OES Questions from the Philippines
I'm John from the Philippines and this is the first time that I'll post in this forum. We're planning to import an OES and we're carefully studying which is a very good for dog show. The first questions I got is Splashes or Flashes bad for show type OES? Some breeders that I inquired from Europe and USA asked me what type or kind of Splashes/Flashes I prefer and you're suggestions will be very helpful to me. If you got some pics, it will be better so I can visualize the standard for a good and bad Splalshes/Flashes. thank you, John |
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| Splashes are not acceptable in the original standard in the UK, but in North America it has become acceptable. I would look at the standard for your own country if you are planning to show, as your local judges will be going by your country's standard, regardless of where the dog came from.
Another thing to keep in mind is that deafness has been linked with dogs that have too much white. A small splash here and there is one thing, but if the dog is mostly white I would ask the breeder to evaluate hearing before you buy a dog. |
I have no idea what you're talking about, but want to welcome you to the forum  |
| Hopefully you will receive a response from some of our breeders and show people on the site (I am neither). Below is the reference to splashes/flashes from the OES of America site.
"There is positively no preferred shade of gray or pattern of markings combined with white. Theoretically, the dog can be all gray, or all white. So-called splashes/flashes of white in the solid body markings have always been considered typical of certain blood lines and should never be subject to penalty. A good dog is a good dog regardless of markings." This being the "party line" I'm not sure follows through in reality. My only experience with the issue is that my dog was deemed at birth "not suitable" for two reasons, one being a small amount of fawn or brown hair in his butt and the other being his lack of a solid black sadle and his irregular markings. So perhaps one of the folks on the site who shows can offer better insight. |
| I would advise you to contact Mr. Mario Magsaysay who is an all breed judge in the Philippines and has judged oes in many countries. He has a kennel name, Toyhaus, so maybe if you have a local dog magazine with contact info? |
| You may also run into some trouble getting a breeder to sell you a dog because od where youlive. I would be ready to provide vet references and references from people in your show community to prove that you are a great person.
I know of several breeders who have gotten some very odd requests for dogs over the past year from the Phillipines. |
| Many thanks for your warm response in my questions. This forum is really helpful.
First, I'm thinking to contact Mr. Mario Magsaysay and ask him more about the flashes/splashes on OES. Hi Willowsprite, how did you know Mr. Magsaysay? Hi Maxmm, I'm surprised that you know some breeders here in our country. May I know who are they? Thank you for iniating to help me with those references. I'll be very thankful if you could post some pics of splashes on OES. So in general splashes is not good in OES and is this hereditary? How about too much white? I've seen some OES that is almost white. Is this mean that if an OES has too mich white he has a problem on hearing? thanks, John |
| Welcome to the forum, John! |
| Thank You!
Everybody's comment and guidance will be very helpful to me in establishing my OES foundation. John |
| John,
The AKC standard reads: Color Any shade of gray, grizzle, blue or blue merle with or without white markings or in reverse. Any shade of brown or fawn to be considered distinctly objectionable and not to be encouraged. There is no mention of splashes. I've not heard of markings referred to as splashes so I am not sure what you are asking about. Here is a picture I took at a dog show in Canada last year: 
These are fairly typical markings, but grey markings on the ears/head/face etc. are not faulted at all. The breed standard in your country should specify colouring. |
| Flashes are dark color in the white area, splashes are white in the dark area.
Here's a great website that explains the markings according to the US standard: http://tolkienoes.com/Seminar_Coat_color.htm John, I was referring to US breeders who had encountered not so nice people coming out of the Phillipines. That's why I would say you need to be ready to show these people that you are a good person. There have been some bad people who have come before you which may make it harder for you to do what you want to do. Hopefully knowing this ahead of time will make it easier for you to make some good contacts. Welcome to the forum and good luck in your search!! If we can be of any more help to you please let us know! |
| Here is a link that you may find very useful
http://www.oldenglishsheepdogclubofamer ... l/Coat.htm |
| You will have to check which standard is appropriate for the Phillipines, here in Australia, New Zealand, Europe and the UK the splashes (white marks in the back coat) are not allowed.
Part of the standard used for these countries - "With or without white Markings". We don't have "or in reverse" in the standard in these countries. Best to check which standard is used in the Phillipines.
