Agressive or just protective?

I just recently started taking My Sheepie Mardi to beginner obedience classes. He does really good I think for only having been to three.The problem is some dogs he lunges and growls at. We stood about four feet apart in a line and the person in the rear of the line would weave in and out of the line and go to the front etc. till all did it. The first night he growled and lunged . The second night was fine. Then they squaredanced and he lunged athe the dog promenading behind us.He is such a sweetheart. I think he was just being protective. My daughter had her heart set on someday breeding him when she gradguates from college. The trainers wife said that would be the wrong thing to do because of the agression. Also when we go walking my dogs are fine except when they see another dog they tear into each other almost like a jelousy thing otherwise they get along fine. My sheepdog isn't neaughtered and is a male. Does this have anything to do with it? I just don't think he is agressive i've never had a more lovey dog.Any ideas would be greatly appriciated. They suggested using a shock collar but I don't think I want to.
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i would recommend neutering him. my job is to watch dogs playing together and i have noticed an amazing difference in all the dogs who were neutered because of aggression/dominance issues.

but i dont think neutering will completely solve the problem... some dogs are only aggressive to other dogs or people when they are on leash. has mardi ever been to a dog park or had any playtime with dogs offleash?
it would probably help to get a trainer who specifies in dog on dog aggression.

i would definitely neuter him, there is no reason to breed a dog with aggression problems... even if you work through it with a trainer. i really suggest doing something about it... it may get worse and it may prevent you from doing things like sitting nicely at the vet waiting room, going for walks, going to dogparks, or greeting other dogs when you see them.
Yes, neutering plays a role! He should be neutered not only for this reason - but because based on his temperment he should not be bred and leaving him intact could pose health problems down the line (testicular cancer). This territorial aggression could escalate and become out of control.

Breeding takes a lot of time and money and is not easy (it's a science) - you need to determine the health and temperment of previous generations. Both Sire & Dam need to have genetic testing, certification of hips and eyes, etc. It's not something that should be entered into lightly.

JMHO.
Kristen
I agree with BritPresSyd. I think temperament is such an important part to good breeding that if your dog continues to behave aggressively in such neutral circumstances then you shouldn't even think about it. It will pass down to the puppies.

The breeder I got my pup from prides herself on the temperament of her dogs and I have to say that Frank has been such a mellow, easy trainable, friendly pup with absolutely no signs of aggression. Apparently all of her dogs are the same way.
AKC Standard for an OES states...

Temperament: An adaptable, intelligent dog of even disposition, with no sign of aggression, shyness or nervousness.

By breeding a dog outside of this standard - we are contributing to the problems of the breed. IMHO.


Kristen
herbgirl wrote:
. They suggested using a shock collar but I don't think I want to.


PLEASE!!! PLEASE!!!! Don't resort to using a shock collar - you could make things worse!!! He should be trained using POSITIVE REINFORCEMENT! If used ever, a shock collar should ONLY be used as a last resort - in very extreme circumstances!

How much socialization has your dog had previous to training class? How old is he?

I would work on socialization - and getting your dog to "ignore" his surroundings - by making him want to concentrate on you (you're the one who is giving him the praise, treats, hugs, etc.). When you are in this situation - get him to SIT, STAY (and be Quiet if barking/growling is involved) - once he's done that REWARD him with a TREAT, PRAISE (scream and hollar - make a big deal of how good he's being!)

You should also teach him "Leave It" - if he goes for something he shouldn't have (i.e. a DOG) - say "Leave It" and when he complies - REWARD! The Leave It Command can be taught by putting a treat on the ground in their reach - each time the dog goes towards it - say "Leave It" and remove him from the reach. Once he responds by actually leaving it - reward him by giving him a treat, praise, etc.

Training will take time - but it's well worth the effort! What type of training is the class providing? I cringe to think that a trainer would recommend a shock collar that freely!

Please feel free to email me privately if you have any questions (or to tell me to shutup! :wink: )

Kristen
Thanks to everyone who responded . I value everyones opinion.
Someone asked if he gets to be aroung other dogs off his leash. The answer is yes . We have a female Aussie and they play outside everyday. They chase each other around the pool. The trainer only mentioned a shock collar as a last resort. He actually did very well at obedience class except for lunging at a few dogs. I think he just didn't know what to expect when they came up behind him. I just think he needs socialized more. We probably will have him neughtered. I do know how much is involved with breeding and he did come from a reputable breeder. He is a very intelligent dog and learns fast. Also part of the problem might be that we have two herding dogs in the house and they roughhouse frequently when they play. Both are a little on the alpha side.I refuse to classify him as agressive until he has some more training . You can take bones right out of his mouth without any problem and he doesn't show any territorial agression in the house . He loves people and is gentle.
I have another suggestion (if you don't mind!) - alot of times other dogs will feel "threatened" or "intimidated" when they can't see the eyes of the other dog. Do you keep your dog's hair short and out of his eyes at class? If not, try putting it up during class and see if that helps his interaction with other dogs. He may be reacting to their intimidation. Just a thought!

I have similar problems with my Presley - she gets along great with her sisters - but every now and again she'll start with another dog. Alot of the dogs from her breeder are the same way - I don't know if it's a socialization issue (socialization begins before they are removed from the litter/mom) or if it's a temperment issue in their lines. Presley isn't from a good breeder.

I would also recommend discussing this issue with your breeder - they may offer some suggestions.

Good Luck!
Kristen
That's weird! Before I even got to the start of Kristen's post, I was going to start in on the hair thing.

With Blue, she always seemed to get a fright when another dog or person approached. She'd jump and then lunge. After a while, I realised that this was since her hair had grown down over her eyes, she couldn't see other animals etc approaching. I gave her really cute little bangs and now she can see what's coming at her and she doesn't get pent up.

She's in no-way aggressive but was just at a huge disadvantage by not being able to use her full line of vision.

Helen
We keep Mardi's hair in one of those little hair clippies.But after you suggested that maybe the reason he doesn't like the other dogs coming up behind him is because he can't see them and it startles himI checked his do out. You might be right even with the clip he still has some hair over his eyes off to the side. I'll have to make sure I get it up. He hates pony tail holders even if loose and not pulling. Rubs his head along the sofa till out.He did really good at class tonight.Thank God. I talked to him the whole time the dogs were weaving in and out up behind him tonight and he was fine. I do need to find another dog besides our other one for him to socialize with off the leash. We don;t have any off the leash dog parks in our area. I never even heard of one till I read about all of Mariannes escapades at the one she goes to. I think it's a great idea.
I forgot to put in my last post Mardi's age . He is about thirteen months old. I have to look at his papers to be sure. I have trouble remembering my own age. I just turned the big 40 in March .
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