question regarding neutering
I need advice.... Pup's one testicle has not dropped and is lodged in an 'odd' spot according to my vet. He is encouraging me to have the pup neutered around 6 months old. The vet is concerned if we wait too long, pup may show signs of aggression (because of placement of testicle), lack of proper male hormone, and an another issue I can't remember. My breeder is encouraging us to wait until the pup is at least a year old, so that he 'fills out nicely'. Puppy is also on the dominant side to begin with, we have gotten help for this. Any thoughts to help me make a decision as to when to go ahead with puppy's surgery. Thank you, |
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| I don't have any magic answers. Our Hudson was small (still is short, but really stocky) and we wanted to wait until he was a year to neuter. Our vet thought it was a good idea. Then he started "maturing" in that wonderful way where a male dog wraps his legs around anyone and anything and shows his "affection." We caved at eight months because of that. I don't think doing it earlier than the full year had any negative effects. The bonus was that he stopped mounting everyone (and everything) and settled a little. He didn't retire his "Evil Puppy" title immediately, but life was better. If there are medical concerns and the vet thinks it's better to do it now I'd probably go with the vet's advice. I mean no disrespect to your breeder, but on medical matters I think the vet's opinion should carry more weight. We had a sheepie with an undescended testicle at one time. I know there was some concern about it, but we opted to have him (and his brother who was a littermate) done at six months anyway, so we didn't worry at all about the issues around leaving it for later. They were both huge puppies and growing like weeds already. They both did well, and ended up full grown at 89 pounds, and a whopping 108. They filled out just fine despite the earlier neuter. It's certainly up to you, and you'll probably get lots of advice, but I think there's really no downside to doing it at six months, and it sounds like the vet sees it as the better option. I'd go with your vet's advice, or if for any reason you're not comfortable with this vet, you could get a second opinion. |
| I would follow my Vet's recommendation. I think neutering with one undescended testicle is a bit of a bigger deal than just a usual neutering. Might mean more recuperation time. You might want to look into the Comfy Cone. A soft version of that stupied e collar they alwasy send dogs home with after surgery. You will want to keep him quiet, not jumping and not licking the stitches. Walk outside on leash only for potty. The first night is the hardest as they are in a little pain. Follow the vet's suggestions. Good luck. Its harder on us than them I think! |
| Assuming you chose a very experienced, very reputable breeder, I'd put a lot of weight in what she says. The vet is looking at dogs in general and may/may not have a lot of experience with OES or even larger dogs, which tend to physically mature at 2 years or 3 years--later than smaller breeds. In any case, I'd put it off to as close to a year as I could, if I were you. One of our dogs had one testicle not fully descended and it did make the neutering a bit more complicated, but he handled the surgery well. The undescended testicle will pose a future risk of testicular cancer for your dog, so he does need to be neutered but I don't think there's an immediate need to do so. The vet's suggestion that the placement of the testicle will cause aggression and/or lack of proper male hormone seems odd: neutering will remove ALL male hormone. There is the school of thought that neutering will quiet agressive behavior in male dogs but there are also people who feel otherwise. And the breeder has a good point: postponing neutering will help give your boy the best shot at developing the muscle and bone he was born to develop. |
| I too vote for waiting. The reason is the growth. Males neutered early tend to grow too tall and lankey. Whether this has any bearing on hip problems, bone cancer, etc......I can't say and I'm sure no studies have been done. Since sheepdogs are slow to mature, I'd let the boy receive his hormones for as long as you can stand him and problems he may have. Aggression is a concern though. I'd be looking at training before surgery. The problem may be the brain, not the hormone. You may need some pointers on how to take charge........the boy is at that age where he questions everything you tell him (brain dead zone) By establishing who actually sets the rules and who follows them may help you gain control until his body gets settled.....after that first year birthday or so. Then neuter. |
SheepieBoss wrote: I too vote for waiting. The reason is the growth. Males neutered early tend to grow too tall and lankey. Whether this has any bearing on hip problems, bone cancer, etc......I can't say and I'm sure no studies have been done.. Actually, studies have been done.  There are several papers that are readily available online that review the numerous studies that have been done over the years that all say the same thing: hormones have protective value and intact dogs have lower risk of several deadly cancers including two which OES are prone to (osteosarcoma and hemangiosarcoma) and a number of immune mediated conditions (including hyothyroidism and environmental sensitivities). Neutering before growth place close also increases risk of orthopedic problems. Maybe I'll have time to dig the links up on the morning, though they've been cited here often enough someone's bound to have them handy. An undescended testicle complicates the matter since it does have to come out due to the heightened risk of testicular cancer. But how long can you wait? Didn't Jaci have to figure this out for her Bumbles? I can't recall what she ultimately decided was the best in his case. Kristine |