Welcome to the forum too. |
| Welcome to the forum and good luck with all your researching! |
| Thanks Mop Lover, Lisaoes, Ron for the welcome!
Philippines is under FCI ruling which Europe/UK is also using. So I think splashes (white markings) is not acceptable under FCI but I still have to do some more inquiry and research. Do you have actual pics of splashes and flashes? How about flashes (dark color in the white area)? Are they ok to have? Thanks for those link you gave to me as I'm already studying them. Pls. expect that I'll be posting a lot of questions to you guys and i hope you'll be patient enought to answer my questions. thanks, john |
| John this is one of my girls, Flashing on the off show side, that is the patching running up the neck into the head coat. It has not held her back at all. If she had white markings in the back coat (Splashes) well that is considered a mismark or fault in all the countries I have mentioned in my previous post. If you are under FCI rulings then the UK Standard will apply.
A big winning dog, born and bred in the USA who is now in Europe and doing extremely well has this flashing on his show side up his neck too and it did not hold him back either, a multiple BIS winner & BISS winner aslo. Ch.Bugaboo Big Puff Daddy. Flashing and or Patches on the head coat, ears, eyes and up the neck is quite acceptable in the breed, normal. Years & years ago it was fashionable for the breed to have all white heads and fronts, but thank goodness breeders are not breeding for that look now and taking the whole dog into consideration. Markings should not be a consideration, type, soundnesss and temperament is what is important and considered more important then what the markings are except in countries where the splashing is not allowed according to the standard for OES in that country. My girl last november, took out the Runner Up in Show Breed specialty, she is a champion with many wins under her and markings have not played any part in holding her back in the show ring.  Excuse the beard, that is pinned up to stop slobber on the beard before we go into the showring. Also the light and dark grey, she is younger here and in the middle of a coat transition.
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We have the same situation as Lisa. Both of my show dogs have flash. Toby on his off show side:
And Suzi on her show side: 
She actually went Best of Puppy Sweepstakes and Best of Winners at the National Specialty. And this is the Bugaboo dog that is competing in the US, he is currently the #1 OES in the country and BOB at the National Specialty: 
The girl that went Best of Breed at the 2005 National Specialty was heavily splashed. Click on the link, she's #22. There is a link for her pic there. http://www.westminsterkennelclub.org/20 ... ngshe.html |
Well, this is my decidedly "NOT A SHOW DOG" Tasker, I'm not sure if this is flash, splash or crash but what I was "told" was that his markings were objectionable becuse they were like cow spots ant not a solid saddle along his back side. His "other" side is more white so I suppose he is also to be faulted for too much white.
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| Crash, nice!!
Hey Ginny, just so you sound cool at the dog park....pretty much any white from the shoulders back is splash and any grey from the shoulders up is flash. (Generally speaking.) |
So basically what your saying is the Tasker Man is SPLASHY 
I can think of worse things!!! |
| Yup, that's his new thing. Tasker is SPLASHY!!!
It does sound pretty cool, doesn't it? |
| hehehehehehe, wait til I tell HIM!!!!!!!!!!!! |
| Or pudgy
ducking |
| sticking out my tongue blowing you a rasberry!!!!!!!!!! |
I think Tasker is handsome anyway 
I could care less about markings when choosing a dog for show, Tucker has some pretty strange "flashing" He has black ears, but the black goes up one ear and swirls in a cowlick over his head as well as down his neck on his non show side almost to his shoulder. His front legs both have black which is uneven, and he has a giant black splotch under his chin. I prefer dogs with more markings, but it isn't a part of my choice.... |
| Hello Guys,
I'm sorry I wasn't able to reply back again. I got little bit busy showing my new chow chow. By the way I am excited to say and hopefully my first OES will be here around November from Brinkley Kennel of UK. Do you have any feedback about Brinkley Kennel? thanks, John |
| Congratulations John, Brinkley is a top winning OES kennel in the UK.
We have imported brinkley stock here also.
