bird was not in the water she would retrieve it, very softmouthed about it too. In the water, no way, she couldn't swim, sank like a rock. |
| britpressyd.... it really did alarm me the first time I found out about the very high numbers of sheepdogs who have incontinence after being spayed. I think it's horrible, and I wonder why this breed and not other breeds? It their bladder located differently? Is the urethra to short or too long? Or, like many believe, it is because nerves were damaged during tail docking? After a spay the hormone needed to keep the urinary tract healthy and strong are missing. Perhaps that effect it sped along by a tail dock that was done improperly? |
| Hi, this is a website referring to waiting until after the first heat and incontinence. It also refers to the OES. I just took out a small excerpt of the article. Stormi and co.
At what age should the operation be done? The ideal time time to spay is 6 weeks after the first season ends. A recent large survey of spayed bitches, showed that spaying after the first season caused a lower incidence of incontinence, particularly in certain breeds (eg Old English Sheepdog, Golden Retrievers and Gordon Setters). The incidence of mammary tumours is reduced by spaying before the second season. It is possible to spay bitches at other stages in their cycle - but do discuss this with the vet first. Dogs need not be castrated routinely unless particular problems are encounted such as vagrancy, over-sexed behaviour, or pining when bitches nearby are on heat. They may be castrated at any age and it is always best to discuss your reasons with the vet or Penny Jackson, our behavioural counsellor. It is always best to vaccinate dogs and bitches first against the major dog diseases. For many years it was accepted that bitches should be spayed after their first season. It is now thought, however, that spaying them before this first season, at 4-5 months is simpler and causes no more side effects. In fact, the incidence of mammary (breast) cancer can be reduced. It is always best to vaccinate bitches first against the major dog diseases. Dogs need not be castrated routinely unless particular problems are encountered such as vagrancy, over-sexed behaviour, or pining when bitches nearby are on heat. They may be castrated at any age and it is always best to discuss your reasons with the vet or Penny Jackson, our behavioural counsellor. |
| Here is the site Stormi's article refers to
thanks Stormi! 
http://www.millhousevets.co.uk/faq/dogne.htm |
| Here is another webite I found with some detailed info on incontinence, and it also states that old english, as well as dobermans, boxers, weimeraners, schnauzers etc are especially prone to this problem.
http://www.infopet.co.uk/pages/5031a.htm |
| I had a lengthy conersation about this with a Vet - who also breeds Bearded Collies about this subject. She's on the side of spaying AFTER the first heat. She states that the occurance of incontinence can occur in both early and late spaying. Since it is treated with hormones - it would appear to have to do with a lack of hormones. The risk increases in age of the dog (regardless of when they were spayed). There are alot of other issues - vaginal hyperplasia (immature vulva) that were discussed. I questioned whether surgical skill during the procedure was a factor - and she didn't feel it was.
She recommends spaying 6 weeks after the 1st heat! Others I have spoken too, and they were OES experts, recommend before the 1st heat (@ around 6 months). Like I have said, I'm on the before the 1st heat side of things - due to the mammary cancer issue. I'd much prefer to deal with the other possible problems that may be linked to spaying before the 1st heat. Please be aware that alot of the studies done on "early spaying" are referring to puppies being spayed at 6-8 weeks old (that's what some refer to as early spaying - so be sure to check out the details of any study). Kristen |
| It is proven though, through many studies, that incontinence DOES happen at a much higher frequency in dogs who are spayed before their first heat. As for the mammary cancer issues, I believe that is gene related anyway, and a dog who has had cancer of any form should never have been allowed to have puppies in the first place. I haven't looked into it yet, but I wonder what the frequency is of mammary or uterine cancer is in young dogs who are say, 10 months old and haven't yet been spayed. It's not like waiting for the first heat to pass is going to be when the dog is 2-3 years old etc. They are still puppies usually at their first heat, between 7-12 months of age in most cases. |
| The stats on mammary cancer is as follows.
105 out of 100,000 dogs will develop mammary tumors. 50% of those tumors detected will be benign. 45-50% will be malignant. A dog who is spayed before her first heat has less than a 1% chance of developing mammary cancer. A dog who is spayed after her first heat has about an 8% chance of developing it. A dog who is spayed after her second heat has the same chance as an unspayed dog, about 25%. |
| I don't know the statistics, but the numbers you posted are quite interesting.
105 out of 100,000 is about 1 out of 1,000, or .1% or 1/10th of 1 percent. A dog spayed after her first heat has an 8% chance, or 80 times higher than the average? A dog either not spayed or spayed after her second heat has a 25% chance, or 250 times higher than the average? And a dog who is spayed before her first heat has "less than 1%". How much less? Given the overall .1% incidence and the other statistics, it would have to be very very much under 1%. Also, what are the stats on how many dogs are not spayed, or spayed and when? Are the vast majority of dogs spayed, and spayed before their first heat? This would have to be the case in order to make these numbers work. (If only 105 get a tumor then less than 400 out of 100,000 dogs would have to be unspayed.) I wonder about these numbers... to me they just don't add up. Did you find these on the web somewhere? Thanks! |
| Here is one site that has more details on the studies conducted and more exact stats
http://www.infopet.co.uk/pages/5031a.htm I'm trying to find the other one... |
| Here is the other one I found
http://www.irishdogs.ie/Information/vet ... 20Spay.htm |
| We have had a long consultation with our vet, and she reccomends the 6 weeks after the first season/heat.
How long are they in heat for? this is now her 3rd week ...lol, she is taking it in her stride as all good ladies do, but we are keen to get her into the *barbers shop* to get her into the summer coat routine as its starting at long last to be summer here in the UK. I sure dont want to take her there in heat
Thanks for all the info, and ron is right, some of it is a little conflicting but i am sure that the 6 week after process will be right, afterall we had our Beardie done at that point with no ill effects. I will keep you all posted, oh and thaks for that website addy, im going there now to take a peek |
| Sounds like a good plan.... most dogs are in heat for 3-4 weeks. |
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