| My cat had crypt-orchid. He was a stray kitten from Detroit. He had a tail amputation (was attacked by a boxer that broke his tail and did irreparable nerve damage) and his neuter at the same time. Crypt-orchid happens enough that I think vets are pretty good at getting the testicle that is still in the body cavity out. Ampersand had no issue from the surgery. But I would say, I would consult with your vet and your breeder. |
| can the vet "feel the testes in the canal" if not it may be up higher and in the abdomen. if that is the case they may have to go after it laproscopically. That may be harder in a smaller pupper and it may be helpful if he was bigger. I would talk with your vet about the options. What happens if they get into surgery an it is not in the canal..... are they prepared for laproscopic surgery or are they planning on openning him up. I had a colt with this and the vets at Cornell University wanted to wait until he was at least 6 months hoping it would move down. it didn't but they were prepared and did an ultrasound and saw the testes in the canal. if it wasn't there they were going to scope him since it is an easier recovery. make sure your vet has all angles covered so that there are no surprizes. |
| I think this might be the article Kristine was referring to- http://www.neutering.org/files/LongTerm ... InDogs.pdf The brothers-cryptorchid. I have two unrelated dogs that are close to the same age... Bumble was born May 31, 2008, Kobuck was born October 1, 2008. Both had retained testicles... both were neutered at around the same age of 8 months... both are loving, intelligent dogs... but both are also individuals. One stretches to pee and empties his bladder, never marked, is pretty respectful of other dogs and is rather a doofus. The other is intensely focused on sniffing and licking both altered males and females and trying to hump... to the point of being disrespectful. He's also marks outdoors. But he's new to the home and after only 4 days, is listening extremely well to leave-it which Jim is now transferring over to a throat clearing instead. (What will happen when Jim catches a cold!  ) He just got tired of both of us saying leave-it so many times. (I know Mrs. J is laughing at this.   ) Darn, he's a great dog though and we are getting past this! The dogs are also snapping at him to let him know that the behavior is not appreciated which is also helping him too. I don't think the behavior has anything to do with when he was neutered. I think he just needs more limits and exercise to get rid of that fidgety behavior. With the moves that boy has and his compact size, I bet he would have made an awesome agility dog! Bumble and Emma tuckered the little dude out this morning and he's now sleeping in front of the door. http://oesusa.com/AllTuckeredOut.jpg With multiple dogs, it's going to be much easier to do compared to having just one other dog. I was told Bumble's retained testicle was felt by another vet, that my vet needed more practice.  We couldn't find it so my vet had me periodically palpate his abdomen on the side that hadn't dropped to see if it could be located before he was neutered. Never could find it. When he was neutered, it was found way up in the abdomen, closer to the kidney. The incision to try to locate it was in front of the penis... picture on the right- http://oesusa.com/index.723.jpg . Kobuck had two incisions that were located lower in the abdomen, closer to where the testicle was supposed to be but still too far away. He had three incisions... one to remove the testicle in the scrotum and two because they had to search for the lost one. http://photos.oes.org/displayimage.php? ... fullsize=1 It can sometimes be found by palpating the abdomen, off to the side of the penis. Here's a good picture showing what the bump can look like- http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/c ... chid_1.JPG But Kobuck's was said to be very small so there may not have been any bump.Just sharing my experience and observations. We base things on what we know at the moment of forming that opinion. As our learning progresses and we experience more things, our opinions can change. I don't know what the right answer is for your individual dog. Trainers have told me that once a behavior is in place, it's much more difficult to unring-the-bell. But how do we know that behavior wouldn't have been there anyway? The purpose in sharing this is simply because I could not find any good information on what to expect. I don't think one answer fits all dogs. Hopefully others with experience will share information too so we can all learn more. |
| I came across this article tonight- http://www.pet-informed-veterinary-advi ... idism.html |
| Thank you for all of your opinions. I will take time tomorrow to review the websites and start to make a decision. It does make me a bit emotional, I want to do right by my pup. I love my breeder, they are so supportive in every way. I trust my vet also. I got scared when I spoke to my vet, i did not realize some of the possible complications. Once I make a decision, I'll let you know what I do decide. I am still willing to read more of your thoughts, you guys are great! |
It is very tough when you have the vet and breeder saying different things. It does sound, though, like both your vet and breeder are available for advice, which makes things easier. It was like that for me too-I had Mady's breeder on speed dial and remember once when I called with my usual million questions, she took the call while she was trying to get five minutes peace in the bathtub. Not sure if my vet would do that. You are doing your best to make an informed decision-that really is all you can do. Lucky puppy to have someone love him so much!  |
Mady wrote: I had Mady's breeder on speed dial and remember once when I called with my usual million questions, she took the call while she was trying to get five minutes peace in the bathtub. Not sure if my vet would do that. Ohmigod, that's too funny!!!!!!!!! Thanks for the great laugh Kristine |
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