What should I use?
I asked her if a choke coller was what should be used on Edgar for training but she didnt know with all his fur. So is there a special type of training coller that you are supposed to use for an Old English Sheepdog? I think I am going to need something because Edgar almost made me a one armed person after his training class. He was so BAD. Don't know what got into him last night. But he is definatly getting WAY stronger. We walk with him almost every night and are trying to work with him on puling. I swear when he sees another puppy (like at class) his brains go out the door and all he does is PULL!  |
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| You can get a choke chain that is a "Snake Chain" or "Jewellers Chain"
the links are very tight so no hair gets caught in the chain and it does not rip any coat out. We use them for the showring only, rest of the time mine don't even have a collar on, if we go for a walk it is a soft collar now as they do not pull. Is it possible to do training with a gentle leader/Halti. As that really helps with the pulling till they learn not to pull.  |
| there is nylon choke chains. I just got one for Laika for her class, I had a chain and of course that wasn't working well with a sheepie. |
| Choke chains aren't good for Old English as their hair will get pulled through it and can get caught.
Prong collars have the same effect and work very well. Edgar is only going to get stronger and a prong collar can be used to teach him not to pull - then you can go back to a regular collar and only bring out the prong collar for classes or for re-training not to pull. They look really scary but they're not that bad. I put one around my forearm and pulled (not jerked, just pulled as a pup would) and it was uncomfortable but not painful. Just enough to discourage pulling. I haven't used one yet, but that's what we'll be getting if and when Barkley pulls more on-leash. You may get some advise on how to use from others on the forum who have used them, but I think that with a prong collar they get an immediate correction when they pull... and it doesn't require that snap-jerk correction on your part. Look for one that has an adjustable buckle for a fixed diameter. Some will tighten choke-style and the hair will get caught. |
| I think it's best to start out with a gentle leader (Halti) at first. It's kind of like what they use on horses to control them by the head. It's the gentlest method around. If that doesn't work (it didn't for Foz), it's best to try the prong collar. It's helping us. |
We used a choke collar for Bunker while in training, It's helped a lot. Even now when she sees it she becomes a different dog.
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| Robin, we use a choke collar that the links are close together. We've never had a problem with Pandas hair getting caught..so far... |
| Choke collars are dangerous. Do a search on the internet to see what kind of damage both physically and mentally
And I don't know of any good, modern positive trainer who uses any kind of aversive collars. Especially on a puppy. The puppy needs to be shown how to behave to get what he wants, not to be punished until he figures it out on his own. If I were you I would teach Edgar how to walk nice in a positive way, so that he enjoys his walkies and doesn't get punished for being a friendly puppy. Positive reinforcement, with lots of treats for walking close to you, is the way to go. I would recommend a regular collar or a haltie/ gentle-leader if he is pulling too hard already. I have even trained a dog how to walk nice by my side without using a collar. Then once he knows how to do that the collar and leash is added to a dog that hasn't had the opportunity to pull. |
| If you're going to use a choke, you should be fine with a standard kind just for training. Hair getting stuck won't be a problem in the short time that you're in class. You should never leave a choke collar on when you aren't training so, ideally, the collar won't be on long. I've never had one get stuck.
If you're really concerned though, you could try a Martingale. |
| Carl has such bad ADD or hyperactivity or sheepdog excitedeness that we need to use a choke or a prong to remind him to pay attention. We do not yank or pull or actually choke with it. We do use the tightening factor along with voice and treats to keep his focus and allow him to work. He gets so excited and hyper that he can't stop himself from moving. He prances, he wiggles, he twitches. (Hence his nickname of twitch!) The training center (which uses all positive reinforcement!) had as many of it's teachers that it could gather come see him because it is so weird. He does the commands, sit, down, heel; he just can't can't do them in a solid, still manner. He will be in a sit and his little front feet just keep going. It's as if doing obedience only makes him more kinetic and excited! (No anxiety related, he's disappointed when we stop and there are no other anxiety related symptoms.)
