Chummie update: Serious problem / Scary solution
Interestingly, the philly docs had noted some compression lower down in her spine but said it wasn't sufficient to cause her symptoms. The CSU docs say they didn't look up high enough and didn't do the side to side cross-section view, which made the problem more evident. The CSU doc said that this is probably a congenital condition that she has been compensating for all of her life but that minor injuries or stress can be overwhelming and unmanageable (which is why her symptoms flare up and then lessen from time to time). They said perhaps bony changes have made it worse over time too. They don't see spinal cord "death" or other signs of permanent injury but they say without surgical intervention, she will remain in pain and that minor injuries (from slipping and falling -- which she does every day) could cause her spinal column to sever. . . The treatment is a rather scary spinal surgery. They think she has good chances because her organs and other systems are very healthy and because she shows such good energy and vitality. But they say it is a dangerous surgery and roughly 1 in 30 dogs don't survive it. . . I am glad to know what the cause is and I guess I am confident that Chum's strength will get her through the surgery. But I guess I also fear that I will be kicking myself with "she wasn't that bad off" if she doesn't make it. . . |
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I'm keeping my paws crossed for Chummie's safe recovery!  |
| Val, I love the Chummie stories.
You have done such a wonderful job of watching over her and doing the best for her. Personally, I think the swimming has been getting her in shape to undergo the surgery and for the wonderful activities you two will do afterwards. So, 29 out of 30 do survive the surgery and do well? Pretty good odds for any procedure. What will her recovery routine be? If any of us could get our furkids through in good spirits, it would be you. Positive thoughts and healing prayers headed your way. |
| I too, have enjoyed the stories and photos of Chummie...wishing her the best ! |
| Oh my - what a serious solution. I will be thinking of your guys and hoping Chummie will be great after the surgery - can you imagine her being able to have some pain-free days? Bingley sends some sheepie hugs.
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| I feel bad for poor Chummie. I hope everything goes well. I'd be scared out of my mind, but I guess due to your excellent care.... she should do just fine. I'll have my fingers crossed.
Your new avatar totally makes me smiled when combined with reading your threads. |
Joahaeyo wrote: Your new avatar totally makes me smiled when combined with reading your threads.
Perfect! That was my goal!  |
I swore I hit edit and corrected that (smiled). 
Oh well. |
| I didn't notice. Nor had I noticed your ADORABLE avatar! I love it! |
| Wishing lots of luck and best wishes to Chummie. |
Best of luck to you Chummie  |
| I hope the surgery fixes Chummie so she can live to a very old age. |
| Thanks everyone. I hope it is the right thing to do. . . It sounds like the current situation is so precarious (without surgery) and that she is hiding quite a bit of pain. And sometimes, it is too much for her to hide. She is such a love. I am very worried about my dear girl. Even Maggie is subdued today. |
| It sounds so scary... if it will relieve her pain though I would go for it too. She has such spirit, and seems to be doing so well with the swimming, I bet she'll do wonderfully! |
| VAL ,
BIG*BIG* HUGS FOR CHUMMIE , AND EVEN BIGGER PRAYS ! 
ANTOINETTE |
Sounds so scary to do or not to do.  I hope all goes well, and if it does it will help her so much to be pain free.  The odds sound really good and Chummie is such an amazing sheepie girl with a strong and sweet spirit.
Keeping fingers and paws crossed for you all and sending postivie thoughts and hugs too. |
Wow, what news to get now. 
1 in 30 odds isn't bad. Seeing she could have disasterous luck without it, or at the least alot of chronic pain, I would go for the surgery. good luck Chum! |
I think I would go for it too Val. Hopefully end the problem once & for all. It's the worst having to see our pups suffer, and it sounds like you might be heading down that direction if you don't have it done. Please keep us posted... everybody loves sweet Chum & your avatar is a nice start to my morning.  |
| You definitely have a tough decision to make. But knowing how much what you have already done for her has helped her, it seems like she is in the best condition physically she has been in for a long time. So, that seems like it would increase her odds for success.
I just see that smiling face and can't help thinking she can do it. |
| This is so worrisome, Val. I've got my fingers crossed.
