Cesar Milan

I am just wondering if there are many here who follow Cesar Milan's training suggestions. I know there are many who are critical of his methods and techniques and I've always wondered myself if he wasn't just a bit too "Hollywood"

We've had a free preview of National Geopgraphic Channel this month and I have been watching his program almost daily.

After sifting through alot of showmanship and "for TV" stuff I have been supriased to discover some very effective training suggestions.

I've had a few "behavior issues" with Ty, my Maltese that aren't serious but are annoying. He can be a "barker" as well as being occasionally a little too aggressive with Tasker. I was amazed when within a matter of days of trying some of Cesars suggestions his behavior has improved 100 %.

In the past I have always been totally against the technique know as the "alpha roll", where to correct a dog you roll them over on their back and hold them down. I have now watched Cesar use it a number of times on small dogs and while I'm not sure I am ready to incorporate it into my training I am re examining my thoughts. I watched him roll a small dog that was geing aggressive and rude, hold him in what appeared to be a gentle fashion unitl the dog relaxed completely and actually lay with his legs up without being held. When the dog got up he was calm and submissive.

I have not made my "final" decision on his training but did wonder what other people thought of him and the program/

Respond to this topic here on forum.oes.org

Gin, I can tell you that Panda's puppy trainer had us do the same thing with her...and that was way before I ever heard of Ceasar Milan....it really does work. It should be a lot easier with a small dog rather than a 20 lb nippy puppy.....

She had me sit on the floor legs stretched out. Panda on her back between my legs....one hand on her belly and one by the top of her head...talk calmly to her...and kinda of lean over her, but dont get your head too close...youre just to show dominance, not aggression.

I still do this to Panda every now and then, when she gets too riled up. she calms down quickly. the key is to let them up, when YOU are ready to let them up....not before. its okay to keep them in this prone position for a few minutes.

I think Cesar's basic points are very sound - exercise, discipline, then affection. My husband got into watching his Natl Geographic show, and as a result now takes Bailey for a walk every morning before work to burn off some energy. It seems to have a very positive impact, and is a great bonding activity for Tim and Bailey.

The Alpha Roll has been removed from recomended training techniques. It does nothing to teach the dog except to fear and "act" submissively to whoever is doing it to them. The dog is not cured of anything, but may very well be on guard for the next time someone attempts to do it.

It is a temporary move that looks to have good results, but to the dog it means something entirely different. There is a condition called "learned helplessness" that a dog will take on when he/she is unable to do anything to get away. It appears to be cooperative, but actually is only "acting" that way out to resolve the situation at that time.

Asking your dog to roll over for a belly rub, and keeping him/her in that postiion is something entirely different., There is not fear or intimidation invovled. It is actually enjoyable for many.

I used to watch Cesar Milan, but can't now because Izzie freaks when she sees dogs/animals on the tv...anyone have any tips to cure her of that?

What I did like about his show were some of the basics that many people didn't seem to know or realize. As Sue was kind of saying...many of the dogs that Cesar works with are half "cured" just by telling their owners that they need more exercise.

I am aware that many times when a dog is getting into stuff or chewing on a lot of bad things or exhibiting over excited behavior they are not getting enough exercise and have made their own choices on how to burn energy, but many of the people on the show didn't seem to realize this. They are amazed that when they take their dog on a half hour walk everyday their behavior is so much improved.

Bosley's mom wrote:

What you have written has always been my opinion to the alpha roll, in fact I think I have expressed that several times here on the forum.

Last night I was clipping Ty's toenails and he started to growl at me, something he frequently does when I am cutting his toes or even touching his feet. He was already on my lap being held so I calmly flipped him over on his back and gently held him on the couch cushion. I was amazed at his response, he immediately stopped fighting me, went into a totally relaxed attitude. I took my hand away and he remained prone with his legs us and hgead back. I stayed sitting next to him and called him over to my lap, he came and we finished the nail clipping without another growl.

I am not saying I am ready to add that as part of my training tools on a regular basis but it was my first experience with the "alpha roll". There was no fear involved and when we accomplished the nail clipping he received treats and praise (a far better training tool in my opinion). But it did give me a different view of the alpha roll and make me realize that it may be a tool to use in the appropriate situation.