So, we do use those two training collars for him depending on his level of energy that day. The key is the gentle tightening. It's like when someone has their hand on yours and wants to emphasize what they are saying and they squeeze, not someone punching you in the shoulder to emphasize a point. Just like some kids are auditory learners and some are visual, some of them are tactile learners too. |
| Thanks for all the advice. I REALLY REALLY appreciate it! |
lisaoes wrote: You can get a choke chain that is a "Snake Chain" or "Jewellers Chain"
the links are very tight so no hair gets caught in the chain and it does not rip any coat out. We use them for the showring only, rest of the time mine don't even have a collar on, if we go for a walk it is a soft collar now as they do not pull. Is it possible to do training with a gentle leader/Halti. As that really helps with the pulling till they learn not to pull. This is what Bingley has for show. |
| i just started using a nylon choke collar derby will start puppy class next week so we will see if it works |
| We use a pinch collar on Callie. I'm not sure what a prong collar is, but I think it may be the same as what we call a pinch collar. It has links that you can add or take away to make it the right length, and the ends of each link point in toward the dog's neck. I really didn't want to use it at first because it does look really awful.
But my mom was not strong enough to hold back her sheepy puppy, so she got one and it made such a huge difference that we got one for Callie too. She learned so much more quickly with it and it does not hurt her, just discourages her from pulling. Like someone else said, though, never leave it on an unattended dog. And when you only use it for walks and training, it does not have time to get tangled in their hair. Callie knows now when she sees me get it out of the drawer that we are going for a walk and she gets very excited! (So that also helps me to believe that it is not painful for her.) |
| Why the choke collar (now more euphemistically referred to as a check chain)? The main reason trainers use it is because it is the only collar AKC permits in the obedience ring. If not used properly it can be the most dangerous type of collar, damaging the larynx by yanking on it to restrain a dogs pull. If used correctly, any correction should be made with the collar up behind the ears, above the larynx, and should be a pop, not a hard yank. The sound is the correction, not the constriction of the neck. You are correcting his lack of attention to you, not his pulling, and should be made as soon as he is distracted to the object of his pulling. Once you have regained his attention, then give the heel command and proceed.
Another danger with the check chain results from leaving it on the dog when not in training (he jumps up on the fence to bark at a stranger or squirrel in the next yard, then as he comes down the chain catches on the fence and strangles the dog; or he catches it on a cabinet handle in the house. I've had it happen! Fortunately I was there to release Barney when it happened. But if you're going to train the dog for the ring, better get him used to it. You've got to bring the dog in the ring on a leash, and the only collar permitted is the check chain. |
George wrote: Why the choke collar (now more euphemistically referred to as a check chain)? The main reason trainers use it is because it is the only collar AKC permits in the obedience ring.
....... But if you're going to train the dog for the ring, better get him used to it. You've got to bring the dog in the ring on a leash, and the only collar permitted is the check chain. Actually, this has been changed since 1998, so the trainers should be aware of this: In response to letters from obedience exhibitors and on the advice of an obedience advisory committee, the AKC has made the following changes in the Obedience Regulations, effective February 1, 1998 Collars (Chapter 2, section 17): The rules regarding collars have been loosened somewhat to allow "fancy" collars (i.e. bright colors or patterns) as well as the increasingly popular nylon snap collars. Prong collars, electronic collars, and any other special training collars (such as haltis) are still prohibited. As before, collars must be properly fitted and have nothing hanging from them. All collars are subject to approval of the judge. So, the following is a guideline.. 1. Metal or nylon choke chains are OK. These should fit properly and not hang half way down the chest. 2. Leather buckle (flat or rolled) are OK. 3. Nylon or fabric buckle collars are OK. Some dissent on colors: solid and subdued colors are your best bet. 4. Quick snap, martingale, prong collars are not allowed. Bright colors dismissed by some judges. Prints, studded collars, decorated collars, not allowed. |
| First choice would be to use the regular buckle collar or flat nylon martingale collar. We use the martingales because they can't slip out of them - mostly just a safety factor.
If you aren't having luck with that, we have found that the jeweler chain works better than a regular chain of a choke collar. The nylon (round cord) choke collars also don't tangle, and are reasonably priced. The prong collars don't tangle much, and do work. Martingale collars are allowed in AKC obedience - I just finished my basset's Rally Novice with one. LeAnne is working Chewie on one, and he is doing well. Whatever you choose, get training for yourself to use the collar properly. They all work differently and you can do damage if they are not used right. I feel that this part is more important than what particular collar you use. Just remember that the collar is only a learning tool to learn to work as a team - eventually the goal is to have your dog so in tune to you that he doesn't need a restraint. You want a dog that will listen at any time, in any situation. This is nice to have, but also can be a lifesaver. |
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