Did they tell you what the percentage is of dogs that come out of this surgery with a poor result? I guess the flipside is how many come out of it with a positive outcome. I ask because a neurosurgeon was once takling about a surgery with me and said "Well, there are always risks with any surgery, especially one on the spine. The issue is that this one the outcomes are not all that good; frequently the problem isn't alleviated." So what's her prognosis with the surgery? |
| Sounds like a tough decision. I am afraid that if you don't do it you will always wonder what if and worry every time she is in pain. What a wonderful gift it would be if Chummie could FINALLY be pain free!!! |
| That does sound like a tough set of circumstances but like Verve said, hopefully this will take care of it.
Her pic in the avatar makes it look like she's saying, "How you doin'?" |
Ron wrote: This is so worrisome, Val. I've got my fingers crossed.
Did they tell you what the percentage is of dogs that come out of this surgery with a poor result? I guess the flipside is how many come out of it with a positive outcome. I ask because a neurosurgeon was once takling about a surgery with me and said "Well, there are always risks with any surgery, especially one on the spine. The issue is that this one the outcomes are not all that good; frequently the problem isn't alleviated." So what's her prognosis with the surgery? I was wondering about this, too. For those dogs who don't do well, is it because they don't survive the surgery itself, or that they don't recover well afterward? |
Wow, Val, what a scary decision to have to make.  It would at least make me feel better to FINALLY know what's been causing Chum's problems.  It was always so puzzling to hear how she was in such bad shape, then all of a sudden she was okay. How could the drs in Philly and LA not have looked at her neck? I'd have some choice words for them! 
Chum's spirits are high, and I agree with everyone who's said that the swimming has probably made her stronger. I also LOVE your new avatar!  I look at that sweet face, and guess who I see?
We're all here for you, friend. |
| Val, My thoughts are with you and Chummie. She IS a strong girl and has a very strong will. When will the surgery be?
Hugs from Panda and me! |
| Well, I guess the good news is that you finally know what has been causing her problems. I agree, I think the 1 in 30 odds are pretty good for her. When do you have to decide? |
| Oh, Val! I'm so sorry you have to make this decision. You have been such a wonderful support for Chum and she does look fantastic when she's swimming. See an older dog can learn new tricks. Of course the decision is yours, but it sounds like the survival rate for the surgery is very high. I'd do it... XOXO |
Chum couldn't have better care than CSU  I can't do justice describing the abilities of the doctors and caring staff.
Best wishes from Ellie and Buff. |
| Wow, that is pretty scary. I'm so glad you finally got a diagnosis. Good luck with everything. Bailey sends big sloppy kisses to Chummie. |
| Thanks everyone! Your support and encouragement really helps. ALOT.
They do seem really caring and nice. From what they said, the pain from this condition is pretty horrible and they think she has been valiantly masking it for years and that I only see it when conditions come together so that it is too much for her to handle.
The surgery will be tomorrow. I am not yet sure what time.
Given the timing, I thought it would be less stressful to leave her there to rest instead of having her agitated back and forth in the car and then going through the separation again. The vet student seemed surprised by my choice but today she called to say she thinks I made the right decision. She said Chum rested peacefully on strong pain meds last night and that this morning, she is bright, cheerful, great appetite, and doing really well, barking loudly and seeking attention (they say she is getting plenty). The student says she sometimes spies on Chum from a place where she can't be seen just to make sure she is resting comfortably -- which she is. I thought that was very sweet. The idea behind the surgery is to remove the pain. They are not sure if full neurological function will return but hopefully, it won't get worse. They think without this pain, her hip condition could be managed through medical care (drugs) rather than surgery. For the dogs that do well, they say it is a huge improvement to quality of life. Of course, there are risks associated with the surgery itself because it is complicated and in a critical area. Some dogs (certain large breeds) survive the surgery but still give up the fight and lose the will to live. She says she doesn't have direct experience with OES and that it is hard to predict which individual dogs will give up but everything about Chum says she is a fighter. And that is definitely consistent with my impression. |
| I also love your avatar, she looks adorable and happy in that picture!
I think trying the procedure would be the nicest thing you can do for Chum, and with her spirit, your devotion, and great doctors I really think you guys can pull through this! |
Maxmm wrote: Her pic in the avatar makes it look like she's saying, "How you doin'?"
LOL! She looks a little drunk to me. . . |
| i hope everything comes through okay, Val. I think she'll do great. She's been living with all this pain for so long, I hope this is the be all-end all cure. We'll be thinking about her. |
| Go Chummie! |
| Val, this may be a stupid thing to say and I don't know much about chummies spinal condition but have you contacted any other ( if there are any by you) alternative Dr's?