YAYYY, I'm glad you got to watch!!! I've been watching the reruns at night too because there hasn't been anything else on.

The alpha roll works wonders on Yuki!!! My husband and I both use this, and it immediately corrects Yuki from whatever she is doing. Assuming you are alpha and can get her in that position (and we are)!! It's hard to calm her when she gets going, but this works immediately!!

I use the same concept with my maltese, but do what I heard on Good Dog U (animal planet show). I raise her above my head, and tell her no! She hates this, and her tail goes between her legs, and she always listens after that! She loves to roll over and play dead, so laying on her back doesn't work as much, but still works.

If I could put in my two cents about the alpha roll...it is meant to be used only in extreme circumstances. The word here is "extreme".

You can remind your dog you are the alpha and in control bu simply doing what is called the "long down" a few minutes every day, gradually getting the time to 30 minute down. It's different than the alpha roll. If your dog knows the down command, you just put him in the down, tell him stay and do not release for a few minutes. If he tries to get up, a light hold on him and a repeat of the command down, then good boy, should keep him in place. In formal training a key exercise we do at home is a 30 minute down a few times a week. You can do it watching tv...the dogs usually fall asleep before 30 minutes anyway!

Very different than the alpha roll, which again is meant to be reserved for extreme situations.

There are some great trainers and training books out there. Cesar Millan is fun to watch and interesting, but he has absolutely no education or formal training. How he runs a "dog psychology" center and has now become this "dog behavior expert", without ever being educated is beyond me. He certainly knows how to make money though, that I'll give him credit for!

I didn't really want to start a discussion about the "alpha roll", that has been discussed here at great length in other threads and there are some very strong feelings about it. My fault for bringing it up.

My post was to ask if anyone has used Cesar Milans techniques, bought any of his books or tapes, gone to any of his training centers.

I had seen programs on aoccasion but not really paid alot of attention.

The foundation of his training (as he states it) is: exercise, discipline and affection. I found it very interesting that he talks alot about how we "humanize" our dogs and that no matter what we might think a dog is a dog is a dog (shhhhh don't tell TY) and that many of our mistakes are made because we expect dogs to react in human ways.

Quote:

I found it very interesting that he talks alot about how we "humanize" our dogs and that no matter what we might think a dog is a dog is a dog (shhhhh don't tell TY) and that many of our mistakes are made because we expect dogs to react in human ways.

I wonder if you and I were watching the same episode. :lol:

A lightbulb came on when I saw it this past weekend, and I was amazed how right he was! What he was trying to help in a lady was actually things I was doing wrong as well!

Was it the episode with the Chiuahau (SP?????), she was letting the dog be aggressive toward her son and feeling guilty for correcting the dog?

I had a "light bulb" moment when he asked her why she was more concerned about hurting the dog's feelings than her son!!!!!!

That's the one! I'm definitely "not her," but listening to him tell her that she didn't always need to reward the dog with "touching" ...made sense. It's hard to accept that my dog will do something for me just to see that I am happy!

That episode has been on before and it horrified me to watch how she let her dang dog go after her son!! I wanted to reach thru the TV and slap that lady!! Glad they got that straightened around.

Another episode that horrified me was the mini pin and the clueless lady.......why someone who is so afraid of dogs (supposedly only "large" dogs) ended up with 2 dogs, one over the top hyper. How sad that Cesar had the dog under control, showed the lady and her husband...and daughter...and former owner how to control the dog and nobody was willing to do it. The result, the dog was put down......Cesar was pissed!

To answer this forum question, yes, watching Cesar has helped me with Jack. We still aren't 100%, but he could be if only I but forth more effort to socialize him. Amazingly I was already doing many Cesar techniques, he only sharpened my skills........I'm not saying I'm a dog behaviorist, just I'm better with my own dogs.

I hope my DH is learning and not sleeping thru the entire shows as he does have trouble with excessively talking to the dogs "why don't they understand me??" :lol:

and getting frustrated.

I remind myself, "I'm large and in-charge" ..... stand up straight, relax and be a self-controlled leader.