Here is a photo of a "Brinkley" dog taking out the BISS here in Victoria last year.. That's me behind (HI) with my off show side flashed bitch taking out the RUISS
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| Hello Lisa,
Thanks! Is this dog name is Ch. Brinkley Song N Dance man? We're really excited and high hopes for this pup. I hope our future Brinkley dog will have the same success like your show OES there. And I will surely ask a lot of question in this forum when the young furball is already here and I hope you'll have a lot of patient answering my questions
John |
| Yes John a lovely boy he is too. Look forward to seeing pictures when your dog arrives and also hearing how all goes.
There is a few of us here on the forum that show oes, so any questions ask away when you need too, someone will be able to help there.
Best wishes with your new boy |
| Hi,
Pls explain "show side", do the judges only look at one side. As you can tell I know NOTHING about showing  |
shelby,corky,&fergus' wrote: Pls explain "show side", do the judges only look at one side.
Kind of. Judge usually stands in center of the ring so most of the time when stacked (standing in position) and gaiting, the judge only sees the left side. They do examine, etc., the whole dog, but usually the "whole picture" of the dog is seen from the left side primarily. |
| Hello guys,
I have another inquiry. I read in the standard that the OES can have a blue or black eyes. Do you have an actual picture of a blue and black eyes of the OES? What type of collar/chocker are you using in showing your OES? How do you maintain the "whiteness" of the beard and legs of your OES? regards, John |
| My Violet has one blue eye and one dark brown eye. If you click on my camera icon, one of the pics shows her blue eye. If you look through the picture portion on the forum, you will see many pics of sheepies with blue eyes, brown eyes and one blue and one brown. Good luck and enjoy! |
| We have only 2 brown eyes, so I can't help you with that one.
Most here in our area use a choke that is called a jewelers chain - very smooth, almost like a smooth chain necklace. And a thin show lead of nylon or leather paired with that. Whiteness - Big question . A constant battle at our house, as we live on a farm too. There are many whitening creams, shampoos and sprays - not sure what would be available in your part of the world. Probably stuff the UK gets?
I missed the splash/flash post - here is a splash example - our dog's uncle:  |
Well, here's Mulligan (with Red-Eye from the camera)
Here are Sophie and Sadie:  |
| Hi John the standard for the FCI is "Dark or wall eyes are to be preferred. "
Dark is a deep dark brown, Wall eyes is One Blue, One Brown, two blue eyes is acceptable but the others are preferred. (Light coloured eyes are objectionable in the brown coloured eyes) One of mine with the deep dark Brown eyes. 
Showing I use a Jewellers/snake chain onto a thin nylon lead, these type of chains don't damage or cut the neck coat then. For walking I use a soft nylon collar for every day use. Eg. of some show chains, the one in the front is what I use when they are still young/learning and pulling as it does not choke them then, the others we progress too when the learning/pulling stage is over. 
Corn starch or Potato flour packed into the beards when goopy or grubby then brushed out helps to clean/dry and freshen the area as well, great for a dry clean job on the feet and legs also.
Keeping them white, there is quite a few good dog whitening shampoos & creams on the market to help keep the whites whiter. And wiping the beard with a hand towel after eating or drinking helps as well. |
| Hello Lisaoes,
Thanks for the information. On the photo of chockers you posted what's the difference between chocker #1 and #2? What kind of chocker is #3? Do you have some pics of soft nylon collar you used for everday walking? The current chocker I'm using for my chow is damaging their neck coat. thanks, John |
| Choker 1 & 2 are the same, just one is slightly longer to fit over the big head when they are finished growing. One in Silver colour one in Gold colour.
Don't know the name of chocker chain 3, it's links are slightly larger, does not cut the coat either and takes the tension when they pull but does not tighten around the neck as a normal choke chain can. Sits up under the ears for showing and helps to keep there heads up and showier when they are learning and gaiting around the ring. It came from the states
These are the walking collars, back one is soft nylon collar with a snap clip. Then just attach the lead to it. The one in front has the same type of nylon collar no clip to do it up but combined into the long lead, you just slip that one over the head and off you go. Much easier then trying to clip the other one together around the neck on an excited sheepie girl who knows she is heading off for walkies.
For the chows, you need to go down a size to medium dog size. They wont be as wide then and in proportions then width wise on the collar for the chows. (Love the chow breed, love the blue tongues they have. )
Hope this helps |
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