Years ago a friend of mine had a Great Dane (about 2 years old) with some bad Problems (similar to chummie's) and we found a chiropractor / acupuncturist that was willing to try and help. He was a people Dr. not Animals, but he did some research and contacted some vets that were willing to help give it a try after office hours at the vets office. Well, to make a long story short, the Dane never had any surgery and as of today is almost 7 years old. She is amazing.The treatments and acupuncture went on for about 3 months 2 to 3 times a week. 
The Dr. ended up moving to another State(I don't know where) but it was to expand his research .I remember him telling me after the work he did on the Dane he felt that he wanted to learn more and try and work with animals also. Just a thought.
Good luck, I will say a big prayer for Chummie !!!!!
Antoinette |
BANDAA wrote: Val, this may be a stupid thing to say and I don't know much about chummies spinal condition but have you contacted any other ( if there are any by you) alternative Dr's?
Definitely not a stupid suggestion. I did try acupuncture with her and it definitely had an effect, but not one that I liked. She whimpered and snapped through all the sessions and afterwards was all wobbly-legged and weak. In contrast, the swimming has made her happier, stronger, and more active. I would not try chiropractics on a dog with her condition (too narrow spinal column) because pressure/movement on the bones would be painful and could lead to permanent spinal injury. |
| I hope Chummie has a speedy recovery! |
Pepsi's Mommy wrote: I hope Chummie has a speedy recovery!
Me too!! |
| OH Yes Val you are right.
I did not think about the chiropractor and the danger that could be involved.
I know what ever you do it will be the right decision. Chummie looks so happy with her swimming I just wish that would make it all better.
Antoinette |
 Val: I am sorry that you and Chummie are going through this, at least you are finally getting some answers to your questions. It is hard to make such a tough decision, but I am sure you will do what you feel will work for Chummie. Please remember that I have both of you in my prayers and I hope only the best for Chummie. She is indeed a special little sheepie who has totally stolen my heart. |
| Val,
I will be thinking of you and Chum tomorrow and hoping for a successful outcome for the surgery.. the only way to think.. is positive thoughts.. she will be alright. It is a risk, but what choice is there. Give her a kiss from us..she will be in our thoughts. Brenda Dudley and Murphy.. |
BANDAA wrote: Chummie looks so happy with her swimming I just wish that would make it all better.
Antoinette If the surgery goes well, they think the swimming will play a big role in managing her hip pain. . . The added strength and mobility has already helped alot. I am going to go for the surgery. I hope I don't regret it. I am going to keep visualizing receiving the news that she has made it through ok. . . If the docs can get her through that part, I really believe she has the willpower to have a great recovery. |
| to Chummie
When are they scheduling her surgery, Val? |
| Val, you made the only decision you could to go through with the surgery. Knowing how much pain she's been masking, you couldn't consciously let it continue. If there's any hope for relief, of course you have to take it.
With Chum's spirit and attitude, I'm confident she'll make it through the surgery with flying colors!! What a happy girl she'll be when she can walk and move her head with no pain!!
We'll all be here on pins and needles tomorrow waiting for the outcome. Big hugs to you and Chum! |
| I hope Chum has a speedy recovery. I know she'll get through the surgery like a champ! |
| Thinking of you gals for tomorrow
Go chum, we know you will do well, postive thoughts flying over for you. |
| I'm hoping we see a happy doggie in no time!! Lots of good thoughts sent your way !!! (((hugs to what i'm sure is a nervous mommy))) |
| We'll be having good thoughts of Chummie's recovery tomorrow too
Hugs |
| I think you're making the right decision. I will be keeping you guys in my thoughts and will give Frank & Rebecca (not Haggis) an extra hug for Chum.
I'm sorry if I missed this in the thread, but do they say how long the recovery time is once she gets past the surgery? I hope you will see an immediate improvement. |
| Positive thoughts and plenty of prayers!!
I'm a nervous wreck.....I can't even imagine what you are going through. She is one lucky girl to have you for a mommy. We will be praying that everything goes well and she recovers quickly. Laurie |
| Hi Valerie,
Apologies for the late response. I am such in awe that you go through all lengths for your girl. Those of us that have been around the forum for a while know how dedicated and loving you've been towards Chummie and her sis. She couldn't have asked for a better mom! As difficult as the choice was to make and I'm sure you're asking yourself a thousands times if you did the right thing - Yes, you did. Chummie deserved that chance to be pain free and I would do the same for my boys. Hugs and thoughts for you tomorrow and it will be the longest work day tomorrow until I return home and read all about Chummie. The boys are sending her the sloppiest kisses.