SheepieBoss wrote:

HAHAHAHA, I too was horrified that she "appeared" to be more worried about the dogs feelings than her son, I felt so bad for him. She was definately (whether she realized it or not) sabbatoging any chance that her son could have a relationship with the dog.

I know what you mean about large and "in charge", I find myself squaring my shoulders and puffing out my chest when I give a comman these days!! HAHAHAHAAH

Bailey's Mom wrote:

I agree.

What he does on most dogs isn't the traditional "alpha roll" where they go on their backs. Most of the time, he just has the dog lie down on its side and submit but, the first time, he pushes them into position. Using this method has helped Bear calm down a lot when he used to get overly excited, especially when we had the fighting.We never had to push or shove him. He'd get lots of praise for calming down. We'll sit him down and just help him into each position that he'd resist. Now he knows just when I step towards him and tell him "relax" he slumps right down and rolls over on his side on his own and he still gets lots of scratches and rubs for calming down. That and some of the other things he does really do make sense and have worked well for us.

Jill, he was ther first person I ever saw use an "alpha role" in a kind and gentle way, I was suprised to see the dogs almost instant relaxation and almost calming effect it had.

I am a dog trainer and behavior consultant and I have learned a LOT from watching Cesar's show. I have my foundation training practices, but I have lately been called to several "aggressive" situations, and I have practiced techniques successfully that I have picked up from Cesar. I am thankful for his educating people thru this popular show about "dogs are dogs, not people" and that they need, exercise, discipline and affection in that order. That being said, I caution my clients not to use some of the techniques that I am using, as timing and confidence are critical factors to pull them off successfully with no one getting hurt.

Amanda P wrote:

I used to watch Cesar Milan, but can't now because Izzie freaks when she sees dogs/animals on the tv...anyone have any tips to cure her of that?

Well, it may sound weird but don't let her go nuts! Boni used to run up to the TV and chase animals. We used to think it was amazing, funny and cute until he became over 60 Lbs and nearly crashed the TV. And that's when I started to desensitize Boni to 'TV animals'. I record "Breed All About It" and he went crazy with the afghan hounds so I used that episode to rewinded and let it play over and over again.

Every time he run up to the TV I said "Hey" or "Eh-eh" (instead of "Shh" or "No") loud and pause the show. This would make him look at me for a second. As soon as he looked back at the TV he realized the dogs weren't running anymore so I could get him back next to me to sit down and relax. A minute or so later, when he was calm I would let it play again.

So, I would rewind the running dogs, let it play, Boni goes nuts, immediately say "Hey", pause, tell him to get back to me "Sit", "good boy". etc. The first time, I did this for about 10 minutes.

Today, we can watch a show and when he sees a dog running on TV or any other animals, he will run up to me and sit either on the sofa or at my feet. He may cry a little bit but I can tell him "Stop it" and he is fine watching it quietly.

LOL

The idea of your dog watching TV is so funny!! I always thought they couldn't really see TV because I've never had a dog who responded to it except for occaisional dog barks on TV and even then they just turn their heads perplexedly.

Once on some television show, there were dogs barking and a person on the show said "Get out of here!" Archie got up and left the room, looking a little confused about what he had done wrong.

Oh that is so cute -- I didn't know if Mona Lisa was the only television watching dog or not... She definitely loves "Animal Planet" when it's on and gets so excited over the other dogs. We were watching the Dogs National Championship the other day and she got so excited. I never had a dog before that did that!!!!

I didnt have time to read all the replies, but i can tell that this is a bag of mixed feelings.

I recently posted something on here, which detailed some alpha excercises id been doing with alfie; I dont do this alpha roll thing, but as for generally speaking, i completely agree that the dog needs to know his place.

In short i give alfie nothing but love, and in fact he is pretty spoiled because if you seen some of the things he does you'd think he was the house owner.. If he doesnt do as he is told, i tend to stand over him and have him sit. Once he is calm, i clap (pet) him, and say good boy and its back to normal.

Ive spent a lot of time observing alfie in social situations, and when he meets other dogs, particularly smaller ones, he will stand over them, and put his paw on their shoulders, so now at night, i do this to alfie before bed... Nothing which causes him pain or stress, but re-inforces that i am the alpha..

As i said before, this coupled with lots of excercise (including alfie having to walk to "earn" his meals) has improved alfies balance and behaviour 100 fold.. To the point where when i go to the door to take alfie out, he takes steps back and sits down so i can open the door, and lets me walk out before him... im now teaching him to wait to be invited out.

I dont think anyone can say that ceaser doesnt have a way with dogs, and while i dont subscribe to his every technique, i think its worth watching to see if there's anything useful i can pick up

redmam7 wrote:

LOL

You know I always read they couldn't see the TV. COuld it be the new technology with LCD's and Plasma screens?

My two are the first dogs I have ever had that really watched tv, (and we got the LCD just before they came ot us). other dogs might have reacted to the light change or a sound, but these two watch to the point of looking off screen for things that run out of frame.

Odd.........

I saw an episode of The Dog Whisperer just a day or two ago about a bulldog of some kind where the owner was doing what I think of as an alpha roll - really forcing the dog onto the ground, onto it's back and getting in it's face. He told the owner not to do that to the dog any longer as it simply scared the dog and then made it aggressive. He then went on to explain the differences between that and what he was doing, which of course I don't really remember now that it counts for something.

And as far as watching tv - Dodger does every now and then. During the Discovery Channel's Planet Earth, the apes war cries caught his attention and then he followed them around the tv with his nose. (Then tried to look behind the tv to find where they were hiding :lol:

)

All three of my dogs watch tv. They bark at anything running, especially dogs on tv. In general they watch like they are looking out a window. But I really thought it was hilarious when they were barking and wiggling at penguins on tv. The movie was the 'march of the penguins' that some comedians have dubbed, can't remember the title, very funny. But those talking penguins really had my dogs going.

I've been having aggression issues with one of my Pups. While looking up books to help, I was researching an author and it led me to this site. I remembered this thread and thought I would post a link, and let everyone decide what they think, for themselves...

http://www.urbandawgs.com/divided_profession.html

Darth Snuggle wrote:

I skimmed the beginning - looks very interesting and informative.

The most important thing we have gotten from Cesar is that dogs pick up on our energy. I have to control my reactions when Fiona gets out of control to make sure that I don't do the same. Stay collected...also she goes crazy when the show comes on, so she has lost her TV privlages (sp) during that show, so we can enjoy it.

We have never had a problem with animals on TV, Chauncey had an issue with Sunday & Mon. night football as a puppy. We have a large screen TV and large windows which equals lots of reflections. He use to get crazed with all these guys running everywhere in the room and all of the noise of the game. :roll:

I'm not sure if he just out grew it or if it's because Bobby's work schedule changed & he's home ( Bob hates football ) and takes Chauncey to the bedroom to watch TV but he now comes out to check on me and cuddle for while then goes back into the bedroom.

I wanted to say I have used his methods on my Lab. He is much better behaved because of this. My hats off to Cesar. I am amazed at the results he gets with what seems to be hopeless cases. I also have seen some of his negative press. One lady said he was uneducated and really a great case of good marketing. I disagree. I know many educated people who are not a bit intuitive. Education may give you knowledge but it does not give you the ability to see and feel the situation. He justs uses the language a dog uses and he get's responses because of it. He is very intuitive and can sense what is going to do next through his experinces with dogs. I don't reccomend people use some of his methods with agressive dogs without understanding the consequences. I tried rolling a friends agressive Jack Russel. He kept nipping and showing his teeth with me when I was trying to get him off my couch. Not to mention he was doing the same thing with my big goober lab. So I decided to try that move I'd seen Cesar do many times as I was done with his attitude. He freaked when I pinned him. But by then I had to commit or lose my hand. He looked like a demon dog. He caught my thumb in his jaw and mashed it. If it would have been 1/8th of and inch closer to his back teeth it would have been bad. He bit hard and it hurt. Let me tell you I won't do that again. I worry for my friend as she has toddlers. He did not nip at me again so did I win?? I am not sure. I reccomend his methods but red zone cases and or biters. Get the help of a professional...oh yeah...duh...the disclaimer says this before, during and after every show. Cesar Milan I am not...

what did he say to help a barking puppy???