Marianne and the boys |
Marianne wrote: As difficult as the choice was to make and I'm sure you're asking yourself a thousands times if you did the right thing
You got that right! I've been debating it in my mind all day. I really can't wait to hear how she does tomorrow. On the one hand, I think she was managing OK so why rock the boat. But then the doc told me that the fact that she was doing reasonably well is actually a good thing for her future prognosis. But I won't know for sure until after the surgery. If she makes it (which is horrible to dwell on) they say the next few days will be painful and the next few weeks will be critical. She'll need lots of rest and then hopefully will be able to return to swimming, etc. For now, I am just focused on hoping the surgery is a success. |
| I'll be keeping positive thoughts going for Chummie all day. |
| I keeping my heart and prayers for Chummie, you and Maggie tomorrow and the next few days until we learn how it has gone and the recovery. This is a very generous and brave decision you've made for you little girl. I hope I could do the same.
susan |
| Sending hugs and prayers for Chummie today.
Get well quick baby!
And to you too Val... I know the waiting is so difficult. Jaci |
| I'm thinking of you & Chummie today, Val.
Sending up a prayer for you & your girl. |
| I hope we hear good news soon. Good luck, Chum and Val! |
| Sending Loads of |
| to Chummie, to Val.
We wish the very best for Chum with her surgery today. Simon is sending some healing basset drool your way too - it never fails . |
| I can't stop thinking of you......I pray all is going well |
| I'm thinking of you girls today.... |
| The surgery is not til 11am Mountain Time -- and is expected to take about 3 hours. The student said Chummie was doing great this morning but she sounds really nervous about the surgery. Normally, I would just think that is because she is a student and hasn't seen anything like this before. But the doctor, who has done many of these, said she was a bit scared too. . .
I will let you all know as soon as I know anything. |
| Val, your both in my heart today!
Antoinette |
| sending prayers and good thoughts for you both |
| good luck and prayers |
| Hang in there Val. Our thoughts and prayers are with you and Chummie. If any dog has the spirit to get through this it is Chummie.
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| I am always afraid to come to threads like this one......Stuff like this just scares the daylights out of me.....
It sure sounds like she is in good hands, and with her spirt I am sure that she willl come through fine...She sure deserves the best.. Keeping her quiet and resting while she recovers will be very important, I imagine..... I LOVE Chummie... |
| We're all right here for you, Val. Keeping fingers, toes, arms, legs crossed until we hear of Chum's outcome.
C'mon, Chummie!! You can do it!! |
| Anxiously awaiting news.
Come on Chummie, you can do it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Hugs for you Chums and Maggie!!!!!! |
| I'm sending more prayers, , thoughts, and your way! |
| We're all pulling for Chummie and hoping her surgery goes well.
Looking forward to hearing the good news. |
| Is it just me or does anyone else feel like a close relative has gone in for surgery? I am a nervous wreck!
Anxiously awaiting to hear.....biting my nails! |
| Yeah, me too...I'm checking this thread every 10 min.s!!! |
| Me too, although I just woke up and hoped for news - GOOD news!!!
Hang in there Val and Chum . |
Yes, I keep looking at the clock and wondering how she's doing right now. 
Love ya Chummie! Praying for you darling. |
| Hang in there Val!!!!!!!!!!!!! Hope to hear some gREAT news. |
| Val, Ive been checking in all day too...my thoughts and prayer continue to be with all of you!!
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| No news this morning is NOT good news |
| See Val's other post! |
| Yes, there is good news! I didn't mean to alarm you. I wanted people to know right away so I started a separate thread with a happy subject line:
http://forum.oes.org/viewtopic.php?t=12165 |
| oops, sorry I just woke up (up all night on the ambulance) came dashing to the computer to check on Chummie!!! Haven't even had my coffee yet!!!!!!!!!!!!! So didn't think to check for another thread.
I'll tell you this now, since it's all good news..... as soon as I logged on the first thing I did was check to make sure the "black border" didn't pop up WHEW!!!!!!!!!!!!! |
| Me too. That was my fear yesterday.....but YAY! it's good news! |
| I am thinking of Chummie, and Dixie sends lots of sloppy kisses. No dog deserves to be in pain. God Speed |
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