A lot of what he does comes from his own confidence and understanding of the dogs, the dogs pick up on this, you can see it regularly that they respect him within the first 20 minutes more than their owners who have lived with them for years/months

There are a heck of a lot of nervous owners, even dog proffesionals.

I for one am impressed and have learnt a lot from him and the program.
I am not sure Archie would pay much attention to the sharp sshh! he'd probably think it's agame :lol:

The other night I was line grooming Archie while I watched the show, he seemed relaxed by the show, and he knows that when it's on and I am grooming him at least he can listen to other dogs and watch them too, rather than just staring at my feet (and chewing them)

redmam7 wrote:

LOL

Oh let me tell you, they see the tv. They may not comprehend it but they see it. Obe will watch tv and you can see him watching. He goes to the tv room and checks if it's on. If on he will sit or lay and watch. After a while he goes to sleep but I can guarantee he is watching whatever is on. Friends come over and laugh because they have never seen anything lie it. Does not matter what is car chase, animals, football, etc. Hell he watches tv more than I do.

Erm I have a big addict!

LOL too funny

The thing I've gained from Cesar is the ability to recognize behaviors for what they are. My pack has always been made up exclusively of rescue dogs who bring their own baggage to the mix, and I've learned to pay closer attention to what they do and discourage behaviors I formerly though were cute but were really so NOT. I'm not referring to dangerous or aggressive issues, which I jump on immediately - Just the everyday or subtle things that don't seem significant but can definitely affect the balance of the pack.

For example, like all of them charging the back door to be the first one out to play, which resulted in my toes being crushed by many furry paws and all three of them getting overexcited and frantic until the door opened. Now I claim the space in front of the door and make them sit and WAIT until the door is opened and I give the release command. My toes have healed nicely and they are far more polite. It does make you think and see the things that need to be corrected.

Hi again, everyone!

First and foremost I would like to congratulate us all on keeping this thread mature and professional. When such passionate, differing points of view are offered conversations tend to slip and become a bit offensive and defensive, but so far this one has remained very respectful. Hats off to us all!!

As for Cesar Millan, I have a few of my own thoughts. I do watch his show quite often and I feel that many times, people who are critical of his techniques have not watched the show or read his books. His techniques come from a foundational understanding of how dogs interact with each other. He uses this communication method as a way of understanding and relating to the dog. He is confidant and expects their respect which works well for him. True, there is a disclaimer at the bottom, but in my opinion that is because if you lack his confidance and an understanding dog pack behaviour, then you may get hurt, especially when dealing with more dominant and aggressive dogs.

Personally, what I have learned most from Cesar has to do with making things mine and claiming my space. For example, Tucker used to bark at the vacuum until I stood in front of it, blocking him from getting at it, and made the "shht!" sound when he barked. Within about 2 minutes he was completely uninterested in the vacuum and it has never been an issue since. I did the same thing in the summer with the lawnmower.

There are so many dog training methods out there that I truly believe that you have to do your research and then sift out the bits that make sense to you and your dog and are useful in your household. Cesar Milan, The Loved Dog, Clicker Training and so on can all be integrated into your own techniques.

I was happy to find this discussion about Cesar's methods and what others think of them. I have watched his show (including the reruns) since leaving a job at a doggie day care last Jan. I currently have seven dogs all picked up off the road (we live in the country). I have also worked for a vet. and had dogs most of my life. I think Cesar has some very valid and effective training methods (for dogs and humans). I found the traditional alpha roll ineffective. The type that Cesar users seems more effective. For me the most important thing I picked up is that I am part of the pack -- not just the human with a bunch of dogs who have their own Alpha -- my Husky mix Jack was not thrilled about his demotion but is handeling it with his usual charm.

Moe loves the tv except for the new Geico commercial with the pigs..when they start to squeal their we.we.wee he goes nuts and tries to attack the tv..it is very funny..only thing that makes him do this..think it is the pitch